THE Hollow Handle Knife Thread

I forgot to mention about the sheath to that knife in my post Gaston. But if I can recall right, which I usually do, the sheath that came with this so-called "Stock" piece as you called it, was a really high end, thick leather sheath. It was def. made and stitched by hand. And it sported a round diamond sharpener pouch in the center as seen on other sheaths. It also had a firestarter key open compartment on the right side. The label on the back of it said Rhondo or Rondo, maybe? Something like that. Anyway, the knife, with its flaws, was a real workhorse knife. D2 steel blade and all. I used it on 3 camping out trips before I decided to donate it as a kind gesture. But anyway, that is all I wanted to add here. Thanks.

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You never posted who made it or the sheath it came with... It seems you said it was a one off... I am probably going to get custom leather for my 11.25" Voorhis (the maker's leather seems so-so);I'd be curious to see the leather you got for that one...

Gaston[/QUOTE]
 
I also just recently purchased a M9 survival field knife. The maker mark says Strider Knives, and made with D2 steel, 8" blade, hardened at 58°-59° hrc.

I wasn't familiar with Strider Knives so I did some research on it. Looks like the guy that made this beautiful hardcore fulltanger's name is Mick Strider. Apparently Mick Strider is an awesome, super wellknown knifemaker who was associated with Chuck Buck and Buck Knives some way. But will know more and do more research once I get this beautiful knife.

This is what you are getting: Interesting knife!:

STRIDER-M9-combat-knife-tactical-knife-camping-knife-outdoor-knife-survival-knife-collection-knife-high-classical.jpg


I can't post pics right now, but all my Survival Knives are going through a bit of an evolution: Pair of socks around the sheath and integrated thermal blanket for all of the hollow handles. The Colin Cox even carrying two such blankets, in a form slim enough for inside the waistband... Plus much cord of course...

But they are actually expanding into pairs of knives: The idea being that a medium size 7-8" blade knife, stuck diagonally in the back, improves the balance of the tension on the belt, and this needs to offer a utility radically different from the knife in front...

Gaston
 
This is what you are getting: Interesting knife!:

STRIDER-M9-combat-knife-tactical-knife-camping-knife-outdoor-knife-survival-knife-collection-knife-high-classical.jpg


I can't post pics right now, but all my Survival Knives are going through a bit of an evolution: Pair of socks around the sheath and integrated thermal blanket for all of the hollow handles. The Colin Cox even carrying two such blankets, in a form slim enough for inside the waistband... Plus much cord of course...

But they are actually expanding into pairs of knives: The idea being that a medium size 7-8" blade knife, stuck diagonally in the back, improves the balance of the tension on the belt, and this needs to offer a utility radically different from the knife in front...

Gaston

Gaston, just to make sure I'm reading this right and not getting confused, are you saying that you take a large hollow handle survival knife (in a sheath), stick it in a pair of socks, and then put it down your pants and go out in public?
 
Gaston, just to make sure I'm reading this right and not getting confused, are you saying that you take a large hollow handle survival knife (in a sheath), stick it in a pair of socks, and then put it down your pants and go out in public?

Well going out on a bike ride is going out in public is it not?

Gaston
 
Gaston, just to make sure I'm reading this right and not getting confused, are you saying that you take a large hollow handle survival knife (in a sheath), stick it in a pair of socks, and then put it down your pants and go out in public?

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this carry method as well - especially on a bicycle. :confused:
 
I'm still trying to wrap my head around this carry method as well - especially on a bicycle. :confused:

Well have you ever seen someone ride a bike with a 7-10" knife dangling from the belt? I haven't. Ever. Ask yourself why this is so...

In thirty years of carrying knives, I have never used the belt loop: That being said, long ago, in my misguided youth, I often carried, just for fun, lighter fixed blade knives with no front pocket or gear attached to the sheath: The typical fixed blade knife I carried was first a 7" Sabatier Jeune Boy scout knife, then a Gerber Mk II clone of uncertain origin, the Gerber Mk II itself (Cutlery Shoppe edition), the Command I, and also in-between something called the SOG Government. Other knives were the SOG Tech II, the Cold Steel Tanto and Recon Tanto, a Buck Nighthawk and even a Special. They were all relatively small 6-7" knives that there was absolutely no point to display in public, even in the deepest darkest woods... Except for the Sabatier, maybe the Special, and the Cutlery Shoppe Mark II (replaced 3 times for a center grind that waved all over the place) they were all what I would consider today dull junk... The biggest knife I ever carried at that time was the Magnum Tanto, and occasionally the even bigger Aitor Jungle King I, in leather, the only hollow handle I ever bought before 2010... The only modifications to the sheaths were to remove the belt loop, or, for some of the leather ones, superglue the entire backface with a thin sheet of plastic (sometimes not needed on black dyed sheaths that faced the smooth leather side towards the body, as on the CS Tantos).

Then, for twenty years after that youthful fixed blade period, I mostly carried folders like everyone else (a Buck light and Endura being the long-lasting introduction), usually forgotten in some pocket somewhere... Can't say I ever found any use for any knife outside of camping (until recently my Model 14 literally saved my skin, during a bike ride, starting my current round of hollow handle fixed blades)...

Much larger knives with massive gear wrapped around them is why the idea of the socks came about.

The concerns about the legality of concealment stems from people not understanding the law (at least not the way it is here in Canada): There are no laws against concealed tools.. It is the intent to use as a weapon that is illegal, concealed or not makes absolutely no difference... Being downtown with a concealed Spyderco Civilian is probably worse than being with a concealed 10" Mission in some suburbs during a bike ride, because the intent to use as a tool is easier to justify near some woods than far away from them...

While people here claim to be routinely carrying fixed knives openly, I've seen it only once downtown where I live, and it looked pretty ridiculous... A good way to be a social outcast... Amusingly, I have never seen anyone carry any fixed blade knife openly, dangling from the belt, on any wood trail either... Probably because, let's face it, they are generally not very useful for picnics, which is why I also mostly leave them at home, particularly when going downtown...

As to the concealed "tool" being found out during a search, the only reason you would think that is even possible is because you don't understand the restrictions Police are under... They can only demand to search you if they are in the process of investigating a specific crime, and when they have a legitimate reason to think you a connected to it... Being in front of a 40 year old citizen with an utterly clean record... My God...

The funny thing on this site is people often question my carrying a 20 ounces Survival Knife in a way that is not visible, yet they find carrying a 30 ounce handgun completely rational and legitimate... Let me tell you, if people around here found out you were routinely carrying a handgun, you would be watching a lot of TV...

Gaston
 
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Well have you ever seen someone ride a bike with a 7-10" knife dangling from the belt? I haven't. Ever. Ask yourself why this is so...

In thirty years of carrying knives, I have never used the belt loop: That being said, long ago, in my misguided youth, I often carried, just for fun, lighter fixed blade knives with no front pocket or gear attached to the sheath: The typical fixed blade knife I carried was first a 7" Sabatier Jeune Boy scout knife, then a Gerber Mk II clone of uncertain origin, the Gerber Mk II itself (Cutlery Shoppe edition), the Command I, and also in-between something called the SOG Government. Other knives were the SOG Tech II, the Cold Steel Tanto and Recon Tanto, a Buck Nighthawk and even a Special. They were all relatively small 6-7" knives that there was absolutely no point to display in public, even in the deepest darkest woods... Except for the Sabatier, maybe the Special, and the Cutlery Shoppe Mark II (replaced 3 times for a center grind that waved all over the place) they were all what I would consider today dull junk... The biggest knife I ever carried at that time was the Magnum Tanto, and occasionally the even bigger Aitor Jungle King I, in leather, the only hollow handle I ever bought before 2010... The only modifications to the sheaths were to remove the belt loop, or, for some of the leather ones, superglue the entire backface with a thin sheet of plastic (sometimes not needed on black dyed sheaths that faced the smooth leather side towards the body, as on the CS Tantos).

Then, for twenty years after that youthful fixed blade period, I mostly carried folders like everyone else (a Buck light and Endura being the long-lasting introduction), usually forgotten in some pocket somewhere... Can't say I ever found any use for any knife outside of camping (until recently my Model 14 literally saved my skin, during a bike ride, starting my current round of hollow handle fixed blades)...

Much larger knives with massive gear wrapped around them is why the idea of the socks came about.

The concerns about the legality of concealment stems from people not understanding the law (at least not the way it is here in Canada): There are no laws against concealed tools.. It is the intent to use as a weapon that is illegal, concealed or not makes absolutely no difference... Being downtown with a concealed Spyderco Civilian is probably worse than being with a concealed 10" Mission in some suburbs during a bike ride, because the intent to use as a tool is easier to justify near some woods than far away from them...

While people here claim to be routinely carrying fixed knives openly, I've seen it only once downtown where I live, and it looked pretty ridiculous... A good way to be a social outcast... Amusingly, I have never seen anyone carry any fixed blade knife openly, dangling from the belt, on any wood trail either... Probably because, let's face it, they are generally not very useful for picnics, which is why I also mostly leave them at home, particularly when going downtown...

As to the concealed "tool" being found out during a search, the only reason you would think that is even possible is because you don't understand the restrictions Police are under... They can only demand to search you if they are in the process of investigating a specific crime, and when they have a legitimate reason to think you a connected to it... Being in front of a 40 year old citizen with an utterly clean record... My God...

The funny thing on this site is people often question my carrying a 20 ounces Survival Knife in a way that is not visible, yet they find carrying a 30 ounce handgun completely rational and legitimate... Let me tell you, if people around here found out you were routinely carrying a handgun, you would be watching a lot of TV...

Gaston
 
Well have you ever seen someone ride a bike with a 7-10" knife dangling from the belt? I haven't. Ever. Ask yourself why this is so...

Gaston, I'm not questioning why you use this carry method, I'm honestly confused on how it could be comfortable and secure on a bicycle. Is most of your riding done in the city or on mountain bike trails? I assume you're on trials, hence the reason for carrying a large survival knife.

This is a sincere request - please post a photo of your typical carry (large survival knife, sheath, survival blanket, sock, and all), inside the pants, sitting on a bicycle. Again, I am sincerely curious.
 
Gaston, I'm not questioning why you use this carry method, I'm honestly confused on how it could be comfortable and secure on a bicycle. Is most of your riding done in the city or on mountain bike trails? I assume you're on trials, hence the reason for carrying a large survival knife.

This is a sincere request - please post a photo of your typical carry (large survival knife, sheath, survival blanket, sock, and all), inside the pants, sitting on a bicycle. Again, I am sincerely curious.



I second this, I need to see one of these tube sock hollow handle survival systems
 
Amusingly, I have never seen anyone carry any fixed blade knife openly, dangling from the belt, on any wood trail either... Probably because, let's face it, they are generally not very useful for picnics, which is why I also mostly leave them at home, particularly when going downtown...

How do you spread your peanut butter, if not with a fixed blade knife?

Gaston, I'm not questioning why you use this carry method, I'm honestly confused on how it could be comfortable and secure on a bicycle. Is most of your riding done in the city or on mountain bike trails? I assume you're on trials, hence the reason for carrying a large survival knife.

This is a sincere request - please post a photo of your typical carry (large survival knife, sheath, survival blanket, sock, and all), inside the pants, sitting on a bicycle. Again, I am sincerely curious.

He must ride on completely different trails than I do, or have a different method of riding... I can't carry anything in my riding shorts without screwing myself up. I put my survival gear in my Camelback (and my pistol in a chest rig).
 
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Gaston, I'm not questioning why you use this carry method, I'm honestly confused on how it could be comfortable and secure on a bicycle. Is most of your riding done in the city or on mountain bike trails? I assume you're on trials, hence the reason for carrying a large survival knife.

This is a sincere request - please post a photo of your typical carry (large survival knife, sheath, survival blanket, sock, and all), inside the pants, sitting on a bicycle. Again, I am sincerely curious.

I'm having trouble with uploading any pics except those already on my photobucket, so it will be a while.

You can't really use a sheath's belt loop on a bike because if you close your coat the handle will pull it to one side: This can't happen when the knife is diagonal across the belly. With a shorter coat, or riding up the coat over the handle, or over a ring loop dangler, the coat would pass over the handle so it would work, but it would still look pretty ridiculous.

In any case with the recent nicer weather I've just done a new evaluation of the knives I have for edge-holding while chopping wood: I hesitate to chop into wood in freezing weather because the frozen humidity just adds a layer of uncertainty: This was done at 10 degrees C: It confirmed some of the issues I had noted in those knives last summer, so even ensuring there was not the slightest wire edge, or opening the angle with a micro-bevel, it did not solve the issues noted a year ago:

-Neeley SA9: That one was only tested last summer, and until it gained a 25 degree per side or more micro-bevel, the 440C steel just crumbled. The edge did hold up when micro-bevelled 25 per side thick, but it nevertheless dulled very quickly. (This knife's handle also started to unscrew itself from its brass fileted base plug, in barely 50 chops, at which point I gave up on it)

-Andrew Clifford Sly II: Last summer with a 0.040" edge, a bit over 15 per side, it showed bad rolling/chipping in Maple: Now back from RazorEdgeKnives at a thickness of 0.020", and with extensive hand-sharpening to 15 per side to move out of a possible "burned" edge area, the edge rolls on Maple so badly in some places the edge points upwards... (Side by side on the same wood, but with 10X more chops, the Randall Model 12 showed not the slightest damage: Will post pics later): I don't know why this is, since some customers have shown satisfaction with them, but this is abyssmal...

-RJ Martin "Blackbird": Extensive re-test from an edge very carefully checked for wire-edges: It is 15 degrees on one side and 20 degrees on the other, all by hand: The same symptoms as last year re-appeared, but this time I had outlined the hit zones to distinguish them from the untouched zones: What happens is not as drastic a failure as the Neeley or Clifford, but in the areas pre-determined, a mere 15X chops was enough to cause wire edges to appear all over the areas where I made sure the hits were concentrated. The wire edge is tenacious however and stays upright: It is also very small in height and not visible; it is only noticeable because it shaves nail where previously it didn't...: Compared to Randall or Lile after hundreds of chops at much thinner angles, this is still a serious failure... Given the wild disparities between makers on 440C, I wouldn't even begin to speculate if the S30V plays a role here: The behaviour is consistent and moderately poor: This will definitely be a beater...

-Lile SLy II: Entire blade geometry thinned by RazoEdgeKnives from 0.043" to 0.020" or less behind the edge: The chopping performance improvement is surprisingly large. No real visible damage to the edge in about 100 chops since the re-grind, at barely 12 degrees per side if that. There was a microscopic and very slight edge bend in one place, not in the center of the hit area, probably from a sand particle embedded in the surface of the branch: Barely visible.

-Lile Mission: Last year this had behaved exactly the same as the Sly II at about 12-15 per side, but not even a blemish from a sand particle or anything else in 100+ chops. Don't know if either is D-2 or 440C, as Lile doesn't mark them.

-I recently tested the Colin Cox: This was my sharpest big knife so far, with an edge of about 10 degrees per side: The edge sharpness held up perfectly in about 80 chops despite the thin angle. However in the first test I hit the guard on the wood, bending the guard back slightly, and light tapping to redress the bent guard cause the handle to slide back (separation): I applied superglue to the exposed area and tapped the handle back halfway, and in 40 more chops the handle continued to separate, revealing it was held only by a sort of green transluscent resin and no mechanical locking: Unlike Randalls, it is not welded... The tang is massive and does fit tightly into the tube: I may try to just superglue again the stuff together with thinner infiltrating glue... I would not call this a serious knife...

So far only the Liles have done well, which I am very annoyed about, but if those are the only ones that are good then that will have to be it... So out of six knives, Neeley, Clifford, RJ Martin, Cox, and 2 Liles, all in the near 1k range or above, here is the tally:

-2 handle separations from very mild use.
-2 edges badly crumbling in a few dozen chops (one overlapping with a handle separation).
-1 edge mildly rolling in a dozen chops. (Stay away from S30V if that's really what it is like)
-2 behaving perfect from start to finish, both Liles...

Gaston
 
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I'm having trouble with uploading any pics except those already on my photobucket, so it will be a while.
Thanks.

-Neeley SA9: That one was only tested last summer, and until it gained a 25 degree per side or more micro-bevel, the 440C steel just crumbled. The edge did hold up when micro-bevelled 25 per side thick, but it nevertheless dulled very quickly. (This knife's handle also started to unscrew itself from its brass fileted base plug, in barely 50 chops, at which point I gave up on it)
Is this the knife that you sent to Sam a while back? Did Sam work on it? Did he keep it or send it back to you? Personally, I think it should be examined by Neeley.
 
Never heard anything back about it. But to be frank I made it clear to Sam I was not too keen to get it back, because it was not in a saleable condition anyway, and most of all because I don't think the geometry is salvageable...

What happens is I have grown quite wary of what I might bring into the woods: I know that to save on the "good knives", I have a tendency to always bring the worse knife I have, and if this knife is bad enough, I know it can get me injured... The Neeley is definitely a knife I would consider unsafe to swing at twigs, and it has nothing to do with the handle coming unscrewed... The problems with the Neeley go beyond poor edge holding and the handle's securing system: The geometry of the entire blade is simply absurd, the edge being around 0.060" on a fairly narrow blade, getting even worse towards the tip...

The plunge line on this thing is a complex compound curve that would be difficult to replicate if someone wanted to thin out the entire hollow grind (I know Josh of RazorEdgeKnives could not replicate this plunge line). The saw performance is OK on small diameter branches, but way below the Lile saw, and not even much better than the RJ Martin saw, so there is nothing special to salvage on that front...

You could make from scratch a good knife that would look like the Neeley SA9, but basically to make a good knife out of an actual Neeley SA9 is pretty much like making a new one from scratch... I have brought a dull big knife into the woods before (to save on what I then thought was a "great knife", my Chris Reeves Jereboam and its marginal 0.040" edge: Not quite an unsafe knife, but it does tend to glance furiously while chopping, not really sure why): That "substitute" knife was the cheapo SOG Jungle Warrior to not name it, and to get it to cut twigs I had to swing it like a wip, and one twig refused to get cut by something so dull (and unsharpenable I might add) and it sprang it out of my grasp, back towards me point first, two inches into my leg... An inch here or there, and we are talking femoral artery...

From that day on, I knew "Survival Knife" can have two kinds of meaning... One ambulance ride was enough to cure me forever of dull thick-edged knives...

On completely another subject, and a more positive note, the Colin Cox appears now somewhat salvageable... By trapping thin crazy glue between the tube handle and the exposed "resin", and sliding the tube handle back on top of it, I did about 100 chops, and this trapped cyano glue, combined with the original resin, appears to hold... It is certainly much stronger now than it ever was to begin with...

The bizarre appearance of the Colin Cox is completely at odds with its chopping performance: The initial cutting performance while chopping is truly eye opening: Deep, narrow, completely effortless cuts... It is only when going deeper that the saber grind wants to hit the sides a little, but it is actually not that bad despite the sabre grind being so low: The 0.017" edge is so thin it cuts like a laser, and this seems to eliminate any tendency to glance...: Much less glancing tendency than on a Jereboam and its 0.040" edge for instance.

The ease of cutting is such that the lack of height of the sabre grind seemed to encourage going around rather than trying to cut one way: A 2.5" depth is achieved nearly instantly, so by going around the low saber grind ceases to be an impediment.

I tried chopping with the sawback and it has about half the performance of the main edge: It does particularly well in breaking through knots I noticed, and while less efficient than the main edge, it still outperforms a sawback...

The main edge held together beautifully after nearly 100 chops. That the thing's handle is held with crazy glue is not pleasant, but we are not exactly spoiled for choice with thin-edged Survival Knives... I am still a bit bummed that objectively the best Survival Knife I have so far, in every category you could shake a stick at, has "Rambo the Mission" actually written on it... How embarrassing... All I need now is a Pontiac Firebird with a big flaming decal on the hood...

The good thing now is that since it is my best knife, I won't be going out with it... The RJ Martin is much more my style: Rational, logical, well thought out, unique, and Rambo or "Mission" or "Commando" not written once anywhere on it... I just wish the Lile did not mop the floor with it and its cheesy 0.040" edge...

Gaston
 
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Gaston, I can't seem to find your email information. I sent your knife to Vaughn as you and I agreed upon in our phone discussion, as after evaluating the knife I thought it best it go to the maker instead of me modifying it. I was under the impression that you and Vaughn had resolved the issue. As that is apparently not the case, if you want to, please email me and I can provide you with contact information for Vaughn and the two of you can work it out.

Thank you,

Sam Wilson :thumbup:
 
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