Trespassing

Rat-
'Round here your best bet is to go to the county clerk's or treasurer's office, or at the Natural Resources Conservation Service office, or Farm Service Agency office. Ask for a plat map for your county. (or whatever county you are interested in- you might have to go to that county to find one) This is a book that has a separate page for each township, showing how the land is divided up, and labeled with the acres and landowner's name. Here's an example from 1909. Ours cost $15.
Here's a website selling them; a search might turn up someplace cheaper, or if you're lucky you might even find your county for free online. Minnesota plat books They are only published every several years, so some land may have changed hands in the meantime.

Or, just go down to a local company or co-op that serves farmers, selling bulk fertilizers and chemicals, etc. They will almost certainly have plat maps they use to find their customers' fields, and may be willing to run a few copies if you're nice. ;)
 
Most of my woods time nowadays is spent in the Pine Barrens, anyone who knows Jersey knows this to be a confusing mismash of public, private and state owned land that may or may not be legally accessable, depending on the area.

I generally try to stick to the areas near fire roads, I know them to be public. I sometimes wander off into private land and, when possible, I ask permission to be there.

I am a bit more respectful of the land I tread on than most, I always try to make sure nobody would ever know I was there. Not that I'm trying to hide my tresspass, but out of respect for the owners and their land.

If ever I run across a land owner, I always try to be as respectful as possible and make sure they feel its OK for me to be there. I have never had a problem with anyone throwing me off their land of cursing me for being there. I usually have a trashbag with me to pick up litter and that is usually a quick way to a landowners good graces.
 
pricecw said:
Now, my neighbors have been given permission to walk and hike on my land... I also have permission to be on their land and to hunt there when I am up during season. We respect each other, and that has in turn garnered respect.
... If you do not respect an individual enough to request from them the privledge of being on their land, why should they respect you?
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Agreed.

Shann said:
It almost impossible now to find a place to hunt because everybody has posted their land unless you have enough money to buy your own land or know people that own land.
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I've heard these sentiments of longing from others before. "Unless you have enough money to buy your own." Well, yeah, that's how it works. It's been my experience that lots of folks who do own land, don't just have enough money sitting around. They commit themselves to the goal, and work hard and save for it. How many of those guys have a fancy gun, camo, and other gear, with a new 4-wheeler & pickup truck to haul it all? They can sink $25000 into that stuff pretty quick, when instead they could have bought a nice patch of woods of their own. It's all about priorities. I realize you were not really trying to say this; I merely used your phrase for an example.
 
The Last Confederate said:
Yes you can, if trepassing is a crime in your state, then you can hold them for the authorities.
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Not quite true. Citizen's arrest may only be used if the crime is a felony--in this case, felony trespass. What consitutes felony trespass varies from state to state. If someone is on your property, it's probably a misdemeanor trespass, in which case... you can't hold them.

In most cases, you can only employ citizen's arrest to prevent an individual from escaping--basically, a temporary situation between the time you call the police and the time they arrive. If you arrest (or in North Carolina, detain) individuals and then call the police, you're illegally holding them.

Citizen's arrest is a situation fraught with legal problems.

In Illinois, for the benefit of The Last Confederate, trespassing is a misdemeanor offense. It only becomes a felony in the courtroom if the accused has a prior misdemeanor trespassing charge. *You* as a landowner do not make that distinction--therefore, a citizen's arrest could NEVER be legally employed against a trespasser.
 
Watchful said:
NIn Illinois, for the benefit of The Last Confederate, trespassing is a misdemeanor offense. It only becomes a felony in the courtroom if the accused has a prior misdemeanor trespassing charge. *You* as a landowner do not make that distinction--therefore, a citizen's arrest could NEVER be legally employed against a trespasser.
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First off, please note that I did not say anything about "citizen's arrest" earlier, that was bulgron.


Second you are simply wrong. I have done it. A little over 2 years ago, I caught a man trespassing on my property. When I asked him to identify himself and he refused, I held him at gun point until the police arrived and arrested him for "criminal trespass".

If ANYONE refuses your directions to leave while on your property without permission, and/or refuses to leave, you can use whatever force necessary to remove/detain.
 
The Last Confederate said:
If ANYONE refuses your directions to leave while on your property without permission, and/or refuses to leave, you can use whatever force necessary to remove/detain.
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Given that pointing a loaded gun at someone as a threat of death or serious physical harm is a felony pretty much everywhere in the U.S. (assault with a deadly weapon) unless that action is privileged, it might be good to check your local law carefully. The law is emphatically not the same in all states on the issues discussed above.
 
In California here , one has to be cautious where they tresspass , lest they stumble onto/into a vast Marijuana garden or a Meth lab.
:p
 
As a landowner and an inheriter of over 1000 acres in PA and 150 acres in Kentucky I know exactly where alot of you are coming from who dont want trespassers on your land. I have had treestands stolen, buckets shot up, cattle harrased, sheep stolen/killed, mules spooked, game poached the list goes on. I spend alot of time scouting the land, filling my back ponds with trout or bass in the spring, putting stands up etc, I dont want them stolen or screwed with. Fact is I dislike intentional tresspassers.

I, myfather and cousins have had to kick many off. You wanna get me pissed off, walk on my land. I wont tresspass on others land and I expect the same from them. Many of my friends have asked permission and i give it if they are respectful and ask to come back then that is fine....but they ask. I have asked to hunt on others land, sometimes its a yes, sometimes its a no but I asked; it took 5 minutes and many times I gain a friend in them.

Possum I share alot of your views, I guess if you dont own land or have never gone through what I/we have gone through you just dont know how violating it feels.

Rule: Just ask.
 
Take a picture of the trespasser.

I've never done it, but in my experience when the people who I have asked to leave were aware that I was recording things like their name and vehicle license number, it had significant "extra effect."

Scott
 
Beezaur thats good advice . There is nothing like getting your picture taken to change your perspective .

I have only owned a small piece of land up north . It was called a piece of pie . Its a little slice cut off another persons property . Dug my own well , dug my own septic system . Discovered you can actually dig a hole deep enough you can,t climb out of . (freaky feeling)

I guess if I really look at it I wouldn,t want to look out my front window and see someone walking around . If I had woods and came across them there they had better be respectful . Hunting without permission . No way . A walk in the woods to cool off after a hard day . I can,t honestly say until they are in front of me .

Sold my truck , own the dinkiest car you can imagine . Looking for swampland with deer on it . Its all I will be able to afford and in truth I want the wildest land possible .Proabably stop those damn trespassers from bothering me . L:O:L
 
I don't trespass on private land, period. I have a good relationship with the farmer who owns a huge section of land that I camp on. Below his property is a forest preserve. They discourage camping but then they don't do anything about it if you do. I keep my footprint very low key down there.

Part of the land I use here is public land leased out to a mining company. If you ask them permission to go up on the mountain they will tell you all about preserving the delicate ecosystem up there. At the same time they are stripmining the other side of the range, hypocracy at its best. My goal is to take as many photos as possible before it winds up as Japanese steel on the Tokyo skyline. I don't lose any sleep over it. Mac
 
Thomas Linton said:
Given that pointing a loaded gun at someone as a threat of death or serious physical harm is a felony pretty much everywhere in the U.S. (assault with a deadly weapon) unless that action is privileged, it might be good to check your local law carefully. The law is emphatically not the same in all states on the issues discussed above.
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I know, I became very familiar with Illinois law when I earned my Criminal Justice degree, my criminal law class used the Illinois Compiled Laws for our text.

It was perfectly legal for me to order him to stop moving and remain where he was until the police arrived.
 
holding someone just depends on the state, the laws are just so different and so are peoples attitudes. For example rat finkenstein spoke of MN, I grew up there and hunted often all it took was asking no problems different attitude now I live in TX try asking to hunt without a checkbook, as far as I can tell U won't have much luck but if u want to hold someone here I think it would be fine, just my guess based on the fact that down the road a little while ago a homeowner shot a tresspasser with the police standing right there, he was trying to run and the homeowner had the better shot no charges just an article in the paper. Different places different rules but I will say this, You can do whatever you want on my land whenever you want to do it, it's fine with me but I will say this I JUST GAVE THE SAME PERMISSION TO MY DOG he can do whatever he wants on my land also
 
I understand private landowner's feelings (I own land). In the state of Washington it is the law (see game laws, clearly stated) that you are tresspassing and can be arrested and fined if you are on private land and you do not have a WRITTEN permission slip. Where this really comes into a problem is in the private forests around the National forests. We were hunting through Gifford Pinchot National Forest deep in the woods. No signs, no fences, no roads. Came to a paved highway with a policeman on it. It seems the 100 yards (or so) between the road and the National Forest belonged to a large lumber company in ????. No one knew if they cared if we crossed their land. We could leagally walk across the land, but if our guns were loaded, we were hunting and that is tresspassing. If the National Forest had been a private land which we had written permission to hunt then we could NOT walk across the lumber company's land. (Private land can not block access to federal land). We had federal maps, state maps, private maps. None of them showed this private land. If a land owner says OK, but you don't get it in writing, you can and maybe arrested and fined.
We had to talk like crazy and beg to not be taken into coustody. Washington has had several governors whose stated goal was to "do away with hunting". Hence very strong wording in all state hunting laws.
Prime public land (around Mt. St. Helens) that had several thousand deer hunters each year, had just 448 total last year (shot 34 deer). The combination of closing all roads not paved and frustration of the access/trespasing problem has driven the hunter away. A stoppage of logging has also contributed.
Like I said, I am a land owner and I understand our frustrations. I also believe that within not to long a time hunting will be available only for the rich (or moderately weathly) and then there will be too few to defend hunting and the anti-hunters will win. The land I and my frends hunted for twenty years in eastern Washington had the hunting rites bought up by a private hunting group that was actually a business to re-sell the rights. Their quote to me to allow I and my one son to hunt deer, elk, and chuckar for one year on "their lease land" was $9,600.00. I am 60. I am concerned my grandsons will never have the chance to go hunting that I had.
Ron Athay
Vancouver, Wa.
 
To all you free-living trespassers: When you start paying mortgages, property taxes and homeowners liability insurance, come and talk to me.
Yes, I am the temporary caretaker of this land, and I pay a price for the privilege. You haven't paid the price for the privilege so you're going to respect my signs and listen to me.
For 20 years I never posted my land, and neither did the previous owners. It was probably never posted. I had no problem with any hikers or hunters passing through.


But three years ago somebody ripped up a sculpture I had built up on the hill, it included deer antlers. The antlers were stolen. I was deeply offended. I saw the tracks in the snow, where they entered my property, where they hovered around the sculpture, where they left the property. I felt like getting a gun and tracking them. I didn't.

But now this property is posted for the first time in history against hikers, hunters, and anybody else just wanting to enjoy the hills. It's too bad. I have to pay for the use of this land, and it's an affront to me to have other people abuse it.
 
Interesting thread....as a landowner myself, I can say there is nothing more frustrating to me than trespassers using my land. That said, I believe my definition of “trespasser” is likely to be more broad than some. Each year I have to deal with a group of individuals that intentionally allow their dogs to run through my farm in order to push the deer through and eventually off my land into a firing line on the opposite end of the property. No, a person never stepped foot on my land (maybe)…..but their dogs certainly did. Dogs used by these “hunters” (I use the term loosely here) to chase the game out of an area that was clearly posted. I spend a lot of time and money caring/cultivating my land to attract and hold deer/turkey. I enjoy hunting and the quiet time with my sons….having trespassers ruin that is unacceptable. The dogs can’t read the posted signs, but the groups that intentionally release dogs into private property can (I hope) and should be considered trespassers as well. Just my two cents…..
 
What if the "tresspasser" is merely walking through, or taking a pleasure walks. Most times I've tresspassed, this was all I've done, and the tresspassing was unintentional. Usually I can't even find the owners house in the event that I'd want to ask permission. I completely understand wanting to keep vandals out, I'd want to do that even to land I didn't own. It's just about common respect for our earth. A lot of people will go buy a machete or something and just go hacking away at a tree for fun, when there are plenty of fallen logs they could be using. Last time I made a fire with friends this happened and I asked them to please find something dead to chop at. They weren't even going to use the wood. It's like shooting a deer just to shoot it, then leaving the carcass there. At least nature will make good food out of it I suppose.

To me theres a big difference between chopping down live trees and throwing your beer cans everywhere and just waking a walk. If it's a place I go to often and I know theres trash there, I'll bring trashbags with me and clean-up myself.
 
I can see your logic Vivi, but what if you are sitting on your couch watching TV, and someone comes strolling through your front door, through the house, and out the back without a word to you. Or you come home and find someone has made himself at home in your absence, strewn trash around your house, eaten your food, slept in your bed.

I live on 360 acres that no one gave to me. I pay taxes on that acreage, maintain the pastures and fences, select trees from the woodlots for harvest, do erosion control, and hunt. I don't appreciate trespassers. I will approach and talk to them. Their attitude makes all the difference in the world as to where we go from there. The attitude that "no one was around, it is too much trouble to find the owner, so I am free to use it as I wish" will get the person escorted off with a warning at best.

My land is the same as my house. Mine. Respect the boundries of both or expect to suffer the consequences. There is plenty of publicly owned land everywhere for you to play on. Go to the trouble to find it. It isn't hard at all. Just don't be surprised that there are rules to follow there as well.

Codger
 
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