WARNING: Issues with cvuicich, ja2072, was: What does LNIB mean?

I don't understand why it matters what the buyer does with the knife, including "giving" it to a third-party. The buyer is the one on the hook in the transaction, including for his reputation. Unless I missed something, the description of the knife as "like new in box" was not accurate by any reasonable definition of the term. The buyer probably acted too quickly in opening a PP dispute, but I don't see much else wrong in his conduct.
 
I never meant to expose anyone. I was pretty much done at post 24. The whole thing just seemed to explode. :dread:

6850 said:
...................The good thing about your initial question, is that it exposed the two unscrupulous buyers.............
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HappyDaddy said:
I don't understand why it matters what the buyer does with the knife, including "giving" it to a third-party. The buyer is the one on the hook in the transaction, including for his reputation. Unless I missed something, the description of the knife as "like new in box" was not accurate by any reasonable definition of the term. The buyer probably acted too quickly in opening a PP dispute, but I don't see much else wrong in his conduct.
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So are you saying you would do business with ja2072?

The whole thing boils down to this. The first buyer wanted the knife, but wanted a discount of $100 dollars. Brandoak refused to sell to him because the guy was pushy and didn't want to do the deal through BF. Buyer 1 contacts his friend ja2072 and ask him to buy the knife for him. ja2072 buys the knife from the pictures posted and What do you know, he finds the condition not to be to his satisfaction. Does he say, "I'll send you the knife back and you refund my money back please." No, he hides behind PayPal and demanded close to $200, I believe the actual amount was $178.00. Keep in mind that this Mariafone was already deeply discounted and I dare you to find one for what this knife ended up selling for after the rebate. So bandoak, thinking he is somehow in the wrong for his discription agrees to settle for $100.00. What do know the buyer ends up settling for the exact amount that his buddy was trying to buy the knife for in the first place, but brandoak refused to sell it to him, because of too many red flags.
Wow, what are the odds that things would work out that way?
Why have ja2072 and his buddy, not come on the thread to defend their actions, especially if everything was on the up and up?
If someone wrongly accused you of dishonesty, would you just let it be, or would you vigorously defend your reputation and character on BF?
Why do you think other respected members are calling for banning?
Why do you think a MOD has stepped in asking for more questions about what transpired behind the scenes?
If this was a cut and dry misunderstanding, why is it 7 pages long?
This thing was a scam/hustle/con or whatever shady dealing you want to call it from the get go.
The guys in question got caught and are doing nothing to present their side.
They have been made aware of this thread.
Why haven't they said more?

I think when you sort through the FACTS the answer is obvious.

One thing is for sure, I would never do business with ja2082 or his buddy.
I think most of the people who have read this thread feel the same way.
Not to many people chiming in in their defense.
 
What really gives this away as something that doesn't line up is that there was a "plan" to get a $100 discount on the MT...

It started with that and strangely, when the knife was "not as described" it ended with the original pushy request for the same $100 discount.

That's the part I don't like.

Why not send it back?

So, to simplify:

Buyer A wanted the knife but at $100 discount.

OP was not interested in giving that discount or dealing with buyer A.

Buyer A then gets his "buddy" to buy the knife for him, and then file a PP claim stating the knife was "not as described" and wants to settle for a partial refund of $100.

Someone tell me this wasn't the plan all along, and it all just worked out like this out of coincidence??!
 
brandoak said:
I never meant to expose anyone. I was pretty much done at post 24. The whole thing just seemed to explode. :dread:
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I know you initially wanted a consensus re: the LNIB.
We all have an idea what that meant, lots of differing opinions.

But when dishonesty and treachery is used to take advantage of a
regular guy selling to who he chooses, it affects all of us.
It took off because it is just the kind of thing that leads us to never trust anyone.
Among a group of people with a common interest.

Don't feel like you've caused any trouble Brandoak...
You have probably saved some of us from the same trouble.
The thing that bothers me a lot,M&S the difference between your pictures and his (whichever has the knife).
I am convinced he marred the knife to get it for less, & to get back at you for not selling to the first guy.
Who in the second guys description, "is a great guy, you should deal with in the future" reading between the lines says,
"here is what you get for not bowing to my demands"

Just cause some guy didn't follow the ordeal from the start is no reason to feel bad.
There are a lot of Upstanding members on here as outraged as well should all be.
Who knows, maybe he's got someone to try make him look better on BFs.
We will never know because he (they) have damaged their credibility forever.

Thank you STR & JR88 for the great posts...
 
Like new in box means exactly what it says. It is just like new in box --- not scratched, chipped, reprofiled, sharpened, etc. It may not be new in box, but it's like new in box.
 
The smell of dead horses being beaten is strong. The OP and most of us understand, or now understand, the need to exercise caution when employing terms like NIB, LNIB, etc. If the assertion that the buyer colluded with the rejected buyer is true, and their refusal to respond persists, then in my mind, the assertion is most likely correct. I trust the wisdom of GBU and its' Moderators to let this continue until its' proper time.
 
cigarrodog said:
The smell of dead horses being beaten is strong. The OP and most of us understand, or now understand, the need to exercise caution when employing terms like NIB, LNIB, etc. If the assertion that the buyer colluded with the rejected buyer is true, and their refusal to respond persists, then in my mind, the assertion is most likely correct. I trust the wisdom of GBU and its' Moderators to let this continue until its' proper time.
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Well said
 
And why make a PP claim when it involves an auto unless you are down right being ripped off? Very stupid could freeze accounts bad.
 
Sosa said:
And why make a PP claim when it involves an auto unless you are down right being ripped off? Very stupid could freeze accounts bad.
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Even more surprising, folks buying and selling autos and utilizing the USPS to ship......
 
Buyers want a good deal. They want a NIB/LNIB at a low price. I have never made money or broke even on a knife sale. The knife may look LNIB to you but the buyer wants NIB. I always disclose if the knife has been carried, used or sharpened.

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LNIB to me means, it may have been carried but never used. The blade is mint but being carried, the clip may have scratches, especially if it has black paint finish. LNIB again means the blade has NOT been used. I have sold many LNIB knives and always state that they have been carried, but never used.
Pat

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I am flabbergasted that anyone can think that a knife (or any other item) can accurately be described as "like new" if it has any signs of wear at all. The only rationale for accepting that would be that one would accept a new knife from a dealer that had signs of wear. If that's the case, you're far more forgiving, in both cases, than I.
 
So I reached out to the buyer and asked what was going on and he replied with 2 messages. He has since turned off his visitor messages and private messaging which pretty much says "I don't want to discuss this any further, no matter what". How else can we interpret that action?
 
This doesn't pass the smell test.

This is why transactions should always be done on the forums. This is why you don't do Paypal gift. This is why you take photos. The seller shouldn't have given a refund, he should have requested the knife back. The buyer(s) were shady all the way around.

I'm tempted to ban both cvuivich and ja2072, but the problem is there's no proof that cvuivich was involved other than 2nd hand information. ja2072 has apparently disappeared now. I've changed the thread title, and would like to see more information.
 
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