Traditional folders of Hungary

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Attila72 said:
Rózsadomb is in Budapest. I live 120km away the near Balaton lake in Balaton Felvidéki National Park. Beautiful place.
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Thanks for showing us these beautiful knives Attila.

I have just been taking a look around Lake Belaton with Google Streetview. It looks like a beautiful place to live.

And I very much enjoyed looking through the pictures on this link you posted. It answered a lot of the questions I had on the construction and inlay motifs of those knives.

http://kesportal.hu/2011/12/28/egy-kocsis-nader-szuletese/

Very intricate, careful, detailed hand work.

Is it the custom for all men to carry a pocket knife in Hungary?

Are there womens knives or traditional Hungarian kitchen knives as well?
 
Cambertree said:
Thanks for showing us these beautiful knives Attila.

I have just been taking a look around Lake Belaton with Google Streetview. It looks like a beautiful place to live.

And I very much enjoyed looking through the pictures on this link you posted. It answered a lot of the questions I had on the construction and inlay motifs of those knives.

http://kesportal.hu/2011/12/28/egy-kocsis-nader-szuletese/

Very intricate, careful, detailed hand work.

Is it the custom for all men to carry a pocket knife in Hungary?

Are there womens knives or traditional Hungarian kitchen knives as well?
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"Is it the custom for all men to carry a pocket knife in Hungary?" No, it is not. :D I like to work with it. It is my hobby. I have little time.
Another your question: There is no separate knife for women. The women knife same man only short. Hungarian traditional kitchen knives are not. Of course, there are makers.

For example:
http://www.szasza.net/kes.htm

Thank you that you have been to virtual at me :)
 
Attila72 said:
"Is it the custom for all men to carry a pocket knife in Hungary?" No, it is not. :D I like to work with it. It is my hobby. I have little time.
Another your question: There is no separate knife for women. The women knife same man only short. Hungarian traditional kitchen knives are not. Of course, there are makers.

For example:
http://www.szasza.net/kes.htm

Thank you that you have been to virtual at me :)
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Attila, there are no woman knives, but there are "gyerek bicskák", intended for chidren that could fit a woman. Usually there are simpler.
A few patterns , fejesgörbe , maskara, náder, rác, are sometime made in several sizes, some can fit for women.
 
Thanks for your answers, Attila (and Jolipapa). :thumbup:

It's interesting looking at that link you just posted that a lot of modern hunting and outdoor knives are very similar the world over. I guess that might be the influence of the internet and international forums like this.

But those Cakli and your big Fejesgörbe are both similar in shape to some other old European knives, yet very different in style to anything I've seen, not only for the intricate motifs, but those soldered metal bolsters in the middle of the handles too. They're very beautiful knives.

Attila and Jolipapa - if you have time would you care to school us on what the maskara, náder and rác knife patterns are? Pictures would be excellent and much appreciated.
 
Cambertree said:
Thanks for your answers, Attila (and Jolipapa). :thumbup:

It's interesting looking at that link you just posted that a lot of modern hunting and outdoor knives are very similar the world over. I guess that might be the influence of the internet and international forums like this.

But those Cakli and your big Fejesgörbe are both similar in shape to some other old European knives, yet very different in style to anything I've seen, not only for the intricate motifs, but those soldered metal bolsters in the middle of the handles too. They're very beautiful knives.

Attila and Jolipapa - if you have time would you care to school us on what the maskara, náder and rác knife patterns are? Pictures would be excellent and much appreciated.
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Here is a link: http://www.bicska.hu/product-category/bicskak/kis_noi/
On the left side it is written TERMÉKEK Termékek means: products
There are clearly visible Hungarian traditional forms.

Help:
nagy= big
közép=medium
kis= small

Attila
 
Attila72 said:
Here is a link: http://www.bicska.hu/product-category/bicskak/kis_noi/
On the left side it is written TERMÉKEK Termékek means: products
There are clearly visible Hungarian traditional forms.

Help:
nagy= big
közép=medium
kis= small

Attila
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Thanks again. :thumbup:

I really like that blade and handle shape of the Grószi maskara (I hope I said that right).





These blade shapes look very useful as well.
 
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Cambertree said:
Thanks again. 👍

I really like that blade and handle shape of the Grószi maskara (I hope I said that right).





These blade shapes look very useful as well.
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As indicated by Attila 👍, the best site to have an idea of various patterns is Revész, he is not a registered site but I think I can use it as a catalogue ( most knives are unavailable # nincs készleten) :D

Attila mentioned terms useful to know (I won't bother you with pronunciation :) ) i can complete with a few others.
kés : knife
bicska : folder knife
about the patterns :
Szénacél : carbon steel
Pakli : bolster
Réz : brass
Arató : harvester
Egyedi : special
Fejesgörbe # curved with head
Gombászkés : mushroom knife
Gráci probali comes fron the Austrian town Graz (spell Grác in Hungarian).
Juhász : shepherd (sheeps)
Körmölõ : scrapper, another shepherd pattern
Nö(i) : (of/for) woman
széles : wide
Szalonnázó : derives of szalonna : bacon. Similar to the Melon tester pattern. Here is my father's (a very plain old one) in action :D

szalonnazo.jpg
 
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Gratulálok a szép bicskákhoz, Attila!

You have the cream of the cream regarding the Hungarian traditional folders. :thumbup: :thumbup:
I wish I could afford a Kocsis fejesgörbe.
I read somewhere that he is not making these highly decorated folders any more. :(
 
Hogy vagy?

Jó napot kívánok. Hello my Magyar brothers. I was born first generation Hungarian/American both my parents came over in '57 and became US citizens. My mother is from Kunsziget/Gyor Megye, es apja a Miskolc/Borsod-Abaúj-Zemplén megye.

I've been back home a few times, most recently in '06 with my daughter and mom, I love it back home and Attila, next time I go home I'll have to visit you for a few drinks and some good Hungarian szolonna and Hungarian rye bread and fresh pepper, onion cucumber and tomatoes. :)

The only Hungarian knife I have is a Josef Sziraki Sleeveboard Lobster on pearl from the mid 1800s, here's a quick picture, I'll have to post more. :)

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Here's the info given to me a few years ago by a member here on the forums.

ETA

littleknife said:
Hi Ted,

I just found this thread, and as fate would have it, just yesterday read two Hungarian short stories from the late Century about master Sziráky.
His name is pronounced 'Yoh-zheff’ 'Seer-ah-kee’, with the stress on the first syllable , the ‘ee’-s are short, the ‘aaah’ is long (what you say when the doctor tells you to open your mouth to see your throat).

The following info is taken from a popular Hungarian knife related blog I will link at the end of the post.

Joseph Sziráky, frequently spelled also as Sziráki (Sziráky József or Sziráki József, written the Hungarian way) was one of the greatest - if not THE greatest - Hungarian master cutlers of the 19th Century, and certainly the most famous among them all. His fame was such, that he was the hero of, or was mentioned in several short stories (novellas) written by some of the greatest Hungarian writers of the 19th Century, including Kálmán Mikszáth and István Tömörkény. Given, that the Hungarian literature could never gain broader recognition, his fame was doomed to remain limited to the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and later to Hungary.

He was a pre-eminent member of the once famous cutlery industry established in the Southern part of the Empire, and now Hungary, in the city of Szeged.
A bustling multinational city, with its Hungarian, German, Serbian, Slovak, Jewish population, a regional center of agricultural commerce and industry located near the Tisa (Tisza) river, Szeged (similarly to other Hungarian cities at the time) lured in the early 19th century several German cutlers to establish local cutlery manufacture.
The cutlers brought with themselves the German guild system, and that system - in some form - remained central to the Hungarian cutlery manufacture even to this very day. Even the Hungarian cutlery-making terminology is of German origin to this very day (even though the terms are not strictly German any more, due to the transformation they had underwent in the Hungarian environment).

Among the founders of the Szeged Cutlers Guild was also a cutler called Sziráky Mátyás (Matthias Sziráky), who opened his workshop in 1825. His son, Sziráky József (1832-1899) inherited and expanded his father’s business. As an apprentice, he visited Austria, Italy and Switzerland. The practice of wandering apprenticeship guaranteed that the young artisans not only improved their skills, but also learned the newest techniques, methods and stylistic vogues of their time.
When József returned home, he worked as a maker of medical instruments, but soon he was making mainly knives (even though there are records that he was also making ‘fokos’).

His most famous pocketknife pattern is the fish shaped knife (halas bicska). According to contemporary anecdotal sources, after a devastating flood of the Tisza river at Szeged in the 1870’s, the then already famous master was walking on the newly built levies with the supervisor of the earthworks, count Lajos Tisza, when they saw a fish leaping from the river. Count Tisza asked master Sziráky if he could make a pocketknife like the fish they saw. The master soon obliged, and the famous fish form pocketknife was born.
Traditionally it was made with mother of pearl scales and it became one of the most popular patterns in Hungary, especially around Szeged. József Sziráky's descendants continued the trade until 1939.

Here is the link to the blog I mentioned at the beginning of this post:

http://kesportal.hu/2012/01/12/sziraki-uram-es-az-angliusok/

There you can see two of József Sziráky’s surviving pocketknives, both are from the collection of master Ferenc Kocsis, today’s preeminent traditional pocket knife maker in Hungary.

Also, a link to another short story, about buying a pocketknife in master József Sziráky's workshop:

http://kesportal.hu/2012/02/10/bicskavasarlas/

These two posts I linked above were done by the Hungarian knife enthusiast Edrose (Rózsa Edvárd), and also contain novellas by the Hungarian writers I mentioned above.

Edrose writes his own separate Opinel knife blog too, which besides in Hungarian, can be enjoyed in French and English versions too:

http://opinelno08.blogspot.hu/2013/02/lets-start-with-introduction.html


Ted, if your lobster is indeed made by master Sziráky (or in his workshop under his supervision), you have a REAL TREASURE, my friend! It would make you an instant celebrity (and in the same time a target of green envy) among both the Hungarian knife nuts and people obsessed with Hungarian history and literature.

I am happy, that the knife ended up not only at a person, who would value it as a nicely made pocketknife, but who also happens to be of Hungarian descent, so would value its cultural importance too. :)
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We will be more Hungarians people here. This is good! :thumbup:
Üdvözöllek benneteket, littleknife, T.Erdélyi!
 
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