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Thanks. I forgot that they offer that option.
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
THE Hollow Handle Knife Thread
- Thread starter Sam Wilson
- Start date
Thanks. I forgot that they offer that option.
Sorry all but I have to take that back: It was no crappy wire edge that folded: I check for wire edges and just re-tested the knife today: The edge just crumbles on wood within 80 strokes... Easily visible, shallow but somewhat long chunks of the +-15° per side edge are falling off from no other contact than wood... None of the others do this to this extent, including those in 440B or C...
My favourite knife design of all times, still out-chopped a San Mai III Trailmaster easily, crumbling edge and all, and this is what it comes down to... Ironically, the Farid First Blood has absolutely impeccable edge holding in comparison...
Sorry about that... I'll post pictures and a full report of the failure of the Neeley SA9, but it is a real utter disaster, not to mention that it had the bluntest edge geometry with the most open bevel angle of all the knives tested, the TOPS having much sharper and taller bevels, despite an overall thicker edge... The 5160 steel of the TOPS Hellion had a few comparatively microscopic chunks off the edge, but nothing remotely like this... The 440B of the Randall Model 12 had truly microscopic and rare micro-fractures, and the Farid none at all, though the knife could not quite hit with as much energy. Anyway I'll post pics soon.
Gaston
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- May 8, 2011
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Here is my brand new handmade high end survival knife. I have named it Leviathon!!
11.5" D2 Steel with 57°-59° hrc
Full Round Tang which makes this knife One Strong Beast (Hence the name Leviathon)
20 Deep Serrations!!
This is by far the Knife Of Knives!!
- Joined
- May 8, 2011
- Messages
- 357
Another pic of "Leviathon"!!
Very interesting knife! Who makes it? (You do know some obscure hollow handle makers, I have to grant you that!)
I count 13 wood teeths and 6 clip ones: 19
What do you mean by "full round tang"?
Can you tell us what is the blade stock and knife weight? Anything that can make me forget my Neeley SA9 is good...
Gaston
I count 13 wood teeths and 6 clip ones: 19
What do you mean by "full round tang"?
Can you tell us what is the blade stock and knife weight? Anything that can make me forget my Neeley SA9 is good...
Gaston
- Joined
- May 8, 2011
- Messages
- 357
Hello!! I sure am glad I read your post about the Neely SA9!! I have really been wanting one of those!! Now that Want can go by the wayside!!
As for your question about my Leviathon: the blade is D2 steel and is about 11.5" long and just under 1/4" thick at the spine!! I got itcwirh barely an edge on it. It was really hard to edge and sharpen, but now that it is sharp as hell, D2 steel claims it will Stay that way for a long time.
By full round tang, it is a full tang knife but the handle part has been shaped round. This gives people that love round handles and full tang knives the awesomness of Both Worlds!!
As for your question about my Leviathon: the blade is D2 steel and is about 11.5" long and just under 1/4" thick at the spine!! I got itcwirh barely an edge on it. It was really hard to edge and sharpen, but now that it is sharp as hell, D2 steel claims it will Stay that way for a long time.
By full round tang, it is a full tang knife but the handle part has been shaped round. This gives people that love round handles and full tang knives the awesomness of Both Worlds!!
Very interesting knife! Who makes it? (You do know some obscure hollow handle makers, I have to grant you that!)
I count 13 wood teeths and 6 clip ones: 19
What do you mean by "full round tang"?
Can you tell us what is the blade stock and knife weight? Anything that can make me forget my Neeley SA9 is good...
Gaston
- Joined
- May 8, 2011
- Messages
- 357
I saw the Farid First Blood knife on here!! Really nice knife!! I have 2 different handmade First Blood movie knives: One is made by Canadian Master Knifemaker and knifemaking teacher Bill Schiller. The other one I have is my dream knife, aka my handmade Ray Matton First Blood knife. Bill Schiller is Ray Matton's good friend and also is the guy that taught Ray how to make knives!! I love having 2 of the same kind of knife, one made by teacher and the other one by surpassing student!! It is very rare!
Yes First Blood knives are fine, just point-light, so not as great choppers...
The Farid was the poorest chopper because of the design, but at least the 440C steel was good this time around (despite being the very same steel as the Neeley)...: Judging just by its visual damage from wood, I would even guess the Farid had the best edge-holding of all the knives tested: I could detect no damage at all after over 100 strokes on a very thin edge... The Cold Steel Trailmaster's VG-1 and Randall were next with no real visible damage, but some barely visible signs of "beginnings"...
The SA9 was a shocker... And I gave it two chances: This is what it looked like the first time around, it kind of looked like a wire edge crumbling, so I gave it the benefit of the doubt, even though I never allow any wire edges on my work...:
This is what it looked like the second time around, on another testing day, after full re-sharpening and only around 50-60 strokes: Even worse!
Let me remind you this is solely on wood and clean wood without bark on it, as you can see in the previous pictures...
This is a rotten shame, as it out-chopped everything, to my complete surprise... And the small diameter smooth cord wrap was the most correct for confort while chopping... The sheath was the best, the handle was the best, the sawback was the best, the blade was the strongest, the design was the best chopper, if the edge was made thinner... You can't argue it didn't try and deserve to be the best... Just sad...
I will try salvage something from this disaster (no question of me selling it): I'm thinking it that despite the missed steel heat-treat, it will make a sound demonstration of the strength of hollow handles in a Noss-type destruction test...
Still shaking my head over this one...
Gaston
The Farid was the poorest chopper because of the design, but at least the 440C steel was good this time around (despite being the very same steel as the Neeley)...: Judging just by its visual damage from wood, I would even guess the Farid had the best edge-holding of all the knives tested: I could detect no damage at all after over 100 strokes on a very thin edge... The Cold Steel Trailmaster's VG-1 and Randall were next with no real visible damage, but some barely visible signs of "beginnings"...
The SA9 was a shocker... And I gave it two chances: This is what it looked like the first time around, it kind of looked like a wire edge crumbling, so I gave it the benefit of the doubt, even though I never allow any wire edges on my work...:
This is what it looked like the second time around, on another testing day, after full re-sharpening and only around 50-60 strokes: Even worse!
Let me remind you this is solely on wood and clean wood without bark on it, as you can see in the previous pictures...
This is a rotten shame, as it out-chopped everything, to my complete surprise... And the small diameter smooth cord wrap was the most correct for confort while chopping... The sheath was the best, the handle was the best, the sawback was the best, the blade was the strongest, the design was the best chopper, if the edge was made thinner... You can't argue it didn't try and deserve to be the best... Just sad...
I will try salvage something from this disaster (no question of me selling it): I'm thinking it that despite the missed steel heat-treat, it will make a sound demonstration of the strength of hollow handles in a Noss-type destruction test...
Still shaking my head over this one...
Gaston
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Sam Wilson
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Yes First Blood knives are fine, just point-light, so not as great choppers...
The Farid was the poorest chopper because of the design, but at least the 440C steel was good this time around (despite being the very same steel as the Neeley)...: Judging just by its visual damage from wood, I would even guess the Farid had the best edge-holding of all the knives tested: I could detect no damage at all after over 100 strokes on a very thin edge... The Cold Steel Trailmaster's VG-1 and Randall were next with no real visible damage, but some barely visible signs of "beginnings"...
The SA9 was a shocker... And I gave it two chances: This is what it looked like the first time around, it kind of looked like a wire edge crumbling, so I gave it the benefit of the doubt, even though I never allow any wire edges on my work...:
This is what it looked like the second time around, on another testing day, after full re-sharpening and only around 50-60 strokes: Even worse!
Let me remind you this is solely on wood and clean wood without bark on it, as you can see in the previous pictures...
This is a rotten shame, as it out-chopped everything, to my complete surprise... And the small diameter smooth cord wrap was the most correct for confort while chopping... The sheath was the best, the handle was the best, the sawback was the best, the blade was the strongest, the design was the best chopper, if the edge was made thinner... You can't argue it didn't try and deserve to be the best... Just sad...
I will try salvage something from this disaster (no question of me selling it): I'm thinking it that despite the missed steel heat-treat, it will make a sound demonstration of the strength of hollow handles in a Noss-type destruction test...
Still shaking my head over this one...
Gaston
At this point, I truly believe youre beyond help. And ridiculous.
Also, deluded beyond belief about your skill and ability with knives. How in the world can you have the nerve to complain about the heat treat on Vaughn Neeleys knife? Have you tested it for hardness? If so, you may have a good point. Lets discuss that. If not
Surely you havent based all your ludicrous statements about the heat treat on that knife on the apparent edge damage the knife suffered after it looks like you have sharpened it into a straight razor? Have you? Part of me wants you to say yes, so I can laugh even more. But part of me is hoping there is yet another bizarre twist to this insane saga of yours.
I know already that you will have a long, looonnng nonsensical rebuttal to this post, just like the gibberish in THIS thread here, which was quite entertaining. But I had to say something about the lunacy of your attacks on Neeleys knife. You very clearly stated in this thread multiple times that you modified and thinned the edge drastically on that knife. Neeley very clearly designed the steel, heat treat, thickness and edge geometry to work as HE provided them. Start changing those factors around, and its on you.
Barring the possibility that the heat treat is off on that knife, (which Im not inclined to go with, given Neeleys experience and skill, although anything is certainly possible) the much more logical explanation is that you sharpened it too thin and beat the crap out of it.
How do you even know what all those factors need to be for optimal performance? Youve sharpened a bunch of your own knives? How many have you designed and made? You modified that knife (based on what Ive read in this thread) to suit your own liking. Fine. But you didnt design and make that knife, nor do you know its parameters and limitations. Well, at least now you presumably know the limitations of the edge.
Holy crap, go start a thread, or better yet write a book about your sharpening adventures, the advantages (???) of carrying large sheath knives inside the pants, and all the other things you have mastery over in life. Im sure it will go over with the same popularity of all your other voluminous posts. (Again, HERE.)
Best of luck.
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Gaston,
Your reviews are not even consistent. You negatively state several times that Neeley's sawback is disappointing...
...then you state this:
Which is it!!!
The Timberline SA won Blade's 1983 "American Made Knife of the Year Award" for a reason. Stop bashing Neeley's knife and design especially after YOU reprofiled the edge.
Great post, Sam. :thumbup:
Your reviews are not even consistent. You negatively state several times that Neeley's sawback is disappointing...
...then you state this:
Which is it!!!
The Timberline SA won Blade's 1983 "American Made Knife of the Year Award" for a reason. Stop bashing Neeley's knife and design especially after YOU reprofiled the edge.
Great post, Sam. :thumbup:
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I'd forgotten that he had thinned out the edge so much, no wonder its having issues.
Yes First Blood knives are fine, just point-light, so not as great choppers...
The Farid was the poorest chopper because of the design, but at least the 440C steel was good this time around (despite being the very same steel as the Neeley)...: Judging just by its visual damage from wood, I would even guess the Farid had the best edge-holding of all the knives tested: I could detect no damage at all after over 100 strokes on a very thin edge... The Cold Steel Trailmaster's VG-1 and Randall were next with no real visible damage, but some barely visible signs of "beginnings"...
The SA9 was a shocker... And I gave it two chances: This is what it looked like the first time around, it kind of looked like a wire edge crumbling, so I gave it the benefit of the doubt, even though I never allow any wire edges on my work...:
This is what it looked like the second time around, on another testing day, after full re-sharpening and only around 50-60 strokes: Even worse!
Let me remind you this is solely on wood and clean wood without bark on it, as you can see in the previous pictures...
This is a rotten shame, as it out-chopped everything, to my complete surprise... And the small diameter smooth cord wrap was the most correct for confort while chopping... The sheath was the best, the handle was the best, the sawback was the best, the blade was the strongest, the design was the best chopper, if the edge was made thinner... You can't argue it didn't try and deserve to be the best... Just sad...
I will try salvage something from this disaster (no question of me selling it): I'm thinking it that despite the missed steel heat-treat, it will make a sound demonstration of the strength of hollow handles in a Noss-type destruction test...
Still shaking my head over this one...
Gaston
I'd imagine re-profiling the edge by grinding/abrading it parallel with the length of the blade has caused stress risers at the edge - hence the edge failure.
If I were you, I'd invest in one of these...it'd save you all these edge angle/bevel/grind dramas you seem to continually suffer from whilst trying to cut logs..:thumbup:
If you had bothered to read my posts, you would know the Neeley saw doesn't work at all on objects over 2" in width, but works very well as soon as you get under 2".
I even mentionned that the performance you saw on 2X4s made sense in that context...
Me, if I was you, and I knew I had not read all the posts, I would not feel confident to make comments about obvious discrepancies without first checking...
Gaston
Sam Wilson
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Me, if I was you, I wouldn't feel confident about ever posting on Bladeforums or using a knife again after making such a buffoon of yourself.
Thanks for the classy outburst... If you'd read anything I wrote, even with a cursory glance, you would know the Neeley was by far the dullest most open-angled knife in the line up, from beginning to end, and all the other knives were all sharpened the exact same way to a much sharper angle than the Neeley.
If you read everything I've said about the Neeley, you will see it was always the dullest and remained the dullest knife I ever owned outside the Boker Apparo (before the Apparo got major re-profiling). From photos, you can also tell you the edges are much thicker on the Neeley Liles than they are on the original Liles: Neeley appears to like 30-35° per side...
All the knives were sharpened the same way, inlcuding the Cold Steel Trailmaster, and the SA9 had by far the stoutest edge, even compared to the TOPS Hellion.
You can criticise my sharpening methods all you want, knowing nothing about them, or how long I have been doing it, but you can't change the fact that I praised the design of the SA9 all the way through the misery I had sharpening it (to my great embarrassement now)... You can't change the fact it had the bluntest edge of all the knives tested that were sharpened the exact same way, and you can't change the fact this edge crumbled under very light use, solely on wood, while the others did not.
If you are that serious about countering what I said, here is my offer: Tell me what address you want it sent to, and I will send you this piece of junk free of charge for you to keep forever, at my postage expense...
Then you can evaluate the knife and tell us how unfair I was to it. Don't send it back, I don't want it... Is that fair enough?
Gaston
P.S I have already sent you a PM so you can email me back the address you want this sent to.: Here is a picture of the knife's condition as sent:
Obviously it took a terrible beating to get the edge to crumble...
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I really do think you thinned out the edge too much on the Neely Gaston. I'd been looking at the pics and had forgotten you had taken it down a lot, Neely did run his edges pretty wide if memory serves. Not that you can't get a sharp edge on a wide angled blade.
It's no better than 15° per side Dave, which is 30° inclusive, and all the others were way sharper than that, especially the Al Mar, which has to be around 10° on Aus-6, and none of them showed any sign of crumbling... It was by far the the most open-angle edge tested, and it was there only two of the three days of testing, so all the others had more chopping in them... It was so dull in fact, that was one of the reasons I did not bring it the first day, as I thought it could not compete... Then it beat all the others... With a crumbing edge...
Gaston
Gaston
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There is a huge difference between a 30 degree edge and 40 which is what most of mine are. If the heat treat was bad you would have half moon chunks out of the blade or it would have just snapped in half, in the pic it looks like you took it just way too thin and removed too much metal.
