The Bears' Den--Shirogorov Showcase

[CPP]

 

[Pharmagator]

CPP...That is how to do it!

 

[Pharmagator]

CPP ... How do the Sigma and the Pero compair? And to the Cannabis?

 

[CPP]

CPP ... How do the Sigma and the Pero compair? And to the Cannabis?

In some ways the Pero and Sigma are very similar: contoured linerless carbon fiber scales with tab locks, sculpted titanium pocket clips hiding the screws to the lock bar, blades made of supersteel–the former with Vanax 37 and the latter with M390, and diminutive flipper tabs resulting in shockingly smooth action. In other ways they are very different: the profile of each is unique, the Pero's scales are smooth and the Sigma's are carved with layered concentric circles, the former's blade has a fuller and thus not a full flat grind while the latter has a full flat grind and the former's backspacer is thicker and more substantial than the latter's thin one.

The TNK Cannabis is a much more substantial knife than both: it has relatively thick titanium liners under thick Micarta scales all of which make it heavier than the Pero and Sigma, a prominent flipper tab and a two tone blade. Its profile is between that of the Pero and Sigma and it was designed to be a folding bushcraft knife and immediately feels that way whereas the other two, in spite of their size, are more for everyday use.

The pen is very different from all three

 

[Pharmagator]

Thanks! (now I want one of each...)

 

[SVTFreak]

Im really trying to talk myself out of a pen.

I've handled the cannabis. It's a very healthy knife. And smooth as glass. I was very impressed with it.

 

[SeppukuSamurai]

Hey guys,

How much do 95 Frags and 95Ts go for in the secondary market in LNIB condition?

Just picked up my first two Shiros and I'm just curious to see how I did.

 

[Stumpy72]

Hey guys, How much do 95 Frags and 95Ts go for in the secondary market in LNIB condition? Just picked up my first two Shiros and I'm just curious to see how I did.

Use the “Search” feature to cruise through the folder exchange history here for the good or bad news. I bought a 95T at full retail from R1 a little while ago and--of course--an unscathed ANIB 95T popped up here about a week later--for $250 less if memory serves me. It was depressing to see. R1 hadn’t had any 95T’s for a while and I figured it was a “grab it now or it’ll be gone for another few months" deal. Needless to say, R1 has had them continuously available since then and I’ve been thinking about having the tendons in my trigger finger severed ever since.

 

[SeppukuSamurai]

Use the “Search” feature to cruise through the folder exchange history here for the good or bad news. I bought a 95T at full retail from R1 a little while ago and--of course--an unscathed ANIB 95T popped up here about a week later--for $250 less if memory serves me. It was depressing to see. R1 hadn’t had any 95T’s for a while and I figured it was a “grab it now or it’ll be gone for another few months" deal. Needless to say, R1 has had them continuously available since then and I’ve been thinking about having the tendons in my trigger finger severed ever since.

Hey Stumpy,

I'm well aware of the search feature here. I've been around for a few years and it would be almost criminal if I weren't.

The reason I ask you all here is that 8/10 sale threads have the asking price replaced with "sold" and even those that do not are not reliable as most deals finish behind the scenes at a lesser price than is originally asked. Furthermore Shiros are unique in that they've existed in sort of a superficial price bubble due to the number of knives in the wild and small amount of authorized dealers. Prices have varied wildly over the past couple of years. Because of these reasons, I wanted to hear what you guys collectively felt they warrant on the secondary market through your dealings with these knives.

The only rule I attempt to adhere to when it comes to my outrageous knife habit is I try to always make sure that I can break even if I happen to not like the knife or end up needing to sell it for whatever reason. It allows me to rationalize my addiction I suppose, lol.

 

[Stumpy72]

Hey Stumpy, I'm well aware of the search feature here. I've been around for a few years and it would be almost criminal if I weren’t. The reason I ask you all here is that 8/10 sale threads have the asking price replaced with "sold" and even those that do not are not reliable as most deals finish behind the scenes at a lesser price than is originally asked......

Sorry--I’m still twisted about having screwed myself out of $200-$250 with my premature trigger finger. I didn’t mean to be condescending and I’d honestly forgotten about that annoying “$OLD” thing that makes most old exchange threads worthless for price research purposes. Anyhow--I saw an ANIB 95T go through here a while ago for $200-$250 under R1 retail. It went through so fast that I really doubt there was enough time for any back-and-forth price negotiations. It was an R1 knife, too--it had their card and not the Russian paperwork. I’ve also seen a few Neon UltraLights go through, but they were almost all within $50-$75 of R1 retail, so I didn’t see any killer deals with those. That’s about the extent of my shallow insights.

 

[SeppukuSamurai]

Sorry--I’m still twisted about having screwed myself out of $200-$250 with my premature trigger finger. I didn’t mean to be condescending and I’d honestly forgotten about that annoying “$OLD” thing that makes most old exchange threads worthless for price research purposes. Anyhow--I saw an ANIB 95T go through here a while ago for $200-$250 under R1 retail. It went through so fast that I really doubt there was enough time for any back-and-forth price negotiations. It was an R1 knife, too--it had their card and not the Russian paperwork. I’ve also seen a few Neon UltraLights go through, but they were almost all within $50-$75 of R1 retail, so I didn’t see any killer deals with those. That’s about the extent of my shallow insights.

No offense taken. The practice annoys me as well but I dont think it's going anywhere.

Can't tell you how many times I've been in those shoes. Trying my best to avoid making the same mistake. I came dangerously close to buying one of these full retail....very happy that I waited. I ended up paying around what you saw the one selling for, which it seems was a good move.

Can't wait to get then in. Have heard so many good things for so many years that I'm nearly certain I've found myself at least one keeper.

 

[Stumpy72]

.....Can't tell you how many times I've been in those shoes. Trying my best to avoid making the same mistake. I came dangerously close to buying one of these full retail....

I’m presently fighting with the impulse to buy a new M390 111 from R1 and I’m going through all the motions. “How much do I really need this knife?” “How much will I really use it?” “What can this one do that others I already have really can’t do?” “Do I really need another Shiro (this would be #3) or might an 'ordinary mortal' substitute actually suffice?” It’s all really very dramatic.

At any rate, after my 95T experience I’m not going to pop prematurely this time. I’ve sworn I’m going to hang back and watch the exchange until my HS-age granddaughters are out of college. Now I’ll see how this one goes...

 

[SeppukuSamurai]

Haha, stages I know all too well. I will keep an eye out for you.

I check the forums every now and then. You know, 20-30 times a day...

 

[ChazzyP]

SeppukuSamurai , as you have noted Shiro prices can vary widely on the secondary market. The price bubble you referred to exists as there are really only two authorized dealers worldwide--R1 (not registered here at BF) is the only authorized outlet for North American sales; and Shirogorov itself, which sells directly to the rest of the world, but not to North America. On top of that, of course, is ME with their Frag F95 exclusive and now their brand new NL which is really an R series or 3 Bears in monkey's clothing and not to be confused with the 1 Bear NL that sells for about $400 less. (Also looks like a sweet knife .)

On top of those is at least one American dealer that is currently selling at prices equivalent to R1 that must be buying Shiros outside NA at Workshop prices (way lower than authorized prices here). There are a couple Russian online dealers, neither of which are Shirogorov authorized, that are buying their knives retail from the Workshop and marking them up at least a couple hundred more than the NA authorized dealer. There are also a number of individual Russian sellers of new knives on the Exchange (and the Cove), one of whom--Vladimir_K--is a BF registered dealer. V_K and another have good prices, less than the authorized NA dealer and several others have prices about the same as R1.

The point of all this, is that the price of a new F95R, say might vary by as much as $350-400 depending upon where it was sourced when new. Consequently, the secondary market price from the original owner will reflect where the knife was purchased. An LNIB F95R (or R series T) at about 80% of the R1 price would be a decent deal and you would likely break even on it less fees, insurance, and shipping. The same would go for your 95 Frag. Of course, one could find an F95R on the Exchange for close to NA retail if the seller had bought it from one of the over-priced, unauthorized Russian online dealers. One could also find an F95R on the Exchange for under 70% of NA retail, as I found mine, because the seller had bought his knife from V_K sourced from Russia.

I've been very patient in acquiring the seven Shiros I've purchased (I still have six), having sourced my new ones off the Exchange from V_K and another Russian dealer at about 85% of NA retail. My others were all "used" though a couple were LNIB and varied in price from just below 65% for a user Hati to about 85% for a BNIB NeOn UL of NA retail.

If you find yourself wanting to sell your Shiros (and I honestly can't imagine why you would ), patience is the key in getting your price as long as the knife is in excellent condition, given the wide variation in secondary market prices.

 

[ChazzyP]

...and because I mentioned my F95R, and because there's no such thing as too many Shiro pics, and because I wouldn't want my friend CPP to have the only pics on this page, no matter how excellent his knives and pics are...

 

[SVTFreak]

I posted in the wanted area, figured I'd mention it here. I'm looking for a Hati to add to my f95. Ideally, m390, washers, black g10 or CF. I am willing to consider other options.

 

[Officer's Match]

Chazzy, I hadn't seen that ME G10 NL - I like it. The NL's have their weight reduction via exterior milled pockets for the inlay, but that one had cosmetic milled grooves on the interior too.

 

[ChazzyP]

Chazzy, I hadn't seen that ME G10 NL - I like it. The NL's have their weight reduction via exterior milled pockets for the inlay, but that one had cosmetic milled grooves on the interior too.

I hadn't seen it until last night, OM, when I was researching the ME Frag 95 while responding to SeppukuSamurai 's inquiries. I really like the Micarta on the original NL like yours, but the G10 on that ME knife should be plenty grippy with their signature milled pattern. Like I said above, the ME knife is basically an R series version of the NL and makes me wonder if we will soon see an F95NLR coming out of the workshop with various inlays along with the other R series improvements--interior milled pockets, MRBS, underlay washers, and blade jimping.

I really like that Shirogorov is broadening their product lines by producing knives of the same model in both the 1 and 3 Bears lines as well as adding different options for knives like the 111 which offer a range of pricing based on features while still maintaining the high quality design and construction we've come to expect from the Workshop.

On a related note, I'm still on the list for the NL World tour and expect I may have my turn with the knife in a couple months. There was a detour along the way as the knife had to go back to the Workshop for a detent ball re-set and then seemed to go dark as it passed through a few sets of hands on the Left Coast and through Las Vegas. I last read that it's in Elko, Nev so it's slowly working its way across the US.

 

[CPP]

To illustrate the variance of Shiro prices on the secondary market I give you a screen shot of three Hokkaidos all in new or excellent condition (it was $1,700 through the Recon 1 Lottery):

 

[CPP]

Currently there are three frag pattern F95s for sale at the same site each for $1,050.00.