The Bears' Den--Shirogorov Showcase

I should have them pretty fast....shockingly they were shipped USPS Express (which apparently is 2 day vs 1 day now) but signature required.....and I'm out of town this weekend. I guess Monday will be a fun day.
 
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Do they not do the 1, 2, 3-bear markings on the boxes anymore?
 
I have not seen Bears #s markings on boxes. Only knives sourced from the Workshop use the Bears designations-- not those from R1. My F95R from Russia came with the white card with 3 Bear logos on it.

BTW, 111s are considered to be 2 Bears knives.

Edit: Sweet 111s, F falar . :cool::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
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Ahh, ok. I've seen the references and wondered what the heck people were talking about and found a post on USN (since a Shirogorov rep posts there) where that system is laid out and it referenced box markings.
 
falar said:
Ahh, ok. I've seen the references and wondered what the heck people were talking about and found a post on USN (since a Shirogorov rep posts there) where that system is laid out and it referenced box markings.
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I recall that post from Tom, and went over to USN and found it in the compilation sticky at their Shiro pages there. He does indeed mention Bears markings on the box ends but, again, I've not seen those--just the white cards. He and I had PM'd some and he wrote me more info about the Bears designations that I quoted in an earlier Bears' Den post here. FWIW.
 
Hmm that post makes it look like most of the new stuff would be "3-bears" now since most are MRBS with the washers. I guess it is just a somewhat interesting side note anyway at this point. I just saw all the references at first and was thinking "what on earth are they talking about".

I feel like I'm getting the hang of everything else now though. The other 3 main knives are all 95mm (although I saw a youtube video where a dude measured an F3 and it was definitely a hair under 4"):

F95 is a full titanium frame lock. Current version is "R" for renewed, but there is an R18 and R19 with different scales and the F95T has the "turtle" texture.
F3 is a liner lock, but not like the 111 and more of a traditional liner lock.
Hati is titanium frame lock but the "show" side can be had in a few different materials, "Hati" being short for half titanium.

Then I guess there is the small stuff (no interest here, but learned along the way) at 3.25"

Neon is a full titanium frame lock, sort of a 3.25" F95
HatiON is a titanium frame lock with a "show" side that can be had in a few different materials, the name being a play on the Hati and Neon names.

On USN I saw what I assume was just a small release last year of Custom Division 111s in full titanium with a really cool pattern. Man, I wish I had seen those when they came out.
 
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falar said:
Hmm that post makes it look like most of the new stuff would be "3-bears" now since most are MRBS with the washers. I guess it is just a somewhat interesting side note anyway at this point. I just saw all the references at first and was thinking "what on earth are they talking about".

I feel like I'm getting the hang of everything else now though. The other 3 main knives are all 95mm (although I saw a youtube video where a dude measured an F3 and it was definitely a hair under 4"):

F95 is a full titanium frame lock. Current version is "R" for renewed, but there is an R18 and R19 with different scales and the F95T has the "turtle" texture.
F3 is a liner lock, but not like the 111 and more of a traditional liner lock.
Hati is titanium frame lock but the "show" side can be had in a few different materials, "Hati" being short for half titanium.

Then I guess there is the small stuff (no interest here, but learned along the way) at 3.25"

Neon is a full titanium frame lock, sort of a 3.25" F95
HatiON is a titanium frame lock with a "show" side that can be had in a few different materials, the name being a play on the Hati and Neon names.

On USN I saw what I assume was just a small release last year of Custom Division 111s in full titanium with a really cool pattern. Man, I wish I had seen those when they came out.
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By Jove!!! I think he's got it!

(and at the same time as me)
 
That's generallly correct, F falar , but there's more going on than just 3 Bears production as there are F3s and at least the F95NL being produced in the 1 Bear category. Those are excellent values at around 700 bucks, North American pricing. NeOns/HatiOns and 111s are all considered to be 2 Bears despite them having MRBS pivots. I know the 111s have underlay washers on the show sides as there are no liners opposite the locking sides and assume the HatiOns are the same.

Your purchase of two different versions of the 111 is a great example of how Shirogorov is broadening the options (and price points) within specific models to include knives with fewer features and more modest materials while maintaining the same high level of quality. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: for 3 categories of serial production Bears.
 
ChazzyP said:
That's generallly correct, F falar , but there's more going on than just 3 Bears production as there are F3s and at least the F95NL being produced in the 1 Bear category. Those are excellent values at around 700 bucks, North American pricing. NeOns/HatiOns and 111s are all considered to be 2 Bears despite them having MRBS pivots. I know the 111s have underlay washers on the show sides as there are no liners opposite the locking sides and assume the HatiOns are the same.

Your purchase of two different versions of the 111 is a great example of how Shirogorov is broadening the options (and price points) within specific models to include knives with fewer features and more modest materials while maintaining the same high level of quality. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: for 3 categories of serial production Bears.
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I'm sitting here playing with both as I surf the internet.

The price difference between these two knives I just bought is $300. Quite a large difference, so obviously the cheaper one will have more "value". $800 isn't so outlandish IMO, as I have several Hinderer/Hoback/etc that are already pretty much in that ballpark and are also "production" knives. If we could buy direct from Shirogorov like the rest of the world and pay 200 less across the board I am sure there would be a lot less "overpriced" talk. I usually don't like talking price though because it is so different for everyone but I maintain that if you can afford a 250 dollar knife, you can afford a 1000 dollar knife. You just might not be able to buy that 1000 dollar knife "right now". If you don't like it, don't buy it is what I always say.

As far as why I tried both is simple: I have never been able to bring myself to EDC or use any CF knife in any real amount. I know the science behind it and that it is a strong material but to me CF = art knife. That is just a personal perception and I heavily prefer full titanium framelocks. In fact, I had been narrowing my collection down recently to just that but finally decided I'd stared at the 111s long enough that I had to have one as I love 4" plus flippers and there aren't many out there and this knife looks so good and gets so many good reviews. Just by looking at the blades without ever using one I can tell that with their grind and geometry and steels used the cutting will be insane while still being pointy enough to be used as a weapon (if that's what you're looking for in a knife, I know it matters to me).

G10 to me is a more "working man" material than Carbon Fiber. It has a more tactile texture for a more secure grip, feels more dense, and doesn't look as good so there are no qualms when I use the heck out of it. I honestly prefer the plain blade too (although those custom division knives where the groove is a cutout instead are SIIICK and would be my preference) vs the groove but would have rather had M390 vs Elmax. I love grey though and thought it was cool that they had a grey G10 model available. I EDC'd a G10 liner lock for 7 years and know what it will look like afterwards and feel like during.

I haven't taken anything apart yet so didn't know these were only half-washered, that is a strange decision. So are the MRBS captured now? I can't seem to get an answer on that just searching around.

The action is quite different on these two knives. The CF one falls shut like no other knife I've had, you better get your thumb out of there. The G10 one you have to shake quite a bit to get it to do so. They are identical on opening with a strong (but not artificially so like some ZTs) detent, possibly the strongest detents I've ever felt. I read the post about "two slender ladies" performing the flip test at Shiro during QC and though man, I hope the detent is still still strong. Well compared to what I've been flipping lately it is absolutely strong as hell. Those "slender ladies" must have strong index fingers! I know my wife couldn't flip these.
 
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And here I always thought hati was either named after one of Saturn's moons, named after a giant wolf of Norse myth, or a small groundhog like animal in Russia. You learn something every day.
 
I'm about to pull the trigger on a F95. Does the F95NL have the scales milled like the F95R's? They are both listed at 4.7ozs.
Thanks!
 
Nautique said:
I'm about to pull the trigger on a F95. Does the F95NL have the scales milled like the F95R's? They are both listed at 4.7ozs.
Thanks!
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No internal milling on NL. It's lightened by the milling to accept the Micarta inlays.

Edit: Just weighed my F95R and it comes in at 4.5 oz. Mine has the thinner 3.5 mm blade stock, though I don't know that'd account for a .2 oz difference
 
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Interesting thoughts, F falar , and I get what you're saying about G10 vs CF. I don't necessarily look at CF the same way, though, as my most-carried work user over the years has been my (perhaps inaptly-named) KnifeArt Sebenza 21 in CF. It's light and easy going in and out of pocket and its good grip is more a matter of fit to my hand than material tactility. I do like all Ti framelocks as well as G10-handled knives, too. My two Micarta-inlayed CRKs are super in hand too. Hell, I just like knives, ya know?

@TRfromMT has in his sig line, "For me, the HANDLE is the business end", and I understand what he's saying. My mitts are much the worse for wear having worked construction as a carpenter for almost fifty years, and I like big knives as much or more for their generous handles as for their large-sized blades. The whole close-as-possible handle-to-blade ratio thing is the opposite of what I'm looking for. Hence, knife handle shapes that fill and nest just right in my beat-up mitts are my difference makers, hence my appreciation for my CRKs, RHKs, 710s, AFCKs, Millies, Manixes, Superleaf, Olamic 247, Shiros, and others. For me, handle shape and size, rather than material is the deciding factor.

On another note, regarding the underlay washers on 111s and HatiOns, I figure they're on the show sides of those two models to prevent wear to the CF, G10, or other non-metallic material. You can see the HatiOn washer at post #11 of @CPP 's excellent NeOn review/appreciation thread. Here's a pic of my 111 broken down showing the washer on the CF side.

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My 111 flipped well, but was not at all drop-shutty when I received it and didn't break in much along the way. Last year I went through all my Shiros, disassembling, cleaning, interior polishing, de-burring the bearing cages, and re-lubing with W10 NanoOil. I also re-profiled the 111 to around 16 DPS with a 20 DPS micro-bevel and it's now a terrifyingly sharp, free-dropping thumb guillotine. :eek:
 
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My big thing on handle material is I that above all else I don't like the two sides to be different which is why the 111 can work for me. I love the maximized blade to handle ratio thing though and don't think it robs from ergonomics. When the blade is out all that matters is that the handle is sculpted to your hand. And I love this 111 handle so far, I hate knives that you have to grip "just right" to get your hands in a good spot because they are so small. I also have been purging sub-4" knives from my collection lately for that reason (I plan on keeping just my Kwaiback) because I love a knife I can pick up, grab just about anywhere to flip, and then again grab just about anywhere to use. I know the best selling folders are probably the 3.4-3.6 range but those always have serious handle size compromises, at least the ones that I've held.

I'll see if I can take a video later of the action on my CF 111. It is amazing.
 
A
ChazzyP said:
No internal milling on NL. It's lightened by the milling to accept the Micarta inlays.

Edit: Just weighed my F95R and it comes in at 4.5 oz. Mine has the thinner 3.5 mm blade stock, though I don't know that'd account for a .2 oz difference
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Appreciate it!
Even though I'm a micarta slut, I just ordered a bronze F95R19. Obligatory pics when it arrives.
 
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