Update Re: Kyle Eichenseer

Status
Not open for further replies.
"What I meant was, you never saw the original thread. It was deleted or buried IIRC. That was all.
But suit yourself and assume I meant the worst."


I misunderstood what you meant,take a deep breath and relax you'll live longer.



"All Eich had to do was post a tracking number, or anything. He refuses apparently, to do this.
What conclusion can anybody draw from that type of action?
Nothing good for sure."

I understand,but he didn't post anything and don't think he will after all this time.


" Many are speculating, as Eich refuses to post the tracking number. I don't care how much he dislikes his customer, do the transaction properly.
If he sent the material back, you'd think that he couldn't wait to post the shipping info just to bring a close to this, but nothing.
Again, what conclusions are others supposed to draw."

I never said I condoned the way the transaction was handled from the information I have available to me.
Draw whatever conclusion you feel appropriate with the information you have.


"It will never be a dead horse to many people here until the right thing is done.
I don't care how bad Eich dislikes his customer, behaving in this manner is either childish if he's just holding on to the material,or refuses to give a tracking number, and it's lost in shipment, or something a bit more fraudulent if he never intends to ship it."

We all don't make the correct decisions all the time,we are human,which is not an excuse just a fact
.Perhap's the material is in customs or already in Dan's hands,how do you prove that? Again just specualting.

Is it sitting in Eich's shop,I don't know,just like you don't know.We are all speculating.It can be resolved very quickly,but it is obvious that he does not want to be involved with any further interaction in regards to this matter.Again,not condoning what or what not has been done here,just guessing based on what has happend in the thread and time elapsed.

"All he has to do is give a tracking number to Dan, proving the material was shipped. If it was lost in transit, then steps can be taken to find it, or file a claim.
Not giving any information doesn't allow either action to be taken, and comes back to this thread as the remedy.

It's Eich's choice, the way I see it. He could end this in minutes by doing the proper thing. He chooses not to."

Exactly.He chooses not to do so for a reason I or you don't know.Perhaps he is as stubborn as some people posting in this thread and at this point does not want to interact with people that are bashing or he just doesn't want to do anymore to help Dan.Again just speculating.
The bottom line is though is the forums and their members keep being slung into the ugly here and causing tension.Forum bashing does not lead to anything constructive.It is also obvious there are bad blood between some people which help fuel the thread and keep it fresh.I don't know what happend that caused a personal conflict,but it may not be helping in resolving the issue,just side tracks it really.
 
Cougar Allen said:
Just for the heck of it I'm going to quote a post from 'way back on January 3rd:



I'll add to that -- now I see people speculating maybe Eichenseer sent the $200 worth of supplies and they were lost in the mail. Why would you think that? He hasn't said he sent the stuff. Under the circumstances it's hard to believe if he had he wouldn't have said he had and posted the tracking number too, immediately. It's even harder to believe if he sent the stuff he would let three months go by without ever mentioning that he sent the stuff.

It certainly hasn't been received. Although he prefers not to have his name associated with this mess (and I don't blame him) Dr. Dan's American contact is a man we all know and his integrity is beyond question.
Click to expand...



I didn't assume anything has been sent, I'm just saying it could have been.Just like it may not have been sent to Dan's contact and just directly to Dan in Italy like the knife originally as a possible scenerio,again just speculating.
I don't know,just like we don't know it has not been sent.Like I said before,I don't see btt'ing the thread resolving it and belittleing the USN or it's members to help push a resolution. Dan with his knife back and no supplies may be the conclusion to this deal.As a result,you can decide not to do business with Eich if you choose,but leave the "other" forum out of the transaction.
 
I misunderstood what you meant,take a deep breath and relax you'll live longer.
Click to expand...
No need to relax. I was never upset.:)

Forum bashing does not lead to anything constructive.It is also obvious there are bad blood between some people which help fuel the thread and keep it fresh.I don't know what happend that caused a personal conflict,but it may not be helping in resolving the issue,just side tracks it really.
Click to expand...
No bashing from me. But, I understand what you mean.

Unfortunately the other place has banned many people, often for spurious reasons, so there's bound to be lots of bad blood, and they do claim to be all for integrity, honesty.................etc., ad nauseum, and it seems to many here that there are double standards being followed "over there".
I think that's the crux of the matter.

Eichs reasons don't mean anything to me, nor do I care what they are at this point.
He has effectively ruined his reputation, at least here, and that's a fact.

This whole matter is a lesson in what not to do in business.
 
Mike Hull said:
"No need to relax. I was never upset.:) "

Well thats good ;)

"No bashing from me. But, I understand what you mean. "

Maybe we see bashing in a different sense. :p

"Unfortunately the other place has banned many people, often for spurious reasons, so there's bound to be lots of bad blood, and they do claim to be all for integrity, honesty.................etc., ad nauseum, and it seems to many here that there are double standards being followed "over there".
I think that's the crux of the matter. "

How can Dan's bad business transaction with Eich be the fault of the "other" place.The crux of the matter was and alway's should be between Dan and Eich.Even with his banishment,he was able to get his complaint out in an open forum here.It is apparant,that nothing else is going to be done to resolve the situation to Dan's satisfaction.No one has to like or agree to with what transpired,but to keep throwing stones at the other forum and/or it's members is pointless and counterproductive.

" Eichs reasons don't mean anything to me, nor do I care what they are at this point.
He has effectively ruined his reputation, at least here, and that's a fact.

This whole matter is a lesson in what not to do in business."

If this is the case,what point is there to continue pounding on the thread?
This is Dan's thread.Responsibility rest with him to post to the thread with updates if he finds it useful to post anymore information. I don't think he has,because he must have decided to move on,just like we should.
Click to expand...
 
Tombstone,
I for one appreciate that you genuinely seem to be interested in curing this entire unfortunate incident. Really, I am not reading any innuendo or bad vibes into your posts. So much respect to you for that. However, I think the point is still not taken that Kyle must cough up the $$ and make Dan whole. The reasons why we are so aggressive about this particular incident are but a few and I will list the main two:
1. We know Kyle is out there as an Administrator of said site. So, we feel if the pressure keeps on it will deter anyone from doing business with him until he pays up. He's out there, we know it, you know it. People here have spoken with him; it's not a stretch to think he might even be viewing this via another new member ID or someone else’s.
2. Quite obviously, some of us have an axe to grind with said site as a whole as we have been victims of similar incidents. Completely shut down without the option to represent our case. That said, this incident is indicative of the type of things some of us have suffered. So if we keep seeing it happen and we know what it feels like then we feel empathy. Dan's case is but one of many. So consequently we occasionally bring up the other site. Mind you, none of us ever wanted that but were dealt that so we deal with it how we will. As I said earlier, they have sown the seeds of the "sour grapes" we eat. I don't want to destroy any site or anyone. I want Dan to have his money back and I would love to see people "elsewhere" treat each other better and that would effect this site also. But they don't, as much as anywhere else. So Kyle has set into motion a series of events that just won't go away because (as the many references to other incidents involving that site would indicate), too many similar incidents like Dan's have happened there and that negative energy was already in motion. It's not gotten so big that something has to be done bro. That's why I keep saying "handle your business" because your business (all people belonging to the other site) is to monitor even the administrators and keep the patrons happy and safe from predators like what Kyle now appears to be. We will not let neutral defenses and friends who sear by so and so bully us into shut downs anymore. This is where we have a voice and we are using it. Please understand we just want Dan to be whole, that will make all of us happy, as it is the one small win we would have after all the abuse Dan and many others have suffered for the lamest and most childish reasons. I know Brotherhood VERY WELL. However, mine has law where we claim it be "within our cable tow" to do certain things and not do certain thing should they offend our personal morals. That without reproaches from our Brothers and the hierarchy we chose that which we engage in. Don't you find what Kyle has done morally bankrupt at least just a little bit? Also that in his defense his "bro's" pile on top of Dan and ban him also very questionable morally? If so and you don't defend him then how about all the Admin's there and "inner circle" folk get together and get on his ass to fork over the cash. That would leave us to believe your place is genuinely interested in their patrons well being materially & mentally. That would be just and fair. How about it? He's a representative of you all as he's a honcho there. Is that what you all want the public and newer knife enthusiasts to see? The semi regular pile on of simple folk asking simple questions. The abuse of those who would use fact and evidence in their defense only to be shut out by being called names and then banned without finality? The demands you could all make on Kyle and the subsequent payment to Dan would then keep us shut about anyone or anything else Kyle is involved with. That would be good instant karma. The bad instant karma is already in motion. You all can cut it off at the pass if you take action and pressure Kyle to cough up the money. We are not asking to shut you all down and out. We are not bruning you all in effigy. We are not asking much, it's only $200 plus . Anything but payment is stubborn & arrogant.
 
RDT, Thanks for your post.I was pleased that you could see the true nature of my posts. I'm trying to request a peaceful end to something that may go on unresolved,and just learn from the experience.I think everyone knows what Dan is requesting.I don't know if he has gotten the items or will ever get the items.
If someone wants to check out references in the search function,they will be able to find this thread and make their own decision about doing business with Eich or anyone else.Eich I'm sure can post here if he wants to,and maybe he even monitors the thread for all we know,but he must have decided not to be involved with Dan anymore.I didn't say it was right,just might be what happend,just speculating again.

I can understand not liking a site you are banned from,especially if you feel you were treated unfairly,but generally we don't use forums to bash other forums.To insinuate the group as a whole including all the administrators are unethical maybe reaching a bit far, because you disagree to a adminstrative decision(someone being banned) The way things are handled in other forums maybe stricter or more heavy handed.
As I understood it, he was banned basically cause when Eich was sick Dan was being unreasonable,not listening,and was unrelenting at a bad time.This was after he was very agressive in recruiting Eich for the work,then pulled out.Eich asked for money for materials he paid for like the special damascus etc,and asked for an invoice basically of what was bought and how much.I guess that probably insulted Eich,and under the circumstances he must have thought that Dan should have just paid the bill instead of question his integrity.Again this is just from what I get reading all the threads,posts,and some speculation to try to put the story together to figure it out.That is how it started as far as I know,from the information available.I think both sides rubbed each other wrong and it snow balled from there into this mess.I think both participants can accept some blame for the situation,but it is not just one persons fault.I'm also not condoning what happend or didn't happen with Dan's supplies.We may disagree with a decision to ban.If the site is so bad,than you should be glad to be rid of it,and you no longer have to view it.I think we should just leave the forums and it's members out of the fight,and enough of our opinions are in this thread imho.Like I said before it really is Dan's thread,and he hardly posts in it,why keep the pressure up if Dan doesn't feel the need to? In any case you guy's can do what you want,you don't have to listen to me,but I think it is doing more harm than good.
Best Regards,Ralph
 
Hey Raplh,

Generally when someone wants a thread to die they stop posting!!

That was your fifth in 24 hours...........................:D
 
Tombstone, you make the best points of the lot of you. Again thanks to you and speculation is reasonable as far as what has happened to the goods. Yet, it's the public admissions by Kyle in the thread started there and now brought here without Kyle's own inclusion that leads us to believe Dan has been decieved. As for Dan not posting much, he's posted enough and contacted many of us privately searching for answers that someone in his shoes needs. This just won't end so easily. Harm is done because of Kyle, Good is what we are trying to get out of it.
 
As well, it's a matter of public record now that Kyle willfully and intentionally acted to keep Dan's goods from him. He stated quite clearly that he would mark the knife as such and hoped the Italian customs would confiscate it. I have read all of what Dan has posted and all of what Kyle had back at the USN. If he'd go that far to keep customers goods from him it's not a stretch to think he'd never sent them at all. Especially since it took so long for him to get around to responding to Dan in the first place. Of course then the feeding frenzy ensues and the taste of blood is in everyone’s mouth and they chew Dan a new as*hole. For what? For being as polite as humanly possibly in such a case and requesting info and his goods back? There is absolutely no excuse at all. The only reason for treating people that way is arrogance. I know Kyle's MO a bit myself and I will tell you. He's all talk because face to face he would have handed Dan his goods back and I bet shook his hand. When he turned his back he would chatter among the old ladies about what a prick Dan is for being persistent after over a year. Sheesh. I experienced the same from him. I specifically went to Blade two years ago to confront any and all who would oppose me from there. Especially Kyle and when I wasn't around I got wind he wanted to "kick my ass" but when sitting right next to me he was as quiet as a church mouse. And so were the rest of his buddies. In fact I shook hands with many of them and had pleasant banter about knives and even a little admiration of my own. I will say some of them were quite nice face to face and there were others who wouldn't even look me in the eye once I caught them looking at me. I felt no need to talk it out after that. It was kinda pitiful actually. So I most certainly hold a grudge bro. I will hand it to you again. You are a credit to that site. As you have been as diplomatic and civilized as possible. You seem not as reactionary as others there do. So I beg you to stick it out there and do what's right by your Patrons to keep it strong and alive and healthy. It seems pretty unhealthy at the moment. There are defectors and banning more and more. That will continue as long as that arrogance still exists among some of your members. They need to be taken down a few pegs. Back to earth with the rest of us. So much arrogance that people will defend a place where their Administrator/tech support can openly abuse people and apparently thieve from lesser members and he will be safe housed for it. The fact remains the reason why we get pissed at more than Kyle is that the site is now harboring a criminal and that makes the site and accessory to a crime. Willful and blatant. That the arrogance I speak of is being programmed into the lesser members I think without them even knowing it. They feel a sort of power finding a group of supposed "take no bull crap" people with common interests and being afraid of losing that at all make them deny the possibility that as a whole they have harbored someone who is now a criminal in many eyes. It's a sub cultural, microcosmic societal programming going on. Or simply and gang mentality. Any defense is unacceptable. The place has to "Handle its business" and the business at hand is getting Kyle to make Dan whole. Any knife maker who says he marks a box headed for another country as a weapon or knife is probably full of beans! I never have and never will. In the strictest language it is a "tool" and we mark it as such so that the person who has been so kind to give us business can get what he or she has paid for and will be happy with it. That is what we want is it not? Our customers to be happy. That doesn't mean giving them a "happy ending" of course but it means that in the end we aim to please as that is what keeps us in business, PERIOD! He hasn't done that. Sure neither has Reif or Corkum but you can bet those guys careers are over in the field. We will see to that. Thank you.
 
RDT said:
......... There is absolutely no excuse at all. The only reason for treating people that way is arrogance. I know Kyle's MO a bit myself and I will tell you. He's all talk because face to face he would have handed Dan his goods back and I bet shook his hand. When he turned his back he would chatter among the old ladies about what a prick Dan is for being persistent after over a year. ...............
Click to expand...

Sheer arrogance! That's the whole thing in a nutshell. So arrogant that that he feels he can keep other peoples property without fear of retribution, or being held accountable by his "friends" .:barf::rolleyes:
 
Must be annoying to people he's ripped off when they read articles about him in Blade and he talks about the 700-800 knives he's "pimped" in the last two years. Also, FWIW, Kyle is listed as a knifemaker on several websites. What exactly does he do, out of curiosity?
 
Chiro,
He does/did modifications to existing knives. Haven't seen him do that in a long time, but I haven't really looked. I understand that he has no desire to be a knifemaker.
I would imagine that there are lots of people that call themselves knifemakers on forums and web sites, but that doesn't make them a knifemaker.

What led you to believe he's ripped off other people, as you post implies?
 
What led you to believe he's ripped off other people, as you post implies?
Click to expand...
I thought there were multiple people having problems with him. Looking back over at least the first few and last few pages of this thread it looks like I may've been wrong. Sorry!
 
Chiro75 said:
Must be annoying to people he's ripped off when they read articles about him in Blade and he talks about the 700-800 knives he's "pimped" in the last two years. Also, FWIW, Kyle is listed as a knifemaker on several websites. What exactly does he do, out of curiosity?
Click to expand...

700-800 in 2 years and this deal with Dan is all you focus on :rolleyes:

think about that 700-800 in 2 years , that's called being busy , much more so than say oh I dunno , a couple knives in 5 years ?

Please provide links if you will to sites listing him as a knifemaker.

As Kit stated , there are plenty of people who have a title of " Knifemaker " , hell you can buy one here with a $40 membership. Other places you have to have a few ESTABLISHED knifemakers vouch for YOU and YOUR WORK.

I have been making knives in the past few months , yet I don't call myself a knifemaker. I just make knives.

Any what he does for a living is for him to say. Him being a member of USN ( and also an admin ) has ZERO to do with this whole thing. Dan contacted him from BladeForums , from work he saw here that others posted.

As to the BS about the "elite" group.... :rolleyes: :confused:
This doesnt need to be a USN vs BF , so lets please not spin it that way.
 
the45guy said:
700-800 in 2 years and this deal with Dan is all you focus on
Click to expand...

That's the thing with criminals and their crimes - when they commit one (say murder somebody) the focus is not on 6 billion people they didn't murder because that's the expected norm; the focus is on their crime instead. Kyle stole $200+ from another person and that's the whole issue here.

If you think stealing from one person is right just because you haven't stolen from other 800 (or 6 billion) you're just as big of a scumbag as Kyle.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top