To the person who was upset by Mike Fuller not answering e-mails... He is NOT a computer person- he DISLIKES them and people who know them have stated it on these forums and others! I have talked to him on phone, which by the way still is an acceptable way of business for quite a bit of the populace, and in person. I have dealt with TOPS in the past and if they told me something was in hand and to be shipped it always was. I never had need for the warranty and if you are in business yes you do need to have legal counsel write some policies for you to protect from the unreasonable people in the world. I would trust TOPS and Livesays warranties personally at least as much as the no excuse ones I know of or maybe more. As an example when I had bought some of the knives with the best written warranties that state replacement there were NO clauses about them being replaced with something "similar" and not the same thing and that is what is being told now when asked now even though the in writing says something different or at least does not point that bit out. Now that may be a mute point for I know of none of the older handmade stuff needing replaced but when asked that has been the response. Now what is better, a "lesser" written warranty that is "upgraded" when called upon or a great warranty that says "don't worry be happy" and then sends a great knife to replace it but it may not be the same knife? A "downgraded" value to you maybe, maybe not...
-
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what about TOPS?
- Thread starter elkhoundss
- Start date
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Brian Jones
Moderator
- Joined
- Jan 17, 1999
- Messages
- 7,560
Jerry, I seriously hope you not implying that any of the companies mentioned here are misleading anyone.
Now, "published test data" is nice, but dosn't really take into account the randomness of real world operations. I want to know if the knives have performed reliably and consistently on a regualr basis in real world ops or expeditions.
If I ever needed to use my knife to survive at a trade show, then maybe a test at a trade show would be relevant.
Now in the case of TOPS, all of the R&D and T&E on each model was done in conjunction with different agencies and special operations teams who approached Mike, their peer in the community, to make mission-specific, versatile tools. They obviously are happy with the results, based on the numbers of these blades that are the hands of those users. That kind of R&D/T&E is relevant to the purpose of the knives, and the fact that they have been tested during real-world training AND operations, and they come back just fine for more punishment, tells me all I need to know.
That said, Jerry, even though your knives didn't necessarily go through this kind of development time and time again, your knives have proven themselves countless times in real-world missions as well -- I know from people in the field I trust and respect, who have told me. I also own a few Busse's, and they are among my favorites in my collection. My hat is off to you for the quality of your design and manufacture. The quality of your knives stands just fine on their own merits.
I hope nobody feels I'm being adulterous because I like more than one brand of high-performance knife.
To Eric Isaacson: Even though I was unhappy with the way you posted, my post to you was worse, and way beyond professional courtesy. I'd like to extend a public apology for the tone, and some of the words of my post, especially the a$$hole part. I should have limited my criticism to your actions only, as I perceived them. That won't happen again.
Best,
Brian.
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2001
- Messages
- 6,675
I kind of like this thread. People are getting to the root of the issue and dispensing with kid gloves. I do believe that this is meaningful, especially as we are talking about hard use knives that may very well save my butt someday. Saving your butt can be a very emotional issue.
What? Did you think youd get away without my opinion? Hehehehe . Not likely. Heres how I see it. Many of us buy custom made knives, and take pride and privilege in the interaction with the maker. If we deem the maker as trustworthy, we dont worry much about warranties. We know hes good for it if the knife fails under any remotely reasonable use. Warranty usually isnt an issue with custom knives, just because few people are stupid enough to intentionally destroy a knife of such high monetary value.
I paid a fairly high price for a Busse. I wasnt 100% satisfied at first, and Jerry made damn well sure that I was 100% satisfied. He completely stood by his products, even beyond his exceptional warranty. Jerry is a trustworthy man. He does charge a lot for his blades, but he makes sure that his customers are completely satisfied with the performance and durability. Im willing to pay more for this level or interaction and insurance of satisfaction.
But the lower the price, the worse the clientele. Just look at Marbles. I trust my comparatively VERY inexpensive Marbles, that it wont break under any remotely reasonably usage. Marbles once had a warranty similar to the Busse warranty. My guess is that the clientele at that price point required a more strongly worded warranty. People wont press their luck with an $800.00 custom bowie, but the weaker minded rich folk will do stupid things with a $100.00 blade. So Marbles ended up switching to the standard We decide what is abusive warranty. Its sad, but may be unavoidable at the Marbles price point.
So what am I trying to say? I guess Im saying that I agree with everybody. I have inexpensive Marbles knives that I trust. I also have expensive knives, like my Busse, that Id trust for emergencies that fall beyond abusive knife usage. I paid the extra for the quality assurance and manufacturing that allows me to rely so heavily on my Busse. I even have knives that fall between these two categories, with warranties that fall somewhere in between.
Im a realist and dont expect a $100.00 knife to be unconditionally warranted. Id love one, but wouldnt bet on that warranty being good for very long. I do expect a damn good warranty for a $300.00 knife, if the knife is meant to be used hard, and is not just a fancy file work piece. If the price is somewhere in between, I expect a warranty somewhere in between. If Tom Fuller is a good man, I expect him to stand by his product and take care of damage under any reasonably amount of usage. But, if his knives cost less than a Busse, I wouldnt expect him to hold as high a written warranty.
I will say one more thing about Busse. I paid for the peace of mind that my Busse will never fail, period. I paid for Infi. I paid for the destructive public testing. Nothing is free in life. You buy the best you can afford, and trust it appropriately. While I absolutely love the incredible cutting efficiency of my Marbles knives . If Im ever hanging from a cliff by the handle of my knife, I hope its my Busse.
If I buy a TOPS knife tomorrow for $200.00, Ill expect a very good quality assurance from Mr. Fuller. If I pay $300.00 for a TOPS, Ill expect either unparalleled cutting efficiency and design, or the bulletproof peace of mind provided by Busse. If I pay $500.00 for a purely functional fixed blade tomorrow, I better get both!!!!
What? Did you think youd get away without my opinion? Hehehehe . Not likely. Heres how I see it. Many of us buy custom made knives, and take pride and privilege in the interaction with the maker. If we deem the maker as trustworthy, we dont worry much about warranties. We know hes good for it if the knife fails under any remotely reasonable use. Warranty usually isnt an issue with custom knives, just because few people are stupid enough to intentionally destroy a knife of such high monetary value.
I paid a fairly high price for a Busse. I wasnt 100% satisfied at first, and Jerry made damn well sure that I was 100% satisfied. He completely stood by his products, even beyond his exceptional warranty. Jerry is a trustworthy man. He does charge a lot for his blades, but he makes sure that his customers are completely satisfied with the performance and durability. Im willing to pay more for this level or interaction and insurance of satisfaction.
But the lower the price, the worse the clientele. Just look at Marbles. I trust my comparatively VERY inexpensive Marbles, that it wont break under any remotely reasonably usage. Marbles once had a warranty similar to the Busse warranty. My guess is that the clientele at that price point required a more strongly worded warranty. People wont press their luck with an $800.00 custom bowie, but the weaker minded rich folk will do stupid things with a $100.00 blade. So Marbles ended up switching to the standard We decide what is abusive warranty. Its sad, but may be unavoidable at the Marbles price point.
So what am I trying to say? I guess Im saying that I agree with everybody. I have inexpensive Marbles knives that I trust. I also have expensive knives, like my Busse, that Id trust for emergencies that fall beyond abusive knife usage. I paid the extra for the quality assurance and manufacturing that allows me to rely so heavily on my Busse. I even have knives that fall between these two categories, with warranties that fall somewhere in between.
Im a realist and dont expect a $100.00 knife to be unconditionally warranted. Id love one, but wouldnt bet on that warranty being good for very long. I do expect a damn good warranty for a $300.00 knife, if the knife is meant to be used hard, and is not just a fancy file work piece. If the price is somewhere in between, I expect a warranty somewhere in between. If Tom Fuller is a good man, I expect him to stand by his product and take care of damage under any reasonably amount of usage. But, if his knives cost less than a Busse, I wouldnt expect him to hold as high a written warranty.
I will say one more thing about Busse. I paid for the peace of mind that my Busse will never fail, period. I paid for Infi. I paid for the destructive public testing. Nothing is free in life. You buy the best you can afford, and trust it appropriately. While I absolutely love the incredible cutting efficiency of my Marbles knives . If Im ever hanging from a cliff by the handle of my knife, I hope its my Busse.
If I buy a TOPS knife tomorrow for $200.00, Ill expect a very good quality assurance from Mr. Fuller. If I pay $300.00 for a TOPS, Ill expect either unparalleled cutting efficiency and design, or the bulletproof peace of mind provided by Busse. If I pay $500.00 for a purely functional fixed blade tomorrow, I better get both!!!!
Jerry Busse
Moderator
- Joined
- Aug 20, 1999
- Messages
- 11,982
"If I ever needed to use my knife to survive at a trade show, then maybe a test at a trade show would be relevant." - - - Brian Jones
That's very "cute" Brian. Is that supposed to dismiss or diminish controlled testing? Why, it seems to me that any knife that can survive all of the "real world" testing that you value so highly could simply breeze through the insignificant and irrelevant tests that we perform at trade shows. Why don't you call up all of your "real world" knife maker buddies and see if any of them would like to get publicly spanked by a $148.00 Swamp Rat, Battle Rat???? I doubt that it will be very good for either their business or your friendship.
Let me know,
Jerry Busse
That's very "cute" Brian. Is that supposed to dismiss or diminish controlled testing? Why, it seems to me that any knife that can survive all of the "real world" testing that you value so highly could simply breeze through the insignificant and irrelevant tests that we perform at trade shows. Why don't you call up all of your "real world" knife maker buddies and see if any of them would like to get publicly spanked by a $148.00 Swamp Rat, Battle Rat???? I doubt that it will be very good for either their business or your friendship.
Let me know,
Jerry Busse
That was me that had a problem with not getting a response from TOPS to emails that I sent.
It's seems obvious, but let me try to explain it again.
If TOPS, or whoever runs it, does not like computers, or email, or whatever, then I would think that offering email as an option for communicating with TOPS should be removed. Why offer an email address if you don't want to respond to emails?
If there was no email address listed, I would have called, and I would not even think of complaining about them not having an email address for communication with them. It would be a non problem, for me, and I'm sure, many others.
It's the fact that they do offer it, but will not or cannot respond to emails that I have a problem with.
That it has been explained on this forum or others is really beside the point, for two reasons:
1) What about the people who do not read these or other forums, and just end up taking their business to another company that can respond to emails.
2) I have never read anything about TOPS not responding to emails, and I did not bother with a search to see if it had been an issue for others in the past. Why should I?
It's really simple, I would think...Just remove the email address, because it only pisses people off and it's most certainly not a means of communicating with TOPS. There is just no reason to make it available, that I can see.
Okay, since this has come up before, and TOPS still offers an email address that is for basically useless, maybe they just don't know how irritating it is.
I myself will call TOPS and explain the situation to them, and maybe this will make a difference.
Either way, pissing & moaning about it here is pointless, unless of course the people that actually do know Mike Fuller will relay this information to him.
I myself will call TOPS and explain the situation to them, and maybe this will make a difference.
Either way, pissing & moaning about it here is pointless, unless of course the people that actually do know Mike Fuller will relay this information to him.
- Joined
- May 7, 2001
- Messages
- 1,138
As someone that is just entering the cutlery industry, i find this thread to be enlightening and entertaining, i am glad that i took the time to read the whole thing.
I am a big supporter of Science and Scientific method, but i am not going to be sending one of my designs to Cliff Stamp.
You pay for warrenties. Everyone must budget them into the cost of their product, the more money they expect to pay for replacements the more expensive the initial purchase must be. The cost of the warrenty is also related to the cost of the knife to replace, and how likely they consider a failure and a claim, it's all statistics.
I dont worry about breaking any of my fixed blade knives, i feel that any knife i buy (means i like it) will hold up as long as i treat it with respect.
The only knives i worry about breaking are my folders.
I am a big supporter of Science and Scientific method, but i am not going to be sending one of my designs to Cliff Stamp.
You pay for warrenties. Everyone must budget them into the cost of their product, the more money they expect to pay for replacements the more expensive the initial purchase must be. The cost of the warrenty is also related to the cost of the knife to replace, and how likely they consider a failure and a claim, it's all statistics.
I dont worry about breaking any of my fixed blade knives, i feel that any knife i buy (means i like it) will hold up as long as i treat it with respect.
The only knives i worry about breaking are my folders.
I've been hammering on Mike for the past year about getting a computer. In fact it's a running joke between him and I since he's always trying to call me and never can get me because I'm on the road so much. I told him to buy a damn computer so he could get in touch with me anytime he wanted because I carry a laptop with me. However, knowing Mike like I do he's one of these guys that is a workaholic and would rather be in the shop from sunup to sundown than around a computer. He's also from the "old school" of talking in person to someone. Their website and email is handled by someone else and sometimes it's a few days before Mike gets to see the emails, since he is also on the road a lot.
Contender, thanks amigo. Looks like you succeeded at what you were trying to do. I was told this morning that the magazine wouldn't like it too much being dragged into this. I can't blame them. Unless something changes it looks like I will no longer be writing for Tactical Knives magazine. Of course the magazine runs several months ahead so you will still get to read my articles in a few more issues. Enjoy, because it's a great magazine.
No big deal. I've had limbs chopped off behind me by bigger folks - such as the federal government. The bottom line to all of this is no one will ever place conditions on me. If it meant losing my "job" because of an anonymous poster injecting TK into a thread that had nothing to do with them, then so be it. Call it fate. I have no regrets or apologies because I know the integrity of Mike Fuller and that's worth everything that has happened in this thread. I would defend him again against idiots such as Cliff Stamp. Unless Spark bans me from this forum then I will continue to challenge Cliff on issues that I have more experience in. He's an idiot and I do take him personally and will continue to attack him personally for all the things he has done to hurt good people in this industry. I was raised to speak the truth, stand up for what's right, and let the chips fall where they may, regardless of support from others. I refuse to deviate from that way of life.
Jeff
No big deal. I've had limbs chopped off behind me by bigger folks - such as the federal government. The bottom line to all of this is no one will ever place conditions on me. If it meant losing my "job" because of an anonymous poster injecting TK into a thread that had nothing to do with them, then so be it. Call it fate. I have no regrets or apologies because I know the integrity of Mike Fuller and that's worth everything that has happened in this thread. I would defend him again against idiots such as Cliff Stamp. Unless Spark bans me from this forum then I will continue to challenge Cliff on issues that I have more experience in. He's an idiot and I do take him personally and will continue to attack him personally for all the things he has done to hurt good people in this industry. I was raised to speak the truth, stand up for what's right, and let the chips fall where they may, regardless of support from others. I refuse to deviate from that way of life.
Jeff
- Joined
- Mar 20, 1999
- Messages
- 7,497
Now that everything is over, let's get back to the main issue at hand about the free knife...?
Now that really sucks...this has gone too far, to say the least.
I am going to be calling up TK, and letting them know what I think about this decision, and quite probably cancelling my subscription.
I would suggest that everyone else that reads this thread do the same, because what they have done is just not right.
I am going to be calling up TK, and letting them know what I think about this decision, and quite probably cancelling my subscription.
I would suggest that everyone else that reads this thread do the same, because what they have done is just not right.
Jeff -
I am truly sorry if you think that my one post in this thread was the reason for TK severing its ties with you. (If that were true, don't you think that the previous post by mikemck whereby he threatens to revoke his subscription would have restored it ?)
Do you think that your carrying on post after post in this thread in a way that was unprofessional and full of personal attacks and name calling might have had anything to do with it ??
A journalist is supposed to be unbiased and objective and steer away from personal attacks and insults. I believe you failed to do that and that is the reason for TK severing its ties with you.
I am truly sorry that whole thread went the way that it did and that as a result you lost your relationship with TK.
I am truly sorry if you think that my one post in this thread was the reason for TK severing its ties with you. (If that were true, don't you think that the previous post by mikemck whereby he threatens to revoke his subscription would have restored it ?)
Do you think that your carrying on post after post in this thread in a way that was unprofessional and full of personal attacks and name calling might have had anything to do with it ??
A journalist is supposed to be unbiased and objective and steer away from personal attacks and insults. I believe you failed to do that and that is the reason for TK severing its ties with you.
I am truly sorry that whole thread went the way that it did and that as a result you lost your relationship with TK.
Whoa amigo. I appreciate the support BUT they did not tell me to leave, instead they said basically if this continues then you won't be writing for the magazine anymore. I will not post up the direct quote at this time or where this came from - out of professional courtesy. Please do not read anymore into this than what has been said here. TK is a great magazine. Their writers are first class and top notch and they have a ton of field experience behind them. If you quit the magazine because of this then it would be the same as Contender's childish act of quitting the magazine because I write for it. Don't base TK on Jeff Randall or Jeff Randall on TK. I'm nothing but a free-lance writer, so base my work for the magazine on its OWN merits, nothing more.
Now, with all that said. This communication implies that if I speak my mind anymore on a subject that doesn't concern TK, and SOMEONE else brings TK into it then I could be "fired." Sorry, Jeff doesn't play that way. That is a PERSONAL choice not to play games and follow party lines. TK does not own Jeff Randall in any way. When I work for TK then I am a full team player and offer full support. Always have. However, when I'm working on something for myself that does not concern them then they have zero say in what I do.
The funny part about all of this is I knew once that statement was made by Contender that the shitstorm would start. I stand on EVERYTHING I have typed here. No apologies. I would do it again for TOPS or anyone else because I know their integrity.
Now, with all that said. This communication implies that if I speak my mind anymore on a subject that doesn't concern TK, and SOMEONE else brings TK into it then I could be "fired." Sorry, Jeff doesn't play that way. That is a PERSONAL choice not to play games and follow party lines. TK does not own Jeff Randall in any way. When I work for TK then I am a full team player and offer full support. Always have. However, when I'm working on something for myself that does not concern them then they have zero say in what I do.
The funny part about all of this is I knew once that statement was made by Contender that the shitstorm would start. I stand on EVERYTHING I have typed here. No apologies. I would do it again for TOPS or anyone else because I know their integrity.
Contender, your post was quoted directly in the email I received this morning.
BTW: I am very unbiased in my reporting for TK. Always have been. I am NOT unbiased in my personal thoughts on various subjects. I'm human.
BTW: I am very unbiased in my reporting for TK. Always have been. I am NOT unbiased in my personal thoughts on various subjects. I'm human.
Jeff is right, cancelling my sub with TK would be pointless and juvenile, but I will be calling them to express my opinion on what they have done, or tried to do. I would hope that anyone else who feels TK is wrong would also call and make them aware of it.
Because, although I did not subscribe to TK for any one reason, I do enjoy Jeff's writing.
This thread has been a real eye opener, in more ways than one...
Speaking of Dillon and their warranty:
Dillon used to offer a full lifetime unconditional "no BS" warranty on the 1050, but they don't anymore. Now, where does that leave the people who bought a 1050 with the "no BS" warranty?
When I buy a product, I find out about the warranty, and make my decision with the written warranty in mind....I decide to buy or not buy, and I will abide buy the conditions, restrictions, and limitations set forth in the warranty, and if a company wants to go above and beyond that then that's great, but if they do not, that's great to. I knew what the warranty was when I bought the product. Whining about it is pointless.
Dillon, on the other hand, changed the warranty, and that is just plain wrong....so much for a "no BS" warranty after all..
Because, although I did not subscribe to TK for any one reason, I do enjoy Jeff's writing.
This thread has been a real eye opener, in more ways than one...
Speaking of Dillon and their warranty:
Dillon used to offer a full lifetime unconditional "no BS" warranty on the 1050, but they don't anymore. Now, where does that leave the people who bought a 1050 with the "no BS" warranty?
When I buy a product, I find out about the warranty, and make my decision with the written warranty in mind....I decide to buy or not buy, and I will abide buy the conditions, restrictions, and limitations set forth in the warranty, and if a company wants to go above and beyond that then that's great, but if they do not, that's great to. I knew what the warranty was when I bought the product. Whining about it is pointless.
Dillon, on the other hand, changed the warranty, and that is just plain wrong....so much for a "no BS" warranty after all..
I did not intend to interject my opinions in this debate, however recent developments compel me to. I will state at the outset, that I enjoy a good relationship with Cliff Stamp. I don't always agree with him, but I do enjoy reading his reviews and my correspondence and interactions with him and others. I also enjoy Jeff Randall's articles and reviews. I do not always agree with either of them, but both have provoked thoughtful discussion of knife design and use. I also enjoythe debate that their different points of view inspire. I will not comment on the issue of personal attacks for the purpose of this post.
I have written this letter to Steven Dick and sent it via email. I encourage you to do the same.
Dear Mr. Dick,
By way of introduction, my name is Chad D. Engelhardt; I am a
Deputy Sheriff in the state of Michigan, an office I have held for
over ten years. I am a regular reader of TK magazine, as well as a
regular contributor to the on-line knife community.
I am writing in regards to a recent thread on the website
www.bladeforums.com wherein it was written that TK is considering, or
has, severed its association with Jeff Randall based on statements
written on Bladeforums. If this allegation is true, I think it is a
very poor decision on the part of TK magazine and Harris Publishing.
Jeff Randall has been an asset to your readers, I have bought many
TK magazines soley to read the articles that Mr. Randall has
authored. I may not always agree with Mr. Randall's opinion about a
specific product or wilderness skill or practice, but his columns are
always relavent, well written and thought provoking. He has done
much, both through his own website and his articles in TK to educate
people on wilderness and jungle surival skills and equipment.
In regards to the specific statements, or series of statements, in
question these have all been directed towards independent knife
reviewer Cliff Stamp. As you may be aware, Mr. Stamp is a
controversial figure in the on-line knife community. He uses some
extreme testing measures in evaluating products. One of Mr. Stamp's
goals is to inspire discussion, both of his testing methods and the
subject of his evaluation.
Bladeforums, and the other knife related discussion forums, are
driven by free debate and discussion of ideas. Mr. Stamp has placed
purposefully himself in a situation where he expects, in fact
desires, to have his ideas subject to scrutiny. Mr. Stamp is an
opponent of on-line censorship and an advocate for free speech, as
can be seen by visiting his web page. I, personally, have developed a
good rapport with Mr. Stamp, though I recognize that many of the
other members of the community do not hold him in high regards. The
ability to critique methods, ideas and sometimes each other is a
hallmark of the computer based knife community. Each member has equal
access to defend himself and their ideas. As the Justice Holmes wrote
in his theory of "the Market Place of Ideas" free speech is central
to a free society. As a member of the press yourself, thse are ideals
that I am sure you espouse as well.
In any event, I do not believe that any reasonable reader would
believe that the statements made by Mr. Randall were a reflection on
TK magazine, nor would anyone believe that statements were made in
his capacity as a writer, contributing editor or employee of TK
magazine or Harris Publishing.
IF TK intends to dismiss Jeff Randall based on any statements made
in Forum discussion, I will no longer be a reader. Furthermore, if
that is the case, I fully intend to discourage my friends and other
members of the online knife community, which as you are aware is many
thousands of people, many of whom are TK readers, to boycott your
publication and notify your advertisors of the reasons.
I thank you in advance for your time and consideration in this
matter and await your response.
Yours Truly,
Chad D. Engelhardt
I have written this letter to Steven Dick and sent it via email. I encourage you to do the same.
Dear Mr. Dick,
By way of introduction, my name is Chad D. Engelhardt; I am a
Deputy Sheriff in the state of Michigan, an office I have held for
over ten years. I am a regular reader of TK magazine, as well as a
regular contributor to the on-line knife community.
I am writing in regards to a recent thread on the website
www.bladeforums.com wherein it was written that TK is considering, or
has, severed its association with Jeff Randall based on statements
written on Bladeforums. If this allegation is true, I think it is a
very poor decision on the part of TK magazine and Harris Publishing.
Jeff Randall has been an asset to your readers, I have bought many
TK magazines soley to read the articles that Mr. Randall has
authored. I may not always agree with Mr. Randall's opinion about a
specific product or wilderness skill or practice, but his columns are
always relavent, well written and thought provoking. He has done
much, both through his own website and his articles in TK to educate
people on wilderness and jungle surival skills and equipment.
In regards to the specific statements, or series of statements, in
question these have all been directed towards independent knife
reviewer Cliff Stamp. As you may be aware, Mr. Stamp is a
controversial figure in the on-line knife community. He uses some
extreme testing measures in evaluating products. One of Mr. Stamp's
goals is to inspire discussion, both of his testing methods and the
subject of his evaluation.
Bladeforums, and the other knife related discussion forums, are
driven by free debate and discussion of ideas. Mr. Stamp has placed
purposefully himself in a situation where he expects, in fact
desires, to have his ideas subject to scrutiny. Mr. Stamp is an
opponent of on-line censorship and an advocate for free speech, as
can be seen by visiting his web page. I, personally, have developed a
good rapport with Mr. Stamp, though I recognize that many of the
other members of the community do not hold him in high regards. The
ability to critique methods, ideas and sometimes each other is a
hallmark of the computer based knife community. Each member has equal
access to defend himself and their ideas. As the Justice Holmes wrote
in his theory of "the Market Place of Ideas" free speech is central
to a free society. As a member of the press yourself, thse are ideals
that I am sure you espouse as well.
In any event, I do not believe that any reasonable reader would
believe that the statements made by Mr. Randall were a reflection on
TK magazine, nor would anyone believe that statements were made in
his capacity as a writer, contributing editor or employee of TK
magazine or Harris Publishing.
IF TK intends to dismiss Jeff Randall based on any statements made
in Forum discussion, I will no longer be a reader. Furthermore, if
that is the case, I fully intend to discourage my friends and other
members of the online knife community, which as you are aware is many
thousands of people, many of whom are TK readers, to boycott your
publication and notify your advertisors of the reasons.
I thank you in advance for your time and consideration in this
matter and await your response.
Yours Truly,
Chad D. Engelhardt
Again guys, I totally appreciate the support but the fact remains that TK is still the best magazine out there for what we do. Don't deprive yourself of that because of this. One of the main reason I posted this up is so Contender would know that the magazine does take comments from readers seriously. Even if you have no association with it, they do listen to feedback. What I guess I'm trying to say is bitching and complaining does work, even though many folks don't think it does. That's a good thing in an ironic way The problem is writers are sometimes treated to a double standard that the readers are not subjected to. That sucks.
Am I pissed at Contender? No. For me to be pissed at his childish behavior would not be fair while I used the same childish behavior towards Stamp...and will do it again because I just don't like him. I refuse to set a double standard though. Plus Contender's post proved some things I had already suspected.
My philosophy on life is pretty simple: all negatives have a positive and all positives have a negative. No real big setback on what happened here. Something better will come fom it.
Looks at the contributing editor masthead and you will see a lot of folks that have the field experience. Most of these guys I know. If you start cancelling subs because of this incident then you're only hurting them and depriving yourself of good stuff. I'm the only one that should have a bitch with the magazine at this point.
The problem is writers are sometimes treated to a double standard that the readers are not subjected to. That sucks.Am I pissed at Contender? No. For me to be pissed at his childish behavior would not be fair while I used the same childish behavior towards Stamp...and will do it again because I just don't like him. I refuse to set a double standard though. Plus Contender's post proved some things I had already suspected.
My philosophy on life is pretty simple: all negatives have a positive and all positives have a negative. No real big setback on what happened here. Something better will come fom it.
Looks at the contributing editor masthead and you will see a lot of folks that have the field experience. Most of these guys I know. If you start cancelling subs because of this incident then you're only hurting them and depriving yourself of good stuff. I'm the only one that should have a bitch with the magazine at this point.
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2000
- Messages
- 698
This CRAP about TK mag being the greatest is nonsense. If they was to fire Mr. Randall let TK mag COME ON THIS TREAD AND SPEAK. If not SCREW EM!!! I will read something else.....
Brian Jones
Moderator
- Joined
- Jan 17, 1999
- Messages
- 7,560
Jerry, I'm glad you brought that up! See my sig line and link -- sign up for the TAG Extreme Expo as an exhibitor -- the show is designed to have makers of all sorts of products "put up or shut up" in the arena of real-world use and abuse. It'll cure all the online arguments once and for all, and raise the bar in tactical product development.
That show is EXACTLY the kind of forum you mentioned here, and would be the best opportunity yet for you to show your stuff as it compares to others.Drop me an email at my profile email address, and I'll personally make sure you get a great location.
Best,
Brian.
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