THE Hollow Handle Knife Thread

Hello all I am new here. I recently had a knife come into my collection that I don't know much about. It's a Robert Parrish 8" survival. Serial number shows 84 production. Any help is always appreciated.
 
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Hello all I am new here. I recently had a knife come into my collection that I don't know much about. It's a Robert Parrish 8" survival. Serial number shows 84 production. Any help is always appreciated.

If your knife is in good condition with an original sheath it is worth quite a bit of money. I am not sure if I can talk value in this forum.Mr. Parrish has not made them in quite some time and they were one of the best survival knives of their time. It is collectable.
 
It is in 90% plus condition but the sheath could stand some cleaning. I have been told it is a fairly rare knife to have came across. Just been trying to decide whether to keep it or Ebay it. It does not really fit in my collection but there is something about how solid it feels I am tempted to take it on a camping trip and give it a work out.
 
It is in 90% plus condition but the sheath could stand some cleaning. I have been told it is a fairly rare knife to have came across. Just been trying to decide whether to keep it or Ebay it. It does not really fit in my collection but there is something about how solid it feels I am tempted to take it on a camping trip and give it a work out.

I have two of them. If you want it to keep it's value do not use it. Any more conversation of this nature should be through Private message it does not fit with the intent of this thread.
 
I am really looking for more info about Robert Parrish and his knives. Value is neither here nor there. I just don't know really anything about him and his knives and I'm curious. I use to have a Randall Mod 18B I used extensively as a woods knife and to be honest this knife has a more solid feel to it.
 
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Speaking of cheap crap getting some hard use: Here's a Chinese hollow handle that was used to kill a 525 pound bear, and saved the owner's life... And yes I checked that the knife on the cover is the actual same type of knife used, right down to the color of the (all plastic?) handle... (And unknown mystery steel and spotty unknown heat treatment that current Chinese junk is known for)

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Quite frankly, I would rather have the bear eat me than being known on National News as the type of discerning person who would consider purchasing this kind of knife... Better to feed a bear once than to roll in my grave for all eternity...

Gaston

I would have to agree with you, there.
 
A Randall Model 18 has a more solid feel than a Parrish? That is surprising to hear. The Randall is probably thinner edged, if likely duller-pointed.

The Parrish is a very desirable knife. Spear point designs are rare yet very functional. I heard the Heat treating is on the softer RC 55 side like the Carbon Randalls (which is not that good for 440C in my opinion)...

I've just got my Farid First Blood, and compared its saw in wood to the others, but I'll get to that later.

Farid First Blood Prototype, first impressions:

-Point thickness is stronger than a Lile, as I hoped from this being based on a re-ground FB point: Blade length is 8.9", so not a big loss in length.
-Blade thickness is only 0.23", not the usually claimed 0.25": This is bad as it emphasizes the blade-light feel (but it still doesn't feel as bad as the Randall Model 18, for some reason).
-The pommel is superb but enormously heavy, by far the heaviest pommel of any Survival Knife I have ever seen: It is at least twice as heavy as the aluminium pommel of the giant 10.5" RJ Martin Blackbird...
-The dry compass is superb, better-looking than any of the other liquid compasses I have.
-The edge is the usual awful 20° per side or so, so for tests that figure will have to be halved... Fortunately the steel is 440C.
-Sheath is superb, almost oversized: Unfortunately it has about 0.25" of dead space at the tip, which always annoys me...

As a result of all this, the balance point is a full 1/2" behind the guard, largely due to the monstrously heavy Farid pommel (Lile's pommel was aluminium, so maybe quite different: I would prefer a small diameter hollowed-out pommel in steel). Handle compartment size is about the same size as the RJ Martin, but quite inferior to the Neeley SA9's huge capacity: 2.7" Farid and RJ Martin, compared to 4" length, on a larger diameter, for the Neeley SA9!!! The Randall 18 is around the same as the RJ and Farid in length, but larger in diameter (even 1 mm can make a big difference).

In comparison: Farid edge thickness is 1.2 mm at the top of the bevel (about 0.047" at around 20° per side) so potential sharpness is definitely higher than on the Neeley SA9 which is at 1.59 mm (0.062"), even if with enormous re-profiling the Neeley can still be "saved": The RJ Martin Blackbird and Chris Reeves Jereboam Mk II are both similar at 1 mm or 0.040", so have a higher sharpness potential, but not by much, compared to the Farid. Of note is the Chris Reeves grows considerably duller and thicker in the forward quarter of the edge, severely reducing its useability performance, so generally I would rate the Farid higher than the Chris Reeves, and the RJ Martin just slightly better than the Farid.

Handle confort: CR highest, Neeley SA9 almost as good, Farid excellent as well, RJ martin slightly behind. Coarser cord doesn't seem to help, but knurling does.

The quick saw test of the Farid yielded the following overall ranking results for these four knives: 1-TOPS Hellion, 2-Neeley SA9 3-Farid First Blood 4-RJ Martin Blackbird

It breaks down as follows (all single straight cuts):

2" diameter maple or less:

1st: TOPS Hellion: Near through straight cut, 1.5-1.75" with little effort.
2nd: Neeley SA9: Near through straight cut, 1.5-1.75", with more effort but acceptable.
3rd: Farid First Blood: 0.75-1", more effort due to tendency to hang up on its big teeth, and very short available stroke.
4th: RJ martin Backbird: 0.5-0.75", huge effort to get to 0.75", push stroke a disadvantage.

3" diameter Maple and over

1st: TOPS Hellion: 1/2" or more with little effort, but stops dead.
2nd: Faris FB: 1/2" or more but with much more effort (note the two angled cuts method yields no 30-50% gain over what I list here on straight cuts, because of the hanging up tendency on the "peak" inside the cut. Two angled cuts basically more than double the effort, so are not really worth it).
3rd and 4th: RJ Martin and Neeley SA9, the SA9 being slightly worse due to the teeths "sliding", wasting effort, both stop at a miserable 1/4".

If I were to rank the knives overall, I would place them as such, bearing in mind I include here cosmetic and personal bias considerations, and most importantly that only the sharpness I achieved is considered, meaning what is offered from the box is thrown out the window...:

1-TOPS Hellion: Best sawback, best item capacity in two sheath pockets, best handle with no rolling issue. Best chopping confort due to blade tip weight. Edge thickness is a weak point, but can be bevelled thinner to around 12° per side. A better sharpener in the big pocket can compensate to some extent for the thicker 1.8 mm (0.070") edge bevel base... Worst stabbing ability, but still able to stab... This is the only knife heavy enough at both extremities to be used as a non-lethal bludgeon: Could be a useful non-lethal consideration...

2-Neeley SA9 (note I don't recommend this knife at all because of the initial edge thickness): Best, easiest to carry sheath (extraordinary), best hollow handle diameter/pommel design. Acceptable sawback. Biggest handle capacity of any hollow handle, despite slim handle design... Again the weak point is the edge thickness, but I circumvented that here by making a hugely tall assymetrical bevel on the right side... Best workmanship of any knife I have ever owned: Perfect finish and secondary grind line symmetry. Best overall design if carrying ease is considered. The 440C steel seems just superb in performance, rust resistance and edge-holding, even above other 440C knives I have owned.[EDIT: Knock that one off the list, the sharpness just sucks too much]

3-RJ Martin Blackbird: Best point design. Very convenient and lightweight sheath, but it scratches the blade regularly, as all Kydex sheaths do: Replacing it with a leather sheath is not worth it, as the knife is so bulky, a leather sheath would worsen its worse caracteristic (note I prefer to carry fixed blades inside the pants). Edge is quite good in geometry, the superb hollow grind helps, but 0.040" is far from the Randall 0.020" standard. Excellent chopping performance. Overwhelmingly heavy but acceptably bulky: I would have to carry it all day to know if it is possible to carry its 30 ounces for long periods...

The Kydex sheath scratches the blade badly and consistently, and this could have been avoided by providing a nylon strip as a "bearing surface" inside the plastic: This cosmetic disaster is a predictable consequence of most "moulded-on" Kydex sheaths and I have never understood their popularity for that reason alone... The notion of "moulding on" leaves no room for dust or dirt, making the scratching far worse, so the very idea this is a desirable concept is a complete mystery to me...

A bad point (for me) in this knife is the S30V steel: It is hard to sharpen, and showed some very slight "haze" staining while washing it: It is stainless but inferior to 440C in stain resistance. I did not test edge-holding yet, but the Neeley's 440C seemed easier to sharpen and more stain resistant, at a similar hardness.

4-Farid First Blood: Excellent sheath, if a bit bulky. Not bad or great in any respect, but comparable in quality to the Neeley SA9 or RJ Martin. 440C steel.

5-Randall Model 18: Absolutely superior sharpness and edge geometry, but indifferent workmanship (mine was croocked in 3 different ways, some outrageous). Initially came with non-functional combat training-safe point (that is unfortunately not a metaphor, and was even more true for my 18-style Model 14 as well)... Surprisingly good chopping performance due to the thin slightly hollow-ground edge, but the extremely light blade means it "bucks up" on impact, making it very unconfortable to use, even causing blisters on the last finger in barely seconds, especially if wrapped with cord... Saw is useless even for producing wood dust... Bulky guard and bulky pommel. Fair handle capacity, especially the diameter. 0-1 steel stains or rusts incredibly fast: Get the 440B version at all costs...

6- Chris Reeves Jereboam Mk II: Excellent chopping performance. Superior handle confort. Extremely small diameter handle compartment, making it almost useless... Very unpleasant to carry inside the pants for some reason: It is both slim and heavy, a bad combination... The edge geometry grows very poor towards the front quarter. Because the blade is so thick at the secondary grind line, which carries the huge (0.27"?) full blade thickness way, way forward -while that secondary grind line does not rise at all, unlike the Neeley SA9-, the result of the combination of all this is that it is almost impossible to reprofile the front quarter of the edge without ruining the knife cosmetically... This is in part due to the fact the blade is fairly narrow, which worsens this problem. This knife has no finesse of use in its tip at all, unless, maybe, if heavily reprofiled by a gifted professional sharpener, which result I am still waiting for... The Neeley SA9 had a similar problem, but not as bad, because its secondary blade-side grind line "climbs" a little towards the front, and so the edge thickness doesn't change as much: It is thick and horrible all over, but at least it is roughly the same, while the Reeves is thinner near the handle, but changes more towards the tip, which is worse... It is a bit hard to explain... My TOPS Hellion was also thick near the tip, but once re-ground it is now incredibly sharp: The geometry of the Reeves makes this an unlikely job to look anywhere near as neat as the simple pair of straight lines on the Hellion...: The Jereboam tip can be made sharp, but it likely will look terrible and not "fit" with the rest of the knife's grinding...

The Reeve's black paint finish looks very good and wears evenly, but keep in mind that if you wipe a white paper towel, it leaves black smudge marks in it: This means if you process food you inevitably put black enamel paint in your food... Although the Hellion's paint is not as tough and doesn't look as good, it does not do that because it is not a "powder" coating... Another way that something that looks good can be a bad thing: I recommend Cerkoating it instead...

Another not so good point on the CR is that the A-2 steel is tempered quite soft, at RC 55, giving demonstrably poor edge-holding, and yet this doesn't seem to help the ease of sharpening at all... Not only that, but the steel is -apparently- not particularly resistant to fracture despite this disadvantage.

The Chris Reeves is an example of how a winning-looking concept can still hide practical problems that make you hate it in the long run...

Anyway, a bit long-winded as usual... I'll post some pics later... :)

Gaston
 
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I may have phrased my earlier post wrong. I meant to say the Parrish feels far more solid than the Randall. Also thank you for the info this is the kind of stuff I was looking for. My collection is smaller but used extensively outdoors. This knife just is different from my normal, my favorite being a custom Kephart design made for me by a friend years ago. I tend to stay below 6" blades.
 




Just for clarity, people in the past have commented on the profile of my FB blade. Some people have compared the profile to a certain numbered Lile FB (one of the first 100) , some have compared it to others.
Bottom line is, the limited edition Lile numbered knives (one of the first 100) all had small differences, they were hand ground, handmade knives, so you would expect small differences anyway. The people who throughout a number of years have been saying (re-ground tip), (compared one knife against another) , (one maker against another on the design of the blade profile) etc, unfortunately you will not find any answers because when you do a comparison (a fine comparison) against all 100 numbered Lile FB knives you will not find two which are exactly the same to the last little detail, they are called ‘custom knives’.
I hope the above information helps.
F
 
Thanks Farid for the clarification.

It seemed ood that it would be based on a re-ground tip when the length is 8.9", which is so close to 9": A broken tip + re-grinding would be more than .1".

Great work on the knife: I am very happy with it. The leather is really great too.

Gaston
 
Ever notice how in the pic of the #5 LILE FB shows the knife incorrctly sheathed... :)

Silly auctioneers... LOL

Yep, Lile used a Waltham in the original 13 knives, but then switched to the Marbles compass with the meridian line on the lens (#8 in my photo) for the limited edition 100 knives that followed. He continued to use the Marbles compass in the Sly II and Rambo II knives until it was no longer available in the mid to late 80s. Then he switched to an imported liquid-filled compass.

Here is #5 of 13. Knives #1 thru #6 were used in the movie. This one sold for $90,000 a couple of years ago. Note the Waltham compass in the bottom photo.

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You are absolutely right: Good catch! Must not do wonders for the sheath's interior...

This must the one expensive knife among all that comes the most often in a left handed sheath version... I was considering one but I hate being saddled with a left hand sheath at that price...

The original sheath's stone is really enormous: It must have been a quick expedient...

Gaston
 
I agree Gaston. Appears to be two stones glued together and one shorter than the other.
 
You are again right! It's visible right in the video... One is darker and the other lighter, the lighter one being fine and the darker one coarse I suppose... And one is indeed shorter than the other! You have an eye on you...

This is all very unusual, and shows Lile was maybe trying to outdo the Randall's single stone... Also another reason would be that I hear D-2 is hard as heck to sharpen... (And I doubt it holds an edge much better than 440C, thought the claim is usually made that it does...)

The resulting huge pouch kind of looks odd, and you'll note that it is the one item that is almost never duplicated in modern copies, along with the snapless sheath... The knife itself does not look dated in any way, but I do hope the tip thickness varies towards thicker on some...

Gaston
 
Thanks. :)

I think that the First Blood sheath design is WAY underated. IMO, the double stone was to simply make it look more noticeable, considering the sheath itself recieved a lot f screen time (in view of the audience). Any fan would be lying if they did not admit to looking for the sheath/knife at any opportunity during the film.

A single stone may have been too 'plain' looking. Also note that the sheath never had a retaining strap. Again I think to possibly make it stand put from the norm.

The knife/sheath is as much the movie star as was Sly.
 
Lots of confusion.
Enjoy the knife Gaston.






Thanks Farid for the clarification.

It seemed ood that it would be based on a re-ground tip when the length is 8.9", which is so close to 9": A broken tip + re-grinding would be more than .1".

Great work on the knife: I am very happy with it. The leather is really great too.

Gaston
 
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I finally got back my re-worked Wall "First Blood" style from Razoredgeknives... Josh offered a "zero convex edge", and I thought why not? The point ended up a tad on the thin side, but "swelled", so strong enough, and perfectly symmetrical, especially the clip grinds which are improved over the original in symmetry and neatness. I just love the overall result: The finish is far finer than what the original knife had, and the sharpness is the most vicious of all my knives...: A bit too thin an edge, but the convexing does make a thin edge stronger, and I like the flawless perfection of the result so much (compared to the inevitable slight assymetries of V-Edges) that I now actually intend to have all my future work done in this way by Josh...

The teeth have been re-ground quite well, but I fear trying them out will scratch the now-flawless finish, so I will wait a while before trying out the saw...

I replaced the compass with another wet one, but without bubble... The sheath's "roughback" backside has been waterproofed by smearing with Future, as one of the problems of inside the pants carry, for carbon steel knives, is that sweat goes through and stains the blade... This is far less of a problem with 440C...

The guard had to be cut down to allow Josh to work on the last two teeths... He did a great job of bevelling the brass just right. It looks even more unique now I think:

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I love the fact that it is so different from any other hollow handle, especially the smaller handle diameter... The O-1 steel is a big downer for inside-the-pants carry on a hot day, so hopefully the waterproofed leather will work...

Below are the knives I will compare soon in a chopping contest, with a bit of whittling and maybe batoning: I've never seen any serious comparisons of these knives anywhere: My main goal is to compare various geometries and handle shapes, and I will try to estimate how well the edge holds (though I have no confidence in a precise determination of this, accross different knives sharpened differently). If cosmetic damage is incurred, I now know I can trust Josh to re-finish them nicely, which is why some of them are included here (The Neeley's handle is straight, it's just the lens here...):

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The curious thing I have observed with 7.4-9.5" knives so far is that they all chop roughly the same: Rather on the poor side, unfortunately... The big difference is actually in handle confort: A 9.5" Trailmaster will not chop significantly better than a 7.5" Recon Scout of the same edge geometry (I've heard claims of a 30% or 50% difference, which I am sure is completely false): The real difference is the 9.5" knife will "buck" tip up less, vibrate less, and generally "bite" your hand much less: That is where most of the "real" performance difference lies...

In the photo I have ordered the the ranking, top to bottom, in how I think they will perform in actual wood chopping performance, but the differences in chopping are likely so small that the ranking by handle confort will probably be quite different, and far more significant... I actually think this is where hollow handles will score...

Gaston
 
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So I finally did my "Survival Chopping" contest, over two days with more to come, with some very surprising results... There is still more testing to be done, but two knives are incoming from re-profiling, and I intend to send two or 3 more on a round trip, so a postscript to this will be done. I will also start a dedicated thread as I don't want to "hog" too much space here... I'll try to offer a simpler condensed account.

So here is an updated line-up, unfortunately not accurate, as I did not test the Model 18, and chose instead to add the Neeley SA9 which I expected would perform poorly, but whose smaller diameter handle with much smoother cord I knew would prove less awesomely destructive to my hand... I cannot take the 350 cord off the 18, as it is glued in several places, and it "pommel down" bite is just too destructive to my hand considering the large number of knives I wanted to test...: It would instantly ruin my hand for all the others, and there was a lot of chopping to do...

(I did not include the RJ Martin Blackbird because I managed to remove the horrible scratches the Kydex sheath did to its blade, and this to perfection even under a strong light...: It turns out the way the knife is hollow ground, with a satin finish with very deep, yet very regular and pleasing vertical striations, is ideal to use sandpaper in a vertical motion: Because the "base" vertical grind lines are so deep, they will not allow your vertical sandpaper marks to come through, but by using vertical swipes the sandpaper will elliminate completely the horizontal scratches from the foreign particles in the Kydex...

After washing the sheath from any errant hard particle, I would rather simply leave it alone in its perfection now... Ideally a leather sheath would solve these horrible Kydex issues, but the knife is actually confortable inside the pants now because of its slimmer Kydex sheath wrapped in nylon, and I know a leather sheath for this thing would simply be a monstrous item... I was also not impressed in the field by the sponge-like shape-loosening nature of leather that is not truly huge in thickness -the thick Farid leather sheath really scored there-... Furthermore, when comparing leather to Kydex for inside the pant carry, it is evident it takes at least a double layer of leather to fully prevent sweat from getting to the blade...)

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The most important thing I found out is really rather weird: It has to do with a phenomenon that is more pronounced on hollow handles, but is to my mind somewhat universal, in different ways, to all 9" class knives (or less) used as chopping implements: The violence to the hand takes an unexpected form I have never heard described: I call it the "Pommel Down Bite", and the fact hollow handles don't taper may make this more pronounced.

Curiously, now that I am aware of the the "hollow Handle Roll", that phenomenon never occurred once...

Basically the "Pommel Down Bite" is the reaction any knife has when the blade is abruptly stopped by wood forward of the guard: Within the hand, the pommel is what snaps down with the most violence, no matter how the knife is held... The result is the most affected area is shown where the band aid is on my hand, the knife being in a position to illustrate (and exaggerate) its reaction to hitting the wood...:

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This reaction it turns out is crucial to how the knife will perform: It is not the performance itself however: The Randall Model 18 has absolutely terrible "Pommel Down Bite", at least with big cord around it, yet its chopping performance is surprisingly good, thanks to the thin edge and hollow grind...: If you make the mistake of putting any "largeish" cord around its handle, it will injure your hand in seconds, depending on how tightly it is wrapped, and how "hard" the cord surface is...

This is why, although the Neeley SA9's handle appears to have cord that is too smooth, ultra-fine cord is in fact the way to go for these knives... Rougher cord does feel better for "normal" whittling and general use. It also conveys an impression of greater security and quality. But at the real "emergency" chopping use that the larger size implies, the actual cost of this rougher cord is far, far too great in my opinion... I think even callused hands would get chewed up in the area of my band-aid, because the cylindrical shape simply does not conform to the hand there: "Normal" non-cylindrical knife handles do not bite in the same way, but they are equally deterrent to hard use by imparting shock in that area: This means you don't get blisters, but the chopping performance is actually lower than a hollow handle, because the impact has a reverberation in the hand that is a deterrent to hitting or gripping hard enough...

Because of its very poor edge geometry (15° per side on a monstrous 1.6 mm edge base), I almost did not include the Neeley SA9, because I felt it would have no chance at all against the thin edge of a Randall Model 12, or the blade-heavy heft of a "Battle-Mistress defeating" San Mai III Trailmaster -see various eye-opening videos-... (In the previous post you see the knives ranked as I imagined they would rank chopping). Imagine my utter astonishment to find, on the second day, that the Neeley SA9 was not only the most confortable chopper by far, but that despite its pathetic thick edge that I had applied poorly (the edge had an undetected wire edge that bent over heavily during the test), it outperformed everything by a large margin... Narrow non-chopping-looking blade and all...

As I expected the Model 12 proved better than the San Mai III Trailmaster, but not by much... I attribute this to 3 factors: 1-The stock is 0.22" (all Randalls are always way under the claimed stock thickness -except maybe for the Clinton dagger!-), while the Trailmaster is a true 5/16". 2-The Model 12's point taper is very long, not carrying full thickness anywhere near the point. 3-The edge is 0.020" thin (wonderful), but has a slight "convexing" that swells just above the V-edge bevel, maybe after some customers complained they couldn't "twist" the blade sideways out of the wood, like every incompetent user has right to do, without "rippling" the edge... Fortunately the Model 14 and 18 don't display this nonsense, but they are not as great choppers. One of the reasons the Al Mar "Special Warfare" chops so far above its size and weight range is it doesn't have this nonsense either... (One thing I noted though, is that the deeper "blade trapping" bites sure scratched up the Aus-6 finish more, despite the edge-holding being quite good)

So the Neeley SA9 was by some margin the best chopper, and yet narrow-bladed so not tall above the edge: No rolling tendency either (maybe the wood used just didn't have the coarse grain to cause this)... The performance of the smooth smaller diameter handle was key to this I think, combined with the full 1/4" blade thickness being carried quite close to the massively strong point. Other than that, considering the crap wire edge that became instantly dull, I'm quite stumped... With handle heavy balance, due to the undrilled solid steel pommel, and pathetic thick edge in very bad condition, it really defied comprehension, even after a few match-ups...: What will it do with a better more closed-angle edge that is not completely broken off as it folded?!?:

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The 3 tops ones, aside from the SA9, were the Randall Model 12, the CS Trailmaster and maybe the TOPS Hellion 3rd, but that seemed to do poorly in a later rematch... The hooked handle end was a bit unconfortable, if not terrible. Where the Hellion scored was in a separate test in which I deliberately used lazy low energy swings: It beat out the two others by quite a lot after 20 strokes:

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Lazy strokes are less risky, but definitely seem too unproductive for me...

One thing I noticed is that all knives struggled to make headway after 20-25 strokes, hitting a flat expanse of wood, because I did not go "around" the log to get at a "peak". This was an attempt to insure consistency, but it may have instead "flattened" the differences...: Any slight difference should be considered larger than it looks I would think... I went per count, mostly 35, and did not count obvious misses... All knives were phonebook paper push-cutting sharp, including the wire-edged SA9... Not much edge loss was noted, except on the much lighter use the first day on the Hellion (no loss on the heavier second day!), and the SA9's crumbling wire edge of course...

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The First Blood did poorly, as I expected, given the long thinned-out point and 0.22" blade stock. Its "pommel-down bite" was the most vicious outside the Model 18, but all knives (except the SA9!) felt like they were tackling too much on this fallen wood: I chose it for its rigidity and straightness...

It seems blade stock thickness, and how far that carries out to the point, are far more important than I had assumed, especially compared to the blade's depth profile, which seems to have little effect if the SA9's narrow profile is any guide... The Hellion is not helped that much by its Tanto point because it is even thinner than the Randall at 0.19-0.20"... Note how heavy-hitting the Al Mar is, for its size, being a full true 0.25" stock...

A final point I'll quickly make is that the "pommel down Bite" really changed my perception of how chopping worked: To minimize the pain over long stretches of chopping, there was no way to use the "sweet spot" often described as beyond halfway down the blade... This was simply impossible: To minimize "Pommel Down Bite", only the portion of the blade closest to the handle could be used... The only mild exception to that was the Cold Steel Trailmaster, which could be used to hit at mid-blade, because its handle was so different it didn't behave like the others. I found the handle unpleasant in a very different, "surface spiky" if unfocussed way, compared to most of the others. The handle shape seemed to "hide" any "Pommel Down Bite", so the blade could be used to hit further out in front of the guard, but the handle's thinness was so unsecure the blade still "reared up" quite a bit, reducing efficiency...

I had never heard before that hitting close to the guard was a help to chopping confort, but for me it proved emphatically true for a wide range of 9" sized knives... I suppose the hugely increasing mid-handle "swell" of Busse knives allows moving out the hits away from the handle, somehow, but, on these much lighter 9" knives, I could not imagine the extra pain of the ever increasing "Pommel Down" impact that would happen if you did that... This was by far the most surprising finding for me...

Come to think of it, how many times have you seen any of these knives, besides the apparently unusual Trailmaster (and similarly blade-heavy BK-9), tested in prolonged chopping cessions? Not often...

Gaston
 
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No, that is a Model 12 with a 14 grind. The handle has been completely re-shaped from a "Commando" handle (which was just gigantic, despite looking fine in photos), including a beautifully re-shaped pommel done by Razoredgeknives, which is why it looks so different from any other Model 12... The Micarta's finish looks dull and is less refined than the pommel, as that is all my work, much of it with a drill and small barrel sander... I didn't ask Josh to reshape the Micarta itself, as I feared it would get away from the shape I wanted: It feels just right, but is a bit dull-looking in finish, not quite "professional"... Both the 14 and 12 are supposed to be 0.25" in the blade, but the Model 12 is 0.22" while my Model 14 tapers down from around that to 0.19" for most of the blade.

I expected the 12 to be the best chopper money could buy in that size, but it misses the mark by being only 0.22" thick, and having that slight convex "swelling" above the V-edge. Unlike 18-style Randalls, which did not have this "swelling", the 12 felt quite a bit more precisely made, and very straight and symmetrical, so I would expect any new one would be exactly the same at the edge...: It could be an older Model 12 will not have the "convex" shaping above the V-edge, as current 14s do, which would be very beneficial to its chopping performance... I heard of some people warping Model 12 edges, but my experience of brutal use with my Model 14 tells me this could only happen if you twist the blade laterally as you remove it from being wedged into the wood by chopping, given how deep it could chop without the "convexing": I suspect Randall heard enough stories of this sort, and "added" material deliberately just above the edge, as this convexing looks quite precise and deliberate, and is unique to that model number on the four Randalls I have...

Another point worth noting is that the Trailmaster had a bit of a V-edge worked into its original box-stock "full" convex edge for this test, which improved performance quite a bit, as it otherwise would be slightly behind the Al Mar, as I showed in another test where it was box-stock...

Note also the full-convex zero edge super-thin Wall "Fist Blood" (edge done by Josh), which was much less than half as thick as any of the others at the edge, performed well but not especially well, and showed one small 0.020" (0.5 mm) deep by 0.1" (2.5 mm) long chip... So far convexing, no matter how thin and sharp, doesn't appear to make a big positive difference, and probably does the opposite in my view...

Gaston
 
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