Hi everyone,sorry for derailing the topic somewhat but Im a noob when it comes to metal and understanding how everything works and it seems there's a lot of you here that know their trade,my question to you is regarding impact,lets say I have a chopper out of non heat treated 420HC and I have a chopper out of CPM REX 121with the best possible heat treat at the highest possible hardness (72RC I think?),does hardness matter when it comes to impact,will a harder blade hit harder or does it all depend on velocity?
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"The Top of The Pops" The Next Generation of Knife Steels
- Thread starter cm_bushman
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I don't think there is a relationship between impact and the hardness of heat treat. Impact is determined by mass and velocity.
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Yep. I have to agree with Jim. These really clean powder steels seem pretty easy to sharpen in comparison to ingot steels ( even lower wear ones) when it gets to the rc 60's and above. I've been amazed how easy they can be with DMT's or Norton SiC. M390 has a nice bite too which can be fun to cut with.
Amazing things these 2nd, 3rd, whatever generation powder steels. I still haven't found an inclusion or bubble or anything other than what's supposed to be there in Elmax.
Still though, I'll take Cruwear at rc 62-63 any day.
Now that's a steel with all kinds of cutting ability that seems to have slipped between the cracks. It's old, ingot, corrodes into pits if not managed, but is way ahead of D2 in wear and toughness with as nice, or an even better bite. It takes savage edges when desired and is tougher than D2 by a ways.
CTS B75 ( Carpenter powder BG42) seems to be one waiting to be discovered as far as performance wise. I like it .
Joe
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Wow. I thought S30V was still considered a super steel. I think that once a super steel, always a super steel. S30V had so much hype, and now I feel people scoff at it as if it were 440C. I just like good old fashioned tool steels, because they still have great toughness, edge retention, and are pretty corrosion resistan, but still sharpen up quick and easy.
Connor
Connor
Whats funny about that is that 440c was once a big deal in the knife world, but technology and the availability of materials advance over time. It's kinda like motorcycles. Once upon a time the 750cc engine was the big powerhouse in the mototcycle world, the SUPER-ENGINE! but today it's considered undersized and underpowered by many. All that was once new and impressive will one day become old and unimpressive in the eyes of many.
And for the record- there are many fine, high-quality knives being made with 440c (Entrek for example). In fact, some custom makers often prefer 440c for various applications.
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+1 for that... as dumb as it may sound to some, it's taken me a lot of years to decide that it's time to "upgrade" from 440C. i have been using it for a lot of years and have never had a real complaint. like i said somewhere around 4 pages ago, it may not be "tough" by super steel standards, but it has proven itself time and again over the long haul, and is still more than capable.
440c is the George foreman of stainless knife steel... maybe not as impressive as it once was, but it would probably still suprise most people who didn't give it proper respect.
440c is the George foreman of stainless knife steel... maybe not as impressive as it once was, but it would probably still suprise most people who didn't give it proper respect.
Ankerson
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Bronze worked really well too over 3,000 years ago, but then people discovered iron and eventually steel.
Going by that same logic and if people really believed it we all would still be living in caves and beating the meat off of the animals with clubs instead of cutting it.
Oh come on Ankerson... Using 440c isn't the same as "beating the meat off an animal with clubs".
You are starting to sound a bit elitist.
If you wanna talk about ancient tools used for cutting meat we could bring up obsidian, which can actually form an edge that is sharper than modern steels are capable of.
Obsidian; cheap, ancient, natural... and sharper. S90V sucks.
That statement defies rationality.
To suggest that using or prefering something older represents an abandonment of modern technology or is the equivelant of being a caveman absolutely defies logical thinking.
I use an old fashioned hammer, despite the fact that there are air-powered nail guns.
I prefer 1911 semi-automatic pistols with iron sights instead of Glocks with laser sights.
I prefer motorcycles with carbuerated engines over fuel-injected engines.
And I like my 440c knives and find them perfectly effective in all my cutting chores.
Guess I'm just a caveman.
Advancement and progress are good things, but that doesn't mean that everything that is older is useless or a rejection of human evolution.
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Nobody said older materials are useless.
The tone of some replies indicated we don't need to develop new steels because the old ones work just fine.
You're right, nobody said older materials are "useless". But Mr. Ankerson clearly and unmistakenly compared making a blade out of 440c with "living in caves and beating the meat off of the animals with clubs instead of cutting it". I'd say that's far more extreme than just calling it "useless". Of course if you agree with that point of view or wish to defend it that's your prerogative.
I don't recall anyone saying that.
As for myself, I own knives made of 420, 440, ICM154, ATS34, VG10, D2, and S30V. But if anyone wanted to give me a knife made with the most modern and advanced steel available, I'd be happy to receive it and use it, I always like free knives. But until then, I'm sure what I have will continue to serve me just fine.
And I like my 440c knives and find them perfectly effective in all my cutting chores.
Guess I'm just a caveman.
Advancement and progress are good things, but that doesn't mean that everything that is older is useless or a rejection of human evolution.
Well said!
but I carried 8cr13mov for most of my life, so what do I know.
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I don't believe that Ankerson said that. What I believe he meant is that if you stop innovating because "the old ways work", then you might as well stop all progress when you find something that works reasonably well.
Ankerson
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I knew someone would get it.
The human race would still be living as they did back around 1 million years ago for sure.
Ankerson
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Fanboys will be fanboys.
Just looking at things logically.
Image if nothing evolved because things were good enough from say 10,000 years ago.......
Or
5,000 years ago....
Or
3,000 years ago.....
Or how about even 500 years ago....
Just looking at things logically.
Image if nothing evolved because things were good enough from say 10,000 years ago.......
Or
5,000 years ago....
Or
3,000 years ago.....
Or how about even 500 years ago....
I'm just arguing for fun here, because I know what you are meaning to say, but what you actually said seems to be something different.
I never saw that this quote ever said we shouldn't move forward with metallurgy. I only saw that he said "old ain't broke".
Anyway... Is nobody interested in SM-100?!
Ankerson
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I wasn't saying anything more.
One can still plow their field with a Plow and Mule, it's not broken.... And it still works.
And they can still cut the hay by hand too, that still works also.
They can also go back to 500 years ago and do without all of the advancements, all of that still works today, things like oil lamps, no power at all, riding horses or walking, doing all the work by hand with no power tools.
Oh, no medicines to speak of either.
Not saying stuff doesn't work, but without advancements or new technology we would all still be living in the dark ages if everyone thought well that works for me and we don't need anything new.
So when people start talking about old stuff, and yes it still works I think about that frame of thought and if we all thought like that over the past few thousand years or so what life would be like today...... Still.....