What is the point?

[ptgdvc]

Some will dismiss this as pandering to political correctness, while others will applaud it as representative of basic courtesy and thoughtfulness.
Roger

The foolish straight jacket of political correctness was created by our intentional abandonment of simple courtesy and manners. A terrible trade if there ever was one.

P

 

[Kohai999]

Steven,
I do not know why I took that so hard but I see now that you where trying to help. I will have thicker skin in the future. And I have learned a good deal on this forum. And your right, a good handle takes some time to perfect. I will keep trying as I do have high goals for my knives. I might have gotten to close to that one, to get a good look at it. I am over it now. I look forward to meeting you. I hear you might be at OKC show, come by and say hi.

Dave,

I'll stop by at Eugene, for sure....

Just as you are trying to perfect your approach and techniques with knifemaking, I am always trying to improve my writing ability, as personal income, respect, and gainful employment are dependant upon skillful use of this tool.

This thread has really driven home how my badly chosen words don't work for individuals and for the general promotion of the point...and there is much work to be done......I really feel terrible for giving you reason to be upset.

Thanks for communicating that.....it is hard to write things of the sort when the "world" is watching.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[butcher_block]

i cant get better with out taking some heat now and then
that said i can sort out most as ether workmanship or opinion i dont worry near as much about opinion

 

[Kohai999]

i cant get better with out taking some heat now and then
that said i can sort out most as ether workmanship or opinion i dont worry near as much about opinion

Material choice can be a huge area of contention, and this is not clearly defined as workmanship or opinion.

Say a customer orders a knife for heavy use in a marine environment....if the right communication and discussion does not take place...the resultant material choices and performance of the knife could ultimately be a disaster....right?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[thombrogan]

Lloyd's made some S30V knives for a chef who detests stainless more than STeven detests reading Stamp/Welk arguments, so I'd say there's some merit to being thick-skinned.

 

[butcher_block]

true about the handle scales depending on use when i am taking an order i like to know what the use will be and help with the choices.
once not long ago i tried to explane about the color and pushed to a different scale set he wanted the one i was unsure about and when it got there he was happy with the knife be not so much about the color. might be working on another knife for him is a different shade soon he will let me know

thom
to be fair his daughter got the s30v he and his wife got cpm154

 

[butcher_block]

oo and it sorta sounds like i dont care what people think but thats not the way i mean it

every one has there own style and i know i dont fit with some
if the customer is happy and i show the knife here and catch flak do you think it bothers me nope
i worry more about the form fit and flow when i post a pic over here not color steel or scales (natural vs man made)

 

[thombrogan]

to be fair his daughter got the s30v he and his wife got cpm154

He says that, but you just know he's getting up before his wife and using her knife with a pleasure heightened only by the shame of going against his very vocalized ideals.

At least in my mind he does.

 

[Megalobyte]

For me, this is really a pretty simple thing. If a maker posts his work, he opens the door as they say in the courtroom, because the post really is a: "Look what I just made, what do you think" sort of post, even absent words to that effect, and the maker is taking a calculated risk with a possible commercial payoff, so he assumes the risk of getting some negative comments and must at least tolerate them if he wants the possible payoff (new orders, prestige), it's fair.

But, when a collector posts his newest toy, I believe the right thing to do is praise, or keep silent. Collectors rarely if ever post pics of their new knives looking for criticism and it sure does take the wind from their sails if responses make them feel badly about their purchase, it's just not very nice to do, after all, isn't posting your newest knife a big, and enjoyable part of collecting? Why would anyone want to upset, and potentially turn off a fellow collector, outside of ego?

Yes, forums like this one can be useful to create growth, both of makers and collectors, but, when a collector just bought a new knife, wants to show it off, that is not the time for growth/criticism, it's the time for sharing his joy with him, or, if you don't want to, fine, but don't ruin or taint his moment because you feel it's your duty to do so. Is it duty, or ego in such cases?

There's a word that captures the idea of helping people who don't want your help, based on the belief you know better, it's called tyranny. History is full of tyrants who felt a genuine duty to save people from themselves...

Just my opinion of course.

 

[jjtjr]

For me, this is really a pretty simple thing. If a maker posts his work, he opens the door as they say in the courtroom, because the post really is a: "Look what I just made, what do you think" sort of post, even absent words to that effect, and the maker is taking a calculated risk with a possible commercial payoff, so he assumes the risk of getting some negative comments and must at least tolerate them if he wants the possible payoff (new orders, prestige), it's fair.

But, when a collector posts his newest toy, I believe the right thing to do is praise, or keep silent. Collectors rarely if ever post pics of their new knives looking for criticism and it sure does take the wind from their sails if responses make them feel badly about their purchase, it's just not very nice to do, after all, isn't posting your newest knife a big, and enjoyable part of collecting? Why would anyone want to upset, and potentially turn off a fellow collector, outside of ego?

Yes, forums like this one can be useful to create growth, both of makers and collectors, but, when a collector just bought a new knife, wants to show it off, that is not the time for growth/criticism, it's the time for sharing his joy with him, or, if you don't want to, fine, but don't ruin or taint his moment because you feel it's your duty to do so. Is it duty, or ego in such cases?

There's a word that describes the idea of helping people who don't want your help, it's called tyranny.

Just my opinion of course.

Megalobyte,

I agree 100% with what you have just said. Comments to a maker might actually improve future work.

Comments to a collector can definitely ruin feeling for a new knife. Different people like different knives.
Jim Treacy

 

[Russ Andrews]

When do we know enough to stop learning/listening....?

Last year, Keith Montgomery was posting photos & descriptions
of a bowie in progress. STeven noted that the ricasso was too long
and said so...and it WAS too long.
It was shortened. The project was better for it, and all concerned
were happier for his constructive criticism.

STeven, I hope you continue to speak up, and if a feather gets
ruffled now and then......OK...it's part of growth.

 

[betzner]

Steven - When I posted an image once, in my first days on Bladeforums, you gave an unsolicited opinion of it which was, in my opinion at the time, terse and caustic. It pissed me off. But after no more than an hour's reflection, I sorted it out.

Electronic communication is not communication. It is information dissemination. One doesn't see the greater part of communication electronically, notably facial and body language and tonal qualities. So I took it for what it was - information on your opinion. I just think too many people think that e-crap is really communication - and it isn't. One can't read a person's intent within the typed words. But plenty of people still go sideways thinking they've been insulted when there was no such intent. So I say to those in the crowd, think before you react and maybe you won't go to bed all pissed off.

Incidentally, in not much time at all, I saw the contributions your comments made, to projects, people, etc. In face to face communications, I "tell it like it is". Sometimes it's good to adapt to lessen a problem with others, but as a general rule, it takes two to tangle - which makes putting this on the table such a great idea in the first place.

 

[Kohai999]

Regardless of this threads’ outcome so far, or Tai’s observance, I maintain this is not about me.

What is noticed is everyone saying that critique should be handled with tact…and as such, is a good thing….agreed…so now, that we have put this issue further out into the open, we can expect more Forumites to become actively involved with critique and feedback, so the discussions can be honest, open and hopefully even more stimulating than in the past.

Enthusiasm cannot be directly seen, so you have to go with the words used, and how they are used. Many of you are at a disadvantage, in that you have not met or seen many of the regulars. Between e-mails, telephone calls, and shows…I know many of the Forumites better than most of my neighbors….and their online persona VERY much matches what they are like in the “real” world….the thought that online posting is not communication does not accurately reflect my experiences.

I have been “blessed” with an eye for certain elements of knife make-up…taking no real credit for this…the effort has been made working hard to learn, every day, and listening to every one I talk with who has things to say……so, many of you have no reason to remain quiet anymore….because your experiences and thoughts will teach the rest of us.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Stephen F]

Personally I think if your are going to critique you should be prepared to expose yourself to the same ... i.e. post pictures. I guess your reticence to share your collection STeven means you could take this as being directed at you, but it is a general point also.

Stephen

 

[Kohai999]

Sorry, double tap

 

[Kohai999]

Personally I think if your are going to critique you should be prepared to expose yourself to the same ... i.e. post pictures. I guess your reticence to share your collection STeven means you could take this as being directed at you, but it is a general point also.

Stephen

It is not taken as being directed at me.....that said, the only reason that I don't post my stuff for the whole frikkin world to see is one of security concerns.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[lwrhea]

When I first came to the Bladeforums, STeven was quick to comment on what he liked and did not like about my knives. I admit it , the criticism, bothered me a little, but since then I have come to realize his good intent and the value of his comments.

He even called me on the phone to be sure that his intentions were understood and that he meant his criticism to be constructive. That phone call meant a lot to me. It also provided the encouragement to keep growing and not be so sensitive.

I will say, though, STeven, you have mellowed. Lin

 

[Kevin Jones]

It is not taken as being directed at me.....that said, the only reason that I don't post my stuff for the whole frikkin world to see is one of security concerns.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

That's a legitimate concern, however it's a shame the number of beautiful custom knives that go from maker to collector safe without being shared with the whole frikkin world.
I will take my chances.

I just got one of my Fisk NLT's back from being displayed in an exhibit where I'm told aprox. 50,000 people viewed it along with the other displayed art objects over a three month period. They had the knife four months and I was a bit nervous about it, however received it back yesterday in the same perfect condition as it left me.

 

[Kohai999]

That's a legitimate concern, however it's a shame the number of beautiful custom knives that go from maker to collector safe without being shared with the whole frikkin world.
I will take my chances.

Different locales, different risks/rewards....your chances of certain events are lower than mine....you know that.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Kevin Jones]

Different locales, different risks/rewards....your chances of certain events are lower than mine....you know that.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

You are right.
Even when you loan knives out to professional displayers/exhibitors, there's still risk that it will be mis-handled or finger prints left on will turn to rust/corrosion etc.