Update Re: Kyle Eichenseer

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Kit, it was a rant of sorts. A rant aimed at anyone from there who is on neither side or on their side only. However, there is a more obvious tone of Neautrality and defensiveness here by some. You have those like Dave who try and attack me personally for attacking Kyle(because he's from the other site?) becuase Kyle stole something. So, if Dave wants me to shut up. If anyone else who supports the other place and has "pull" over there wants me to shut my yap. I will IF you lean on the man and make him pay. This won't go away until Dan is made whole again. The only way this will be worked out for both paties involved is if members over there do something about Kyle. Otherwise all those people who've been victims of similar situations(as Dan, myself and Code 3 to name a few) involving those who've defended Kyle over there (publicy bashed Dan for asking politely for his stuff back)and defend that place over here (though there have been several bashes of it here and we are sorry) will continue to keep what little pressure we are keeping ON! Anyone over there want this done? I do and I'm over here. THEN HANDLE YOUR BUSINESS. It's your business because you are being offended by the occasional bash of the site and you stand in to defend the site though not Kyle necesarrily. You have commited yourself by doing so to doing what is right and getting together with the Administration over there and telling Kyle "pay up or else". I know that smacks the egos as anyone hates to be made to do anything but sometimes we just gotta do what we gotta do. Any other sentiment is neutral non commital "we stay out of the war but reap it's benefits" Switzerland bullsh*t! Everyone who's a member and feels the need to defend that place...HANDLE YOUR BUSINESS! Kyle is your business, he's inner circle, he's administration. Build that place a good reputation again and this won't have to happen. Shut me up, I dare you. come on shut me up! ;) :D

PS, Pardon the fragmented and run on sentences. Also, Moderators...please pardon my allusions to a certain web site. I know we are to keep it down. It is very hard as this argument implies muc bigger problems and as you can see some of us here feel it relevant to note. Sorry, really.
 
Kit, he does make knives. I have held one. A titanium piece but he isn't offcially a knife maker I know. Sorry if I have mislead anyone. He does customizing mostly correct?
 
Maestrodawg, the reason that I called you self-righteous was not because you offered to help Dan. It was because you made it sound like you were being such a good guy in making the offer and that others were bad guys because they weren't willing to back up their words with actions. Instead of just making the offer you immediately turned it into a challenge which I felt was aimed at taking the focus off Kyle and putting it on others instead. A red herring if you will. If I am mistaken in having that opinion, I apologize.

I don't know what you mean about my forgetting to bring up the Allan Blade matter. I have kept that issue alive for a couple of years and bring it back to the top often. Maybe Allan would have made good on all the deals he did without the constant bad press he was getting, maybe not. All I know is that it sure didn't hurt to keep the pressure on him. In fact, that is why I am doing what I am doing here. I do not believe that things like this should be let go. The only person that benefits from that is Kyle and after doing what he has done, he doesn't deserve to have this forgotten.

You called what he did a mistake. This isn't a mistake as far as I am concerned. When you make a mistake, if you have the chance to correct that it, you correct the mistake. Kyle has had every opportunity to make this right and he hasn't. He could have sent the damascus or the refund a hundred times and he hasn't. To me that means that whatever he did, he did on purpose, not by mistake.

Your solution of sending money to Dan does not address the issue. Besides that, do we then send money to everyone that posts that they have been ripped off by some unscrupulous person? Why should this be done for Dan and not for all those that have been ripped off by Steve Corkum, Dale Reif, etc?

Sorry if this post drags you back to a place you would rather be done with.
 
Well, I have been monitoring and posting about this subject from the beginning.I feel sorry for Dan.I feel sorry for anybody that has had a transaction that hasn't been good.I don't know all the intimate details of the transaction,we rarely do,as the two involved have to be willing to show full documentation of the whole transaction to include e-mails.So we all can make reasonable judement/opinion on what is provided to us.
There is enough information here to make a decision whether anyone wants to involve themselves with a transaction with either Dan or Eich.

I'm a member in short standing at the "other" forum that keeps getting referenced.I was almost banned there myself.People get banned at some forums and flourish at others. Each forum has a different set of rules and code of conduct.I have been on dozens of different forums,and they all have people that disagree with rules or reactions to posts made there.You don't agree with the way the forums are run,you don't go there.Same as we are at Bladeforums, as guests of a privately owned forum.You don't like the way it is run,then start your own forums.

My opinion here is this thread being pressure put on it by keeping it alive while making snyd remarks about the other forum is really fueling tension between the members of both forums which alot of us are members of both.Obviously,some people have been banned or have other persoanl problems with administration or members from there which really fuel their persistence.I don't have a problem with anybody here nor there.

The fact is what we are talking about is one instance or situation that there was a problem,a rather small amount of money involved.I'm not condoning what happened here,but it is apparant that we have come to the end of the road with no further resolution will follow.I'm glad that Dan got the biggest part of the deal back which was the knife.What happend to the other part? I guess we are here all left to speculate,but we don't know the answer.
If anybody does a search on either party,this thread will come up.It is a matter of record.Alot worse has happend to people here,and had not nearly gotten the same attention.Please gentleman,don't use Dan as an excuse or as a platform to push a personal grudge or issue.In my opinion,I would like to see this thread die off,and not be a continous wound,that keeps an unhealthy tension amongst the members of both forums.I can say confidently that this thread has made it's point,and does not need to continue.Bashing a person into oblivion,doesn't alway's have a positive effect imho.
 
I don't know,I don't own the site,nor run the site.If they do for no reason,then there should be no attraction to be a member there.I mean why try so hard to get in to a site you don't like what it stands for?
Is this about Dan or is this just for a cross forum War? This thread is being used to push other peoples personal grudges against another forum,and lost it's integrity for the original purpose early on.People that sitback and look at it unbiasedly can see what others apparantly cannot.This thread is making everyone look like S***!

I don't have any problem with anybody here.If you have been banned at the "other" forum unfairly for no reason,then you are entitled to not be pleased.I'm sure alot of people have been banned from alot of different forums,sometimes people just rub people the wrong way.Yes,all it takes is to say something someone doesn't like.I have heard of people being banned before they even joined a particular forum not the one that people keep referencing fyi.
In the big picture of things,Who gives F***! Life is to short to spend your whole life being consumed my childish B.S.
People can alway's reference this thread for feedback before engaging in business with either party,that is why this forum is here.To inform people of an experience good or bad,not engaging in a cross forum War because of personal grudges,using someone elses thread as a platform imho.
 
As far as I am concerned this has nothing to do with another forum. It has to do with Kyle and his treatment of another member of the knife community.
 
I have been reading this thread on a daily basis. It is time to KILL IT!!!! The problem is between too men not two forums. Everybody knows what happened. put this thread out of it's misery before it causes more tension and problem's then it is worth. For the record I belong to both forums and enjoy each very much. thanks Pete
 
I have never been "fully" banned from anywhere, yet :D , just loss of title but that's not here, it's there.......

However, this only involves stuff that happened HERE as the issue resides here in GB&U.

I just don't get the sense anyone here will protect Kyle simply because he and they are members of an elite group of any specific forum. Rather, it is probably that the members of the
elite group feels this involves only Kyle and Dan and not them as the only parties to this sorry transaction is Kyle and Dan.

And for once in recent history I agree with the elite......................
 
wolfmann601 said:
I have never been "fully" banned from anywhere, yet :D , just loss of title but that's not here, it's there.......

However, this only involves stuff that happened HERE as the issue resides here in GB&U.

I just don't get the sense anyone here will protect Kyle simply because he and they are members of an elite group of any specific forum. Rather, it is probably that the members of the
elite group feels this involves only Kyle and Dan and not them as the only parties to this sorry transaction is Kyle and Dan.

And for once in recent history I agree with the elite......................
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It is not an elite group.It is just a different type of forum,like a brotherhood.
We have that at Bladeforums here as well,it is just different not better,not worse.I consider everybody here my family,even if we disagree.We are all just human beings,we don't alway's have to be right.Sometimes both sides may be right or have valid differences of opinions.People get too emotional at forums,and sometimes we say things we shouldn't,and we will get called out for it and corrected.In some cases we get banned from places,sometimes wrongly and other times we deserve what we got.At the end of the day though our lives go on to bigger and more important things in our life besides our computer screens.We all have to live everyday with what decisions we make in our lives,some of them are good,some not so good.It is okay to have an opinion about what affects our families here on-line,as long as it doesn't go over board or consume the life out of us.It is alright to say what you have to say,but in this case I think it has gone it's course.If Dan want's to pursue a legal recourse,then that is for him to decide or pursue to force resolution,after all he is the one that has to make that decision.Is it worth it? Well most people find it isn't worth the hassle over a small amount even if they live in the same Country.

Does Eich get away with anything if this thread if it dies? Nope,I don't think anybody walks away a winner here.I just think we all walk away with another of life's learning experiences.

To me the people like Corkum,Reif(spelling?) etc.These guy's that make a living at harming people and stealing money deserve more attention then this thread is getting imho.
 
TOMBSTONE said:
.....................In some cases we get banned from places,sometimes wrongly and other times we deserve what we got.......................
Does Eich get away with anything if this thread if it dies? Nope,I don't think anybody walks away a winner here.I just think we all walk away with another of life's learning experiences.
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The part you don't get, and will never see is, this fellow Dan(IIRC), took his problem with Eich to "that" forum, where Eich is an admin.

Of course, Eich and his buddies didn't like that, so to shut Dan up, they simply banned him, leaving him no alternative but to post his problem here.

Remember now, Eich is an admin on a forum that stresses integrity, honor, and honesty above all else, and they ban members for dishonorable conduct, as well as lesser things. But then, they usually weren't members of the inner circle.
Double standard??:confused:

I think the thread should definitely stay. Let's see if integrity, honor, and honesty win out.:rolleyes:;)
 
Hard to believe it's been 3 pages since I said it.

I hope this is worked out to both parties involved. :)

RDT, take my word for it, he's not a maker.
 
Tombstone, I do agree they are not an elite group.

And again I agree with Kit!!
 
i agree with what tombstone has been saying.

Have you guys noticed neithier eich or dr dan has posted for a while. I would think if dr dan was that worried about his supplies he would be posting in this thread more?
Just a thought
 
Mike Hull said:
The part you don't get, and will never see is, this fellow Dan(IIRC), took his problem with Eich to "that" forum, where Eich is an admin.

Of course, Eich and his buddies didn't like that, so to shut Dan up, they simply banned him, leaving him no alternative but to post his problem here.

Remember now, Eich is an admin on a forum that stresses integrity, honor, and honesty above all else, and they ban members for dishonorable conduct, as well as lesser things. But then, they usually weren't members of the inner circle.
Double standard??:confused:

I think the thread should definitely stay. Let's see if integrity, honor, and honesty win out.:rolleyes:;)
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Please don't suggest I don't "see" something.I'm very well read up in both forums on the subject.I can only assume why he was banned.I didn't have a problem with Dan bringing it here.He apparantly had a bad transcation with Eich.Eich apparantly had some problems with the way Dan went about conducting his transaction,and apparantly got pissed off.Now am I saying that it is right that Dan had some supplies that have not been returned?
No. Do we know where they are? No.Are they lost in shipping? This is a possibility.Anyone that wants to read the thread can decide if doing business with either party is a risk.
If Eich as a matter of business,ripped customers off,he would not be in business.I don't believe Eich is in need of these supplies,or money,or anything to do with Dan.I can only speculate what is going on,but what I get from these threads is he doesn't like Dan.Probably Sent the stuff back,and doesn't want anymore to do with the situation or communicating with Dan might be a possible scenerio that has taken place,I don't know for sure.Just guessing like everybody else.I'm not condoning Dan's or Kyle's actions.I'm just saying there is no point to make this a thread of 20,000 posts, and fuel problems between two sites when this is an Eich/Dan problem.This is not a USN and policy issue thread.If the USN irritates anybody then don't be a member.I don't alway's agree with every policy or decision at any forum.I don't make the decisions,I'm sure that human beings run forums and don't alway's make the right judgment.Somtimes people get rubbed the wrong way and they act harshly.In some cases people get away with too much.
Alot of these forums were started because people felt that they and others were treated unfairly by threads being deleted or members being banned by speaking an opinion.I was on the original forums to discuss knives that was owned by Josh,then we went to Knifeforums,then we have a Bladeforums.As other's have pointed out,if you don't like the forums,start your own if you think you can do better.There is nothing wrong with speaking your mind,but beating a deadhorse is no good either.The thread will alway's be here as a reference for information.Let's not fan flames between forums.
 
Please don't suggest I don't "see" something.I'm very well read up in both forums on the subject.I can only assume why he was banned
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What I meant was, you never saw the original thread. It was deleted or buried IIRC. That was all.
But suit yourself and assume I meant the worst.



Are they lost in shipping? This is a possibility.Anyone that wants to read the thread can decide if doing business with either party is a risk.
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All Eich had to do was post a tracking number, or anything. He refuses apparently, to do this.
What conclusion can anybody draw from that type of action?
Nothing good for sure.

I can only speculate what is going on,but what I get from these threads is he doesn't like Dan.Probably Sent the stuff back,and doesn't want anymore to do with the situation or communicating with Dan might be a possible scenerio that has taken place,I don't know for sure.Just guessing like everybody else...........
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Many are speculating, as Eich refuses to post the tracking number. I don't care how much he dislikes his customer, do the transaction properly.
If he sent the material back, you'd think that he couldn't wait to post the shipping info just to bring a close to this, but nothing.
Again, what conclusions are others supposed to draw.

There is nothing wrong with speaking your mind,but beating a deadhorse is no good either.The thread will alway's be here as a reference for information.....
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It will never be a dead horse to many people here until the right thing is done.
I don't care how bad Eich dislikes his customer, behaving in this manner is either childish if he's just holding on to the material,or refuses to give a tracking number, and it's lost in shipment, or something a bit more fraudulent if he never intends to ship it.

All he has to do is give a tracking number to Dan, proving the material was shipped. If it was lost in transit, then steps can be taken to find it, or file a claim.
Not giving any information doesn't allow either action to be taken, and comes back to this thread as the remedy.

It's Eich's choice, the way I see it. He could end this in minutes by doing the proper thing. He chooses not to.
 
Just for the heck of it I'm going to quote a post from 'way back on January 3rd:

Cougar Allen said:
As CODE3 stated earlier, we'll close the thread when the transaction is completed. This morning I was informed the knife arrived but there was nothing else in the package. He's still missing $200 worth of supplies.

I notice a number of people have expressed opinions about what Dan is like to deal with who don't seem to have done any deals with him. Knifemakers (other than Eichenseer) who have dealt with him are expressing different opinions to me....
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I'll add to that -- now I see people speculating maybe Eichenseer sent the $200 worth of supplies and they were lost in the mail. Why would you think that? He hasn't said he sent the stuff. Under the circumstances it's hard to believe if he had he wouldn't have said he had and posted the tracking number too, immediately. It's even harder to believe if he sent the stuff he would let three months go by without ever mentioning that he sent the stuff.

It certainly hasn't been received. Although he prefers not to have his name associated with this mess (and I don't blame him) Dr. Dan's American contact is a man we all know and his integrity is beyond question.
 
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