Three Weapons and You're On Your Own

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THREE weapons -
For the long gun, it will be a 270 bolt action, a Rem. 870 pump 12 guage with an extended mag, and a 357 Marlin lever action with a 4X compact Burris scope.
For a sidearm, I prefer the Ruger 357 GP100, Browning 9, and a Smith K frame 22.
For my knife - I'd like my leafblade sword, small Chitlangi, and 16" AK Chiruwa.
Everything would fit in the back of the SUV....or over my shoulder.

If I were traveling light, I'd take the 357 revolver, Marlin and a BAS (with a pocket knife).

If it were the end of the world, I think that I'd rather stay home, watch HBO, and eat some chips....or some ice cream.
 
Nasty said:
Women? I thought we were just taking the Swedish Bikini Ski Team with us...why do we need any more?
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Yvsa said:
Ever hear the album, "Sloppy seconds?" by, Oh Hell, there goes my memory again. I can see the cover right nice thank ya ver' much.:rolleyes: :mad:
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Well I finally recalled the name of the band!!!! How could I forget?!?!?!???? :rolleyes: :grumpy:

It was Dr Hook and The Medicine Show. Remember them or was it before your time Uwinv? :p :D ;)

Lots of good songs on that album. I may have and LP in my collection, if so I'm gonna make a cassette and put it in the Camry and another fer the truck!!!!:D :cool: :D
 
I remember Dr Hook and I remember Commander Cody too.
I remember Captain Beefheart.




munk
 
2000 rounds of 22? 4 bricks from out of the 50 cal ammo can? OK, but that'll have to do it. You ain't getting a single round more, no matter how much you plead and beg.

Oh, that's what you'll be bringing? Then that's different. And those who get there first, look for the biiiig U-Haul pulling a little white Mazda pickup.
 
.22 LR is one of those things you can never have too much of. A few years ago I started making it a habit that every time I went over to the Wal-Mart, or Big 5, or Outdoor World or my indoor shooting range, to pick up either 1 or 2 boxes of Stingers (50 rds, ea.), a 100 rd. plastic box of CCI mini-mags, or one of those $9 or $10 500-550 rd. bricks/boxes of ammo, Remington, Winchester, Federal, whatever. It's totally painless if you buy it this way.

I didn't buy any at all during the close to 18 months that I was out of work, but last time I counted a few months ago, I was still somewhere past 30,000 rounds, with at least 5000 of that in Stingers. I filled up all the "Fat-Fifty" cans I had, and then switched to grenade ammo boxes or some double sided ones (18X18X8) that were for mortar rounds I believe. Each one holds about 5-6000 rounds and opens on either end with watertight seals, and are stackable. The 50 and 100 rd. CCI plastic boxes fill in the spaces around the bricks nicely, so no room is wasted inside the containers.

I figure with a half-dozen .22's you can go through ammo pretty quickly just fooling around, and since it doesn't take up much space I can always trade any extra I have for other stuff if the you know what ever hits the fan!

Regards,

Norm
 
Svashtar said:
.22 LR is one of those things you can never have too much of. A few years ago I started making it a habit that every time I went over to the Wal-Mart, or Big 5, or Outdoor World or my indoor shooting range, to pick up either 1 or 2 boxes of Stingers (50 rds, ea.), a 100 rd. plastic box of CCI mini-mags, or one of those $9 or $10 500-550 rd. bricks/boxes of ammo, Remington, Winchester, Federal, whatever. It's totally painless if you buy it this way.

I didn't buy any at all during the close to 18 months that I was out of work, but last time I counted a few months ago, I was still somewhere past 30,000 rounds, with at least 5000 of that in Stingers. I filled up all the "Fat-Fifty" cans I had, and then switched to grenade ammo boxes or some double sided ones (18X18X8) that were for mortar rounds I believe. Each one holds about 5-6000 rounds and opens on either end with watertight seals, and are stackable. The 50 and 100 rd. CCI plastic boxes fill in the spaces around the bricks nicely, so no room is wasted inside the containers.

I figure with a half-dozen .22's you can go through ammo pretty quickly just fooling around, and since it doesn't take up much space I can always trade any extra I have for other stuff if the you know what ever hits the fan!

Regards,

Norm
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Norm:

I really need to show your post to my wife. I have done the same as you, but on a much smaller scale and can only claim having mebbe 5K rounds of .22LR in .50 cans. My wife thinks I am "nuts" for having an "adequate" supply of ammo around for life's little unexpected moments...LOL. It is nice to know that others suffer from this sickness too.

Jeff
 
My choice would be very simple:
USAS 12 gauge (Fully automatic shotgun) with 1 drum mag and at least 8 regular mags. Ammo ranging from 18.5mm Flechette Sabor rounds to good old 00 buck.
For my hand gun, it would be one of two choices: Beretta 93R or the Glock 18C.. Ammo for these would have to be Magsafe 60 grain. Tested to have more stopping power than that of a NightHawk in .44.
And lastly, the blade: I choose the Robert Linger WSK (Wilderness Survival Knife).. I sh*t you not. This knife will save your life, if it comes down to it.
 
ronin4312 said:
And lastly, the blade: I choose the Robert Linger WSK (Wilderness Survival Knife).. I sh*t you not. This knife will save your life, if it comes down to it.
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Do you have any knowledge of khukuris?:rolleyes: :p ;) Welcome too the Cantina/Psycho Ward!:D
 
Welcome to the Cantina, Ronin.

Interesting choices you have. Since 9mm is so much easier to carry than 12 gauge, I might think you would want at least some decent hollow points or other good expanding ammo with a little more penetration. You might want to consider Federal's excellent EFMJ.

John

PS- what's a Nighthawk?
 
Robert Nighthawk plays the blues.

ps I wouldn't bet on a 60 grain anything to save my life.


munk
 
munk said:
Robert Nighthawk plays the blues.

ps I wouldn't bet on a 60 grain anything to save my life.


munk
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Munk, I normally wouldn't either normally unless it was .223, but with the MagSafe he's got a point. The stuff hits like a freight train, imparting almost 100% of it's energy to the target. Better than Glaser Safety slugs or Cor-bons even IMO. The downside is that enough to fill your one Glock mag will cost you at least $50, so it is only useful for basic personal protection which is what it is designed for, and not stockpiling for plinking or other uses. I have enough for my Glock 19 with 17 rd. mag and a spare 15 round mag on the side, and $3.00 per round is about what it costs. I also carry a 15 rd. mag full of them in the Keltec folding Sub-9 I bought from John (Spectre), with the second mag being some carefully hoarded Black Talons. I figure my life is worth it, and the bottom line is that most standard .9 mm FMJ or TMJ loadings are marginal performers. You would have to be a millionaire to run it in a select-fire 18C with the default 33 round mag, and stockpile enough to do any good. 18C, OK, if that's what you want, but 3 or 4,000 rounds of bulk Federal 115 grain ball is more like it.

In .40 and .45 the MagSafes are even more impressive ballistically and well worth the money. I like the fact that my hi-cap nine hits like a .44 with a 17 rd. mag and 1 more up the spout in a package that is polymer based lightweight and less than 7" long X 5" in height and is consequently very easily concealable.

Also noticed that everything else listed in the post, from the shotgun (Class 3 weapon) to the drum mags to the flechette rounds to the Glock 18 is unfortunately currently illegal in many states right now, so obtaining any of it could be a problem. Of course it is here; YMMV.

Regards,

Norm

P.S., if I may speak for Ronin, I think he meant to say "Redhawk" or "Blackhawk", but being a knife nut like most of us said "Nighthawk" (Buck) instead. Done it myself a few times! ;) Welcome to the Cantina Ronin, and hope you will stick around! There are several great knives here that could do much of the work of your tracker and more, that have to be held and swung to be believed!

N.
 
ronin4312 said:
And lastly, the blade: I choose the Robert Linger WSK (Wilderness Survival Knife).. I sh*t you not. This knife will save your life, if it comes down to it.
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That is a beautiful knife. Like the standard Randall's it is in O-1, so needs to be taken care of, but it is a fearsome looking beast. TOPS makes a tracker model that someone mentioned here a while back, that is overpriced IMO, and the standard is Becks, but I don't know if he makes them anymore. There was another guy making them as well. but I like the handle on the Linger custom one the best.

Norm
 
I used to load a home defense gun with them (revolver), until speaking with an emergency room doc.
I don't believe that they work any better than a good expanding hollowpoint, and they do have disadvantages -
like lack of penetration. They may not get through an obstacle when in use (e.g. arm or coat).
The prefragmented loads also shoot low, and I would never rely on them in an auto. They may make sense in some scenarios for home defense, but that is it.
I will not rely on any round unless I have put more than 100 of them through a magazine without any failures to feed. 150 is better than 100.
This is costly with Magsafes.
They are OK in revolvers if very closup and personal is all that is at stake.
They do give you very high velocities and reasonable accuracy, but only closeup. I have chronographed the stuff out of a revolver, and they do what they say that they do. I would not trust them in an auto, or at any distance.
I also would not recommend the 357 mag versions. Some lots were over pressure and cases had to be hammered out of the cylinder with a pencil.
I prefer good conventionlal loads in my guns. If I want 357 power, I'll load good 357s in my gun.
If I want more power in a 9, I can always use a good +p or +p+ load.
I am satisfied with +p Remington 115 gr hp. It has reasonable power, little blast, and is effective and easy to shoot.
 
devo55 said:
Norm:

I really need to show your post to my wife. I have done the same as you, but on a much smaller scale and can only claim having mebbe 5K rounds of .22LR in .50 cans. My wife thinks I am "nuts" for having an "adequate" supply of ammo around for life's little unexpected moments...LOL. It is nice to know that others suffer from this sickness too.

Jeff
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Jeff, I solved the problem by taking my wife shooting at the outdoor range once, with my brother-in-law and son. They had 10/22's, my wife had her choice of 2 Ruger pistols, and I had a Calico M-105 with 100 rd. magazine. We just plinked at paper targets and spinning targets for about 3 hours and burned up an easy 2000 rounds. Once she saw how fast this stuff can go, then she stopped bitching when I started hanging onto a few extra rounds. Not to mention it is almost the perfect trade goods; it doesn't decay if taken care of, and is compact and easy to store and barter with if needed.

Of course, that's just .22 lr. I try to keep at least 1-2000 rounds of everything else I shoot around, and at least 3X that of .223. You never know when our fearless leaders will pass another law...!

Norm
 
arty said:
I used to load a home defense gun with them (revolver), until speaking with an emergency room doc.
I don't believe that they work any better than a good expanding hollowpoint, and they do have disadvantages -
like lack of penetration. They may not get through an obstacle when in use (e.g. arm or coat).
The prefragmented loads also shoot low, and I would never rely on them in an auto. They may make sense in some scenarios for home defense, but that is it.
I will not rely on any round unless I have put more than 100 of them through a magazine without any failures to feed. 150 is better than 100.
This is costly with Magsafes.
They are OK in revolvers if very closup and personal is all that is at stake.
They do give you very high velocities and reasonable accuracy, but only closeup. I have chronographed the stuff out of a revolver, and they do what they say that they do. I would not trust them in an auto, or at any distance.
I also would not recommend the 357 mag versions. Some lots were over pressure and cases had to be hammered out of the cylinder with a pencil.
I prefer good conventionlal loads in my guns. If I want 357 power, I'll load good 357s in my gun.
If I want more power in a 9, I can always use a good +p or +p+ load.
I am satisfied with +p Remington 115 gr hp. It has reasonable power, little blast, and is effective and easy to shoot.
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You are certainly entitled to your opoinion, however I keep them for 6 months to a year as recommended, and then replace them with fresh ammo, so have fired at least 100 rounds of them through my Glock. I have a Bar-Sto custom fitted and ramped barrel in my G19 that will feed anything, so as expected have had no problems. The tips are sealed and they feed flawlessly.

They are not meant to be used at a distance. They are not a hunting round. They are for close up personal defense and out of a handgun with a 4" barrel I am not going to be shooting at distances over about 7 yards anyway. At people, at defensive ranges, they have been demonstrated to be far superior to conventional or even +P ammo in stopping power, which is what you want. I am not interested in my +P+ Georgia Arms 200 gr. load sailing through the bad guy and the 3 apartments behind him. The MagSafes hit, transfer all their power, create an enormous temporary wound cavity, and then stop.

Ironically, I have carried them in 3 autoloaders, but in my 629 3" carry and Model 19 2.5" carry I use Glasers. Those blue tips seem to catch the eye of anyone looking down the bore!

Regards,

Norm
 
Svashtar,
You are exactly correct, I meant Blackhawk instead of Nighthawk. Thanks for your correction.
Yvsa,
I have heard of khukuris, and I find them to be a bit bulky (big).. For all that it is capable of, the WSK (not the tracker, there is a difference) is the best bang for the buck (in MY opinion).

Most of the equip. I picked is in fact illegal, but me being an ex-Airborne Ranger, I was privy to getting my hands on some very exotic weaponry. Peruvian Navy SEALs (yes, there is such a thing) use the USAS 12 as their point man's weapon. We were trained to not use full auto unless absolutely nec. Of course I didn't listen, and had to open the b*tch up. The kick was rediculous. Shoulder ached for a few days, but I fell in love with it, none the less. I always told myself, that no matter what happens, I have to find a way to get my mits on one of those. Now in terms of my choice ammo; we'll start off with the shotgun load.

Flechette rounds pretty much are a shotgun load with what look like mini arrows (really just pins with stablizers at the ends). They have an effective range of 300m and max out at 1000m. The damage that is caused by these things has to been seen to be beleived. My father put me on to them; he used them in Viet Nam. I think you get the best of both worlds with these. You get good stopping power and above average distance, with a shotgun.

Now, my choice for handgun (especially of the 9mm variety) was simple, firepower superiority. I can go from semi to full auto if the need requires. I will say that the Glock def. feels better in your hands then that of the 93R.
But what sense does it make to have a hand-cannon if you can't put lead on the target, RIGHT? That's one of the reasons why I went with the MagSafe ammo. Not only for the stopping power but because of their recoil reducing properties. I find that they really help with your follow-up shots.. You get a better grouping with the second & third shot. So for me, getting a tight group from ammo that hits so hard it would drop a bull (don't go crazy on this, I'm figuratively speaking) is key. I know the ammo is expensive, but could you put a price on what it would take to save your life, I think not. I see it like this, it's better to have and not want, then to want and not have.
 
Well, you certainly have some interesting ideas, Ronin. Most of the military/ex-mil guys that were also serious gun people whose opinions I've heard seemed to be mostly "deep penetrator" types- which actually makes a lot of sense, since through and through tends to be more lethal; of course, multiple hits of a through and through tend to be more immediate, thereby obviating the need for elusive magic rounds.

I actually have seen the effects of some flechette rounds. Anthing that sticks into plywood at close range, unless specifically for riot control, won't be my first choice. Could you give me a source for the effective range estimate for the 12 gauge flechette rounds? This source- though of dubious credibility since it's selling flechettes- only claims kills made to 100 yards in 'Nam.

I was down the street from 2nd Bat at Lewis (A 1-5 Inf). Who were you with?

John
 
The Nam era flechettes I used had (both 12 ga and 40m/m out of M148 and M79s) far less than 100 yards. They simply didn't have sufficient mass to retain anything against drag. They were rarely used in fact in the field since the standard 00 buckshot was so much more effective and widely available.

I believe a chronograph would show the rapid decelleration of the projectiles...

Just my $.02....as a 12 year SAMTU (Small Arms Marksmanship Training Unit) Instructor. FWIW, they are no longer (long since in fact) in the inventory.

This is not to say that flechette technology cannot be applied effectively...but it wasn't in the Viet Nam period.

Also FWIW -Ofiicial Review
 
a savage 24 in 22lr/20ga, and my .357 6" S&W, 16-18" AK + pocket knife. I am sneaky and a good shot, if I need firepower I will liberate something from the bad guys. ;) The guns I want will keep me fed and the ammo is easy to come by, .22 is easy to carry. 3" 20 gauge slugs will kill anything withing 75 yards if you do your part. .22 is quiet, .357 will also digest 38 specials.

I never had a Nylon 66, but I had a Nylon 76. Remember those? It was same differance, but lever action. All those old Remingtons were cool! Light weight, accurate, damn near indestructable. Wish I still had one :grumpy:
 
Hey Norm(Svashtar), munk was just speaking German, so technically he was still correct ~ "w" sounds like "v". If he used the "v" like you do, it would sound like an "f", and then he'd have you and everybody else wondering what the hell he was yammering about! Jeesh, I thought you guys were more worldly!

All I can say is that the Quackipus better not be bringing his one legged dancing girls, 'cause they suck at dancing and I don't think we could get much work out of them anyhow. Besides, every one knows they are thieves and scalliwags, and would promise me Kama Sutra delights, only to steal my one and only Durba.
 
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