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WARNING: Issues with cvuicich, ja2072, was: What does LNIB mean?
- Thread starter brandoak
- Start date
Peter Hartwig
Gold Member
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- Feb 29, 2008
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Thanks for the help palonej & S.T.R. I think I got it now.
I can add that I would gladly do business with the OP(Seller). He seems like a good seller, even if he was off on the LNIB description. By the way I think LNIB should be the start of a description not the whole-such as LNIB not a flaw on it or LNIB never carried , used or sharpened. Dealers tell me NIB is reserved to them and the manufacture and I have accepted this use of the term, though others will use it more freely.
Buyer is creating at least ?'s to his behavior. When in doubt I tend to avoid. I never would have started the discussion of a problem with a PP dispute and have yet to need their help in solving any problem between members. There is plenty of time to go that way if nothing can be resolved man to man. In this case it seemed to be used as a form of blackmail. If the buyer thinks he is being misjudged (by me and others) , I will be glad to listen, but BS isn't going to cut it.
I can add that I would gladly do business with the OP(Seller). He seems like a good seller, even if he was off on the LNIB description. By the way I think LNIB should be the start of a description not the whole-such as LNIB not a flaw on it or LNIB never carried , used or sharpened. Dealers tell me NIB is reserved to them and the manufacture and I have accepted this use of the term, though others will use it more freely.
Buyer is creating at least ?'s to his behavior. When in doubt I tend to avoid. I never would have started the discussion of a problem with a PP dispute and have yet to need their help in solving any problem between members. There is plenty of time to go that way if nothing can be resolved man to man. In this case it seemed to be used as a form of blackmail. If the buyer thinks he is being misjudged (by me and others) , I will be glad to listen, but BS isn't going to cut it.
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I'm surprised the people at Paypal still haven't figured out the issue with this item yet, being an automatic and all.
Has anyone asked the "buyers" to chime in yet? If something is running afoul, then we gots to take a swing at this if you know what I mean.
The fake buyer said this:
Made a which hunt accusation and provided no details to refute anything said here. He even wrapped himself in the paypal goods flag when it is well documented that he routinely sells using friends and family. I directly asked him if he bought the knife for another member. No answer. Maybe you would have better luck?
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- Jul 15, 2012
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- 1,884
That term includes the word "new" and it tells readers the knife is "in" a box. Sounds loaded to me. LNIB seems like an in-group colloquialism. You kind-of have to be in-the-know in order to understand its nuances. If people have to ask, that means it's not a universally understood and/or agreed upon term. Opinion here is divergent rather than convergent, thats says something.
I can tell you if a seller used LNIB on eBay as a descriptor and the buyer complained about the item not being accurately described, eBay would side with the buyer because terms arent specifics. Specifics are preferable.
Over reliance on terms rather than specific objective descriptions can and does lead to misinterpretation. I wouldnt rely upon LNIB as a descriptor, its too open for misinterpretation. I point out specifics and details.
I can tell you if a seller used LNIB on eBay as a descriptor and the buyer complained about the item not being accurately described, eBay would side with the buyer because terms arent specifics. Specifics are preferable.
Over reliance on terms rather than specific objective descriptions can and does lead to misinterpretation. I wouldnt rely upon LNIB as a descriptor, its too open for misinterpretation. I point out specifics and details.
This whole situation stinks. The OP seems to be the good guy here while the buyer or buyers are shady. I'm interested to see where this goes as far as the forum is concerned.
NIB is brand new never used carried sharpened and only out of the box for pics
LNIB could indicate the knife was carried and lightly used but will show no signs of either
everything after these two is a USER and should be priced accordingly.
it seems the OP already had the knife priced appropriately. I know when I buy something LNIB/NIB and its not then I send it back on principle alone..... I wont seek a partial refund because to me that is just shady. OP, I think you were totally in the right by doing everything you can to please the buyer....... BUT if the knife did in fact have the scratches/chips I would be a bit more careful what knives you label as LNIB in the future. Unfortunately it seems like you were taken here.... proof being that the "buyer" attempted a smear campaign and all you did was copy paste messages to prove what was going on.
NIB is brand new never used carried sharpened and only out of the box for pics
LNIB could indicate the knife was carried and lightly used but will show no signs of either
everything after these two is a USER and should be priced accordingly.
it seems the OP already had the knife priced appropriately. I know when I buy something LNIB/NIB and its not then I send it back on principle alone..... I wont seek a partial refund because to me that is just shady. OP, I think you were totally in the right by doing everything you can to please the buyer....... BUT if the knife did in fact have the scratches/chips I would be a bit more careful what knives you label as LNIB in the future. Unfortunately it seems like you were taken here.... proof being that the "buyer" attempted a smear campaign and all you did was copy paste messages to prove what was going on.
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- Joined
- Sep 17, 2012
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- 13,336
Thanks S.T.R., I overlooked that post. Oops.:foot:
I'd personally prefer a screen shot or at least the entirety of the quote, just so things will be shown in the proper context. With what is posted, "I bought it for him" could be the other user, the actual buyer's brother, father, uncle etc... Details matter.
I agree with your second point.
^I wouldn't quite go that far.
Regardless, I can fully appreciate you wanting to see evidence of this. FWIW: the late evening that the OP & I shared quite a bit of communication over what transpired, he shared a screenshot, that pretty much verified that ja2072 admitted buying this MT Custom for the other person (his friend he claimed) who'd already made several attempt to buy his custom, basically resorting to Plan D (ja2072), to finally procure his grail.
^ +1 It's pretty crystal clear to me, STR! What type of person wouldn't be here, answering "ALL" questions, & defending himself?
^ I'm not sure exactly in what context, you meant this.
I always use PayPal Goods (as both a buyer & seller), for protection. FWIW: I've completed several hundred transactions, here, on eBay, & a few other knife & gun forums, using PayPal's services. What I haven't ever done before, is file a PayPal dispute...ever! Have there been times, where I could've jumped the gun & escalated things quickly? Yes. Did I? No! I personally prefer going the resolution/communication route with the other party, & give the other party the chance to rectify a situation, prior to doing something as drastic as damaging their reputation (as ja0=2072 did here to the OP). Do you realize, what this get a $100 off tactic/extortion, has done to the OP's reputation with PayPal? It sure didn't help him, seizing his money.
Had this been me, & somebody pulled this crap; I would have told these 2 scammers: "F- You," given them a refund, & then waited to receive my modified MT custom back.
^ It does stink, Pop!
If all the fact with laid out in an organized manner, it would be much easier to put 2 & 2 together. This thread has gotten so convoluted, & the important posts are scattered all over the place. Look at the post prior to yours^. Some people are oblivious to what's even going on here, & still commenting on the OP (NIB/LNIB).
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Do you mean go that far and call it a conspiracy?
Conspiracy, conspirators, co-conspirators, fraud, scam, scammers, and multiple calls to ban were all posted before post #67 and my posts in this thread.
You're right on both accounts.
Although if he chooses not to share, should we really cry foul and ban for nothing proven?
Yes, omissions are telling.
This was a sticky situation from the start, that much is clear.
The 3 "THREE" parties involved in this mess (unbeknownst to the seller when he initially sold his knife):
The seller (the OP here):
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/member.php/428395-brandoak
Member: cvuicich He is the 1st attempted buyer (who was refused by the seller after several attempts deceitful attemps)
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/member.php/234592-cvuicich
Member: ja2072 ^He is the member, who is alleged by the seller, to have purchased this Marfioni Custom MT Scarab, for his friend, cvuicich.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/member.php/234592-cvuicich
The sales thread, where all 3 parties involved in this GBU thread, posted:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-SOLD!-Priced-DROP!-Microtech-DOC-LUDT-Scarab
As for the communication: until there are screen shots, or evidence, this is pretty much a:" he said, he said," situation.
I think the OP, is planning on sending the screen shot (written by ja2071), to Rev Devil; where he basically admitted buying this Scarab for the first guy. The one who relentlessly tried to initially buy this...AT THE $100 DISCOUNT, WHICH HE FINALLY GOT!
The seller (the OP here):
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/member.php/428395-brandoak
Member: cvuicich He is the 1st attempted buyer (who was refused by the seller after several attempts deceitful attemps)
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/member.php/234592-cvuicich
Member: ja2072 ^He is the member, who is alleged by the seller, to have purchased this Marfioni Custom MT Scarab, for his friend, cvuicich.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/member.php/234592-cvuicich
The sales thread, where all 3 parties involved in this GBU thread, posted:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-SOLD!-Priced-DROP!-Microtech-DOC-LUDT-Scarab
As for the communication: until there are screen shots, or evidence, this is pretty much a:" he said, he said," situation.
I think the OP, is planning on sending the screen shot (written by ja2071), to Rev Devil; where he basically admitted buying this Scarab for the first guy. The one who relentlessly tried to initially buy this...AT THE $100 DISCOUNT, WHICH HE FINALLY GOT!
cvuicich contacted me outside of BF and ask that I sell the knife to him. I ask him to pm me on bladeforums and he said that it wouldn't let him pm me and ask to conduct business outside BF.
I said without a pm through BF I didn't know who he was, feedback scores ect...he then told me about his "slot" of feedback on USN and that he had people that could vouch for him.
He reluctantly revealed his profile name on BF (cvuicich) and said he would "take it" asking for pp info. via yahoo.
I told him "NO" again after reviewing his BF profile, and then sold the knife to ja2072 on the BF listing.
cvuicich emails me back and stated "Man guess you sold to someone else. Really wanted. And I am very honest and trustworthy. Have over 100 microtechs and someone has never told me I couldn't buy ! .........."
After pp funds were sent from ja2072 we exchanged a few pm's where he confessed to purchasing the knife for cvuicich. (I have screenshots of all conversations if the moderators need them)
I said without a pm through BF I didn't know who he was, feedback scores ect...he then told me about his "slot" of feedback on USN and that he had people that could vouch for him.
He reluctantly revealed his profile name on BF (cvuicich) and said he would "take it" asking for pp info. via yahoo.
I told him "NO" again after reviewing his BF profile, and then sold the knife to ja2072 on the BF listing.
cvuicich emails me back and stated "Man guess you sold to someone else. Really wanted. And I am very honest and trustworthy. Have over 100 microtechs and someone has never told me I couldn't buy ! .........."
After pp funds were sent from ja2072 we exchanged a few pm's where he confessed to purchasing the knife for cvuicich. (I have screenshots of all conversations if the moderators need them)
I have BF migraine...& I don't even get migraines...
I sent you a PM, Benchwarmer.
Hopefully, all of the fact will be presented, & everyone can make their own determinations...
In the meantime, I'm anxiously waiting/hoping, that this thread doesn't go all "Wolfnagel", on us...or should I say "me," again.
I really miss the old school way of doing business: meeting someone in person, looking in their eyes, a firm handshake...& my own intuition. I've never encountered any problems (businesswise), prior to the internet way of transacting...& I keep waiting for my turn to get bit.
I sent you a PM, Benchwarmer.
Hopefully, all of the fact will be presented, & everyone can make their own determinations...
In the meantime, I'm anxiously waiting/hoping, that this thread doesn't go all "Wolfnagel", on us...or should I say "me," again.
I really miss the old school way of doing business: meeting someone in person, looking in their eyes, a firm handshake...& my own intuition. I've never encountered any problems (businesswise), prior to the internet way of transacting...& I keep waiting for my turn to get bit.
I was not one to call for a ban because the information is not complete. That said, something should happen to the buyer. This is not his first issue in the GB&U. The others were mostly red flags. This is much more than that.
The reason he couldn't PM you is because he is a registered user (not a paid member) and thus does not have PM capabilities. Your assumptions are hasty.
You also failed to describe the entire quality of the knife properly, an error on your part.
The only issue I see is the actual buyer being deceptive and buying it for someone else.
I see no reason for a banning to take place, there was nothing worthy of banning that took place.
I really would like to entertain the idea that ja2072 honestly thought it was ok to buy for another member or friend who was turned down due to lack of feedback and activity on BF. Maybe the transaction would have been flawless if my LNIB description was more accurate?
I keep beating myself up over this ...
But I cant also help but look through skeptical eyes and weighing the evidence,...... it all seems deceitful from the get go.
I keep beating myself up over this ...
But I cant also help but look through skeptical eyes and weighing the evidence,...... it all seems deceitful from the get go.
I really would like to entertain the idea that ja2072 honestly thought it was ok to buy for another member or friend who was turned down due to lack of feedback and activity on BF. Maybe the transaction would have been flawless if my LNIB description was more accurate?
I keep beating myself up over this ...
But I cant also help but look through skeptical eyes and weighing the evidence,...... it all seems deceitful from the get go.
I think ja2072 was just protecting his ass in case the final owner found the same misdescribed issues that he found, if the knife was described correctly it probably would've been a peaceful transaction.
It feels shady but I'm sure it happens pretty often here on BF
You certainly didn't ruin his reputation. He did that on his own. Remember, several of us already had him on our "ignore, don't do business with list" for his other stuff he talked about here. Personally, I wouldn't have sold him a used toilet seat cover.
Let's talk a bit about buying for a third party. I get why there is a "no selling for a third party" rule. It is a way of circumventing the need to pay for a gold membership. The problem with buying for a third party is exactly what happened here, or so it seems. the seller didn't want to sell to a specific person which is his right. The original buyer asked another member to buy the item for him, thus eliminating the sellers right to sell to whoever he wants. Thoughts?