Ups and Downs of PP Friends and Family

PP charges for a service. If you want to use that service you should pay them their fee. If you don't want to use that service, fine. Send a check or money order, but don't use F&F for goods and services purchases. PP puts this pretty much on the honor system, and some are failing. It isn't a major crime if you use F&F, but it shows the person to not be totally honest, and you may find that this isn't the only area they aren't honest in(or maybe it will be).
Just like so many other things those that abuse will ruin free F&F for those using it properly. I believe that the only reason PP hasn't adjusted F&F already is that our form of person to person transaction is such a small portion of their business, that they haven't seen the need to bother.
 
Without actually getting into a conversation with a PP rep. I think the average answer is to use the money spent on GS as their part in both buyer and seller protections. Not probable is being told it is a form of fraud. There will never be enough call for FF on purchases to cause something like jeopardy
On free FF for friends and family.
I doubt that in the terms and agreement a point is made calling out FF users on missuse and being fraulant. (I could be wrong, but there isn't any recourse which would cause PP to lose money).
Which brings it back again to Balls GBU. My contention is PP only went the extra step after the banks did what they did. Ie. PP allowed no argument like stay out of this the transactions fit and define our level of responsibility here. PP did not defend it'self and set a precident with the banks. Leading to the PP users (like us) to be gun shy. Benefiting PP -"accross the board".

I think I can control my own level of comfort zone to include who I feel I can trust. I think being involved in knife forum communities offers benefits, like being vetted as well as being accountable. Perhaps saying Trust exists is just because...... we do earn each other's?

I heard on USN any returns are accepted if a buyer isn't satisfied. That there is a stupid policy asking for trouble. Is that supposed to make sure a forum gains members (buyers) who make sellers honest or nervous or both?
 
Danke42 said:
They probably dump that data and measure how much it's happening. Because of course they know it's happening. Maybe at some point when the cost to them reaches X dollars they pull the pin. The could also use it in the event of problematic buyers/sellers/transactions.
Click to expand...

I recently heard of them sending a 1099 to someone who accepted a lot of F&F payments. :)
 
Doesn't matter if I trust or not. G&S protects both buyer and seller. If I ship a knife, it's stolen en route, but I can provide proof I sent it then likely neither of us will be out money. With F&F someone is gonna take a hit.
 
jftman said:
Simple. As the mod said. Inside a trader/collector community scammers become sharkbait. I for one decide if I need 'insurance', signatures, GS protection, and everyone who themselves use understandings about transacting business using PayPal lend to the ways and means being a buyer or seller comes to that end.
FF or GS for a forum purchase is only going to help decide one side of the coin from coming up or some neg outcomes being warded away. So, PP gets filthy rich across the board. I'd like to think using BF and being 'a kind' of people we might reach a level of trust for it and at some point.

I can imagine the Balls incident as a 'false flag' or being turned into something to reinforce how much we need protection from fraud and scammers. Do we? And if we didn't Watch, PP, the Banks and even BF will agree, PP GS ........ONLY.

CALL ME suspiciously up to no good, ignore as well. If I use FF to say I trust a seller. If I use FF to put extra $ in someone's pocket? I like it.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but I don't follow you. I get the PP FF and GS thing, but I just don't get what you are trying to convey. Is English your second language? If so, you get a pass, and I apologize for being harsh.
 
jftman said:
I heard on USN any returns are accepted if a buyer isn't satisfied. That there is a stupid policy asking for trouble. Is that supposed to make sure a forum gains members (buyers) who make sellers honest or nervous or both?
Click to expand...

It's actually the deal isn't complete until both parties are satisfied, and written or un-written it is the same policy here. It allows for the buyer to inspect the knife for undisclosed problems and return it in the same condition in a timely manner if they aren't satisfied with the condition. PP allows for the same, though they are too lenient on their terms and open to abuse by those who do such things.
 
timw1 said:
I'm sorry, but I don't follow you. I get the PP FF and GS thing, but I just don't get what you are trying to convey. Is English your second language? If so, you get a pass, and I apologize for being harsh.
Click to expand...
I wasnt sure, whether or not I was the only one, who didnt understand hence asked the forum member to pls elaborate.

It seems convoluted and I cant understand either.
 
jftman said:
Yep and I believe that two guys here well known and doing business forego extra money in asking price or what is netted for PP's sake. And I believe no regular guy with good feedback wants that extra that payPal TAKES. Ooops coerces.
Click to expand...

You don't seem to be getting the concept here. PayPal is offering a service by which people can pay for things easily and conveniently. They charge a fee for that service. They also provide a mechanism by which people can transfer funds to "friends and family" where there is no purchase of goods or services. They do not charge a fee for that service. When you, or anyone else, uses the "friends and family" service to pay for goods or accept it in payment for goods, you are violating the terms of service to which you agreed and you are stealing a service. Those are two unambiguous indicia of dishonesty. Own it, don't rationalize it.
 
If a seller doesn't mention adding 3% for G&S, I would just pay them what they asked for (using G&S), and assume they are covering the fee. On the flip side, I am also happy to pay the 3% if that's what the deal is. I've used F&F for two private party internet purchases, and both times I ended up feeling completely unprotected and a bit stressed that I could be getting ripped off! Especially since both sellers insisted. I should have just backed out of the sale. I won't get into the particulars, but the situation ended up not being great. By the way, PP called and asked me what the nature of the transaction was, and I had to make something up. Not good, and it all felt dishonest. They provide a service that's meant to protect both parties, and they should get paid for it. If ya don't like it... use Venmo, which feels even sketchier to me.
 
timw1 said:
I'm sorry, but I don't follow you. I get the PP FF and GS thing, but I just don't get what you are trying to convey. Is English your second language? If so, you get a pass, and I apologize for being harsh.
Click to expand...
When I buy off the forum and the seller states he pays the fees, I have let him know that I am willing to do FF in exchange for a pic of the tracking receipt and pic of the addressed package. By doing so I assume I will be sent the item and even if lost I assume the risk. Because I realize packages don't disappear, and I believe some people can be trusted. If the seller suggests I not make the offer, and says 'Thanks but no thanks'. That is Ok.
 
"When you, or anyone else, uses the "friends and family" service to pay for goods or accept it in payment for goods, you are violating the terms of service to which you agreed and you are stealing a service. Those are two unambiguous indicia of dishonesty. Own it, don't rationalize it."

I guess I should make sure that these "terms and conditions" are real. Or rationalizing it is Ok.
 
^^^ from the user agreement
"You can also use the send money feature in your PayPal account to pay for good or services. You will not be charged for sending money to purchase goods or services as long as you choose the “send money to pay for goods and services” feature in your PayPal account. In that case, the seller selling the goods or services pays the fees. You may not use the “send money to a friend or family member” feature in your PayPal account when you are paying for goods and services."
 
jftman said:
When I buy off the forum and the seller states he pays the fees, I have let him know that I am willing to do FF in exchange for a pic of the tracking receipt and pic of the addressed package. By doing so I assume I will be sent the item and even if lost I assume the risk. Because I realize packages don't disappear, and I believe some people can be trusted. If the seller suggests I not make the offer, and says 'Thanks but no thanks'. That is Ok.
Click to expand...
You either can't understand, or won't acknowledge what you are being told. It's not a question of trust, it's about paying for a service that you are using.
The last time I bought something off the forum, it was from a member I consider a good friend. I had absolutely no doubts about his honesty and integrity. I used "goods and services" to pay. It's not an insult, it's the proper use of the payment service. He didn't ask me to, but I added 3% to the amount so he wouldn't be out the fees. If you want to send the seller a tip to cover his fees, why should you cheat PayPal for it?
 
jftman said:
Yep and I believe that two guys here well known and doing business forego extra money in asking price or what is netted for PP's sake. And I believe no regular guy with good feedback wants that extra that payPal TAKES. Ooops coerces.
Click to expand...

Paypal provides a service, and they charge for that service. USPS provides a service also when they deliver the package. Should they do that for free, too?
 
Given that the OP is advocating theft of services as something that is somehow virtuous and his refusal or inability to understand common concepts like honesty and ethical behaviour, could someone please shut this thread down?

Thanks.
 
The OP does show confusion of the fact that it's theft and his not suffering any consequences YET justifies it.
 
I have family I wouldn’t send money to using friends and family...come to think of it, I wouldn’t send them money period.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top