Ups and Downs of PP Friends and Family

jftman said:
When I buy off the forum and the seller states he pays the fees, I have let him know that I am willing to do FF in exchange for a pic of the tracking receipt and pic of the addressed package. By doing so I assume I will be sent the item and even if lost I assume the risk. Because I realize packages don't disappear, and I believe some people can be trusted. If the seller suggests I not make the offer, and says 'Thanks but no thanks'. That is Ok.
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You still don't get it. It's not about trust, it's about honesty. Ignore button pushed.....
 
I don’t know... I buy something using PayPal Goods&Services, the seller pulls any kind of shenanigans, I get my money back. It seems like an easy to understand concept. As a seller, it does force me to be more selective and to carefully practice due diligence. In the majority of the Bad Outcomes to the Seller here in the GBU, it does not seem that due dillegence was employed.

In an honest, non-cheating PayPal transaction, the Friends&Family option should be strictly interpreted as such. Let’s put it this way...I immediately don’t trust you-in any sense-if you try to scam PayPal. You don’t like their system, don’t use PayPal. That too, seems like an easy to understand concept.
 
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I checked payPal's user agreement. I found where they say FF is used improperly for purchases
At the end of the section
Fees for Sending Money to Friends and Family
 
I always ask for goods and services, one because it is what I agreed to and the right thing to do when, well, selling goods and services. And two, because it makes shipping so easy, just click "print shipping label" right under your Paypal goods and services transaction. Easy print label, no chance of typos on the address label, simple tracking emailed to buyer by Paypal and protection both ways. Win, win I think.
 
brancron said:
It's fairly straightforward for me: I only accept payment through PayPal G&S, and I only buy from people who ask for G&S (except for Gary Graley, who is an old-fashioned check kind of guy!). If I see a person asking for F&F (or G&S plus an extra fee, almost invariably higher than what PayPal actual charges), I usually put them on ignore so I won't have to run into them ever again. The ignore list is a beautiful thing.
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OP is either a troll or is extremely obtuse in his way of thinking. If he brings up the benefits of clones next my ears will start smoking.
Ignored.
 
jftman said:
I checked payPal's user agreement. I found where they say FF is used improperly for purchases
At the end of the section
Fees for Sending Money to Friends and Family
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I'm surprised that you didn't know this thread would go poorly, considering how long you've been here. A word of advice, you won't change minds in this situation. Better to acknowledge the problems with FF and close the thread #move on.
 
shinyedges said:
I'm surprised that you didn't know this thread would go poorly, considering how long you've been here. A word of advice, you won't change minds in this situation. Better to acknowledge the problems with FF and close the thread #move on.
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I agree, the entire thread as I read it was predicated on the fact of "to thieve or not to thieve"
And that is the only question
 
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
The thing I always ask myself, is a few dollars worth the potential headache that may happen. Everyone knows what the outcome of using FF will be if a deal goes south. End of story.
I've yet to buy from a retailer that accepts PayPal that has additional cost that are stipulated before buying a product. Show me one retailer that lists "net to me or add 3% PP fees" in their sales ad.
Trying to skirt around a fee that's there for a reason will sooner or later come to bite you in the butt and the fees you thought you saved will wind up costing you more.
There's no doubt in my mind that PayPal tracks and has records of each transaction that's made through them. They know who the abusers are, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if one day the throw the hammer down and ban the abusers. Then PayPal won't be your friend.
It's like speeding, oh, you can get away with it for a long time, but you'll eventually get a speeding ticket.
 
Ajack60 said:
There's no doubt in my mind that PayPal tracks and has records of each transaction that's made through them. They know who the abusers are, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if one day the throw the hammer down and ban the abusers. Then PayPal won't be your friend.
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I don't know of anyone that has been banned, but I do know people that have had their accounts restricted to G&S only due to abuse.
 
Paypal not cover seller at all. As I wrote here, sold a knife to ebay buyer, shipped insured to him in safe plastic envelope which is not possible to open without damage. Buyer claimed he received 2c shit not a knife. Paypal frozen my money - I've made a investigation with my and also France post office (buyer was in France) both confirmed envelope was delivered without damage.
Buyers sent 2c shit back to me, provided tracking number to Paypal and they take my money and sent to him.
Paypal was not inteersted that post offices confirmed not damaged package, not even about weights of my and him packages differs!
Post office did not filled insurance because package was not damaged.
For a money paypal earn every day on horrible fees and currency conversions they should be more detailed in their investigations. Every call I've made in those days was with different employee and I had to describe it from start all which was quite lot of money for a phone calls ;)
 
Lone_Wolfe said:
Recon1 does the F&F or pay the fees, but it's not shown until you go to pay.
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To my understanding that is against PP rules and IMO is exactly why they wrote the rule-to avoid surprises at checkout or not even seeing extra charges when you check out.
I personally never minded the exchange ads with G&S +fees(or whatever you want to call it) as long as they got the fee price right. It is right up front not hidden. Technically it may not be right, but I know what I am going to have to pay and PP get all they are due. PP on the other hand probably doesn't like anyone offering alternatives to their product that would be cheaper for the buyer and cut them out of their fees, such as money orders or checks. There is no advantage to the ad G&S +fees unless you are offering a legit non-fee offering(F&F not being one), such as checks, money order, bitcoins and so on. Very few are interested in such offerings, so you might as well keep it simple with an all inclusive price and keep members(some of whom detest net +fees for G&S) and PP happy at the same time. When selling something it works better if you don't piss off the customer.
or a long way of saying-all things considered all inclusive prices work best
 
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laurin said:
Paypal not cover seller at all. As I wrote here, sold a knife to ebay buyer, shipped insured to him in safe plastic envelope which is not possible to open without damage. Buyer claimed he received 2c shit not a knife. Paypal frozen my money - I've made a investigation with my and also France post office (buyer was in France) both confirmed envelope was delivered without damage.
Buyers sent 2c shit back to me, provided tracking number to Paypal and they take my money and sent to him.
Paypal was not inteersted that post offices confirmed not damaged package, not even about weights of my and him packages differs!
Post office did not filled insurance because package was not damaged.
For a money paypal earn every day on horrible fees and currency conversions they should be more detailed in their investigations. Every call I've made in those days was with different employee and I had to describe it from start all which was quite lot of money for a phone calls ;)
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That certainly sucks, and I am afraid it isn't the 1st time I have heard such. PP can be very inconsistent on claims and very poor to explain putting holds on sellers money-maybe something better will come along, but for now it seems to be what people want to use.
 
GermanyChris said:
The places some of you look to save money is mind boggling, PayPal fees are $3 a hundred. If you're buying something so expensive that the fees to transfer the money are an issue you probably ought to reconsider buying the item.
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It isn't about the dollar amount, it's a matter of principle.
 
GermanyChris said:
The places some of you look to save money is mind boggling, PayPal fees are $3 a hundred. If you're buying something so expensive that the fees to transfer the money are an issue you probably ought to reconsider buying the item.
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Lol, makes you wonder what kind of tip they leave a waitress.:rolleyes:
 
I've always paid with G&S, I paid fees if asked. Recently. on another forum, I bought a couple of knives from a well respected member and was OK with F&F, this one time! Well, the seller gave me an incorrect PP address and the fellow that received the money refused to return it. The seller stepped up and I got the knives, hoping he learned a lesson. I'm back to never paying with F&F!
 
GermanyChris said:
The places some of you look to save money is mind boggling, PayPal fees are $3 a hundred. If you're buying something so expensive that the fees to transfer the money are an issue you probably ought to reconsider buying the item.
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It's not about "saving money" it's about dealing with people who are nothing more than thieves violating the terms of service they voluntarily agreed to abide by.

I can afford to buy just about anything I want to but I won't have my money knowingly and willfully stolen from me if I can help it. Has nothing whatsoever to do with what I can or can't afford, I can afford things because I don't send my money to thieves.
 
Fun fact I recently discovered: as a Vermont resident, I owe 8.5% of my PayPal-processed "income" in state taxes. So, it looks like my knife habit will be dialed back.
 
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