What Makes a Good, Traditional Barlow?



I didnt know what I would think of the spey blade but now that I have it in hand I believe its a winner. The part i like the best is how low in the frame the blade rides when its closed.
 
Nice instant collection, AND photography, animalxx!!

Double post - but worth saying twice!!
 
animalxxmother said:


I didnt know what I would think of the spey blade but now that I have it in hand I believe its a winner. The part i like the best is how low in the frame the blade rides when its closed.
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Exactly my thoughts too. Very low profile. Particularly in single blade version it's extremely pocketable.

 
animalxxmother said:
I didnt know what I would think of the spey blade but now that I have it in hand I believe its a winner. The part i like the best is how low in the frame the blade rides when its closed.
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I agree that the way a Spey blade sits deep in the handle pocket is very attractive for ease of carry of a slim profile when closed.

I made a construction paper insert for the handle pocket, and after studying how Clip, Spear, and Sheepfoot Charlow blade shapes interact with it, here are some observations.

1. If you press down on at the blade of a closed Charlow, you will discover that it will easily fit an additional 1/4" into the pocket, with 1/16" to spare, before bottoming out on the spring or head pin. But be very careful, as you can ding the tip of a sheep foot, or the edge of other blade shapes.

2. The sheep foot blade will hit the head pin at the very tip of the blade, before it hits the spring hump at the middle pin, but it is still possible to lower the tip of a Sheepfoot by 1/4" below the liners, without it bottoming out anywhere.

3. Because of the upward curve of the blade edge at the point, on other blade profiles, including spear, spey, and clip, there will be no contact with the head pin, only at the spring hump.

4. It appears to be a cutlery convention that the tip of a blade be set only about 1/16" below the liners. this appears to be an aesthetic decision, relating to the look of the blade spine in relation to the curve of the head of the handle.

5. The spear blade will be limited as to how deep it can sit in the pocket, because the pull gets so close to the liners that it becomes hidden. This is not true of Clip or Sheepfoot blades. The spey blade needs no adjustments of any kind, as it already sits as low as possible in the pocket, while still revealing the nail nick.

6. Filing the kick will lower a blade in the pocket, but it will also lower the back spring when closed, so it is not flush. Don't file your kick unless you're OK with that. I don't think cutlers will ever agree to build a sheep foot, or any other blade profile, with the tip of the blade as deep in the pocket as it will fit without touching, so the only way to get a deep set sheep foot, is to file your own kick, at your own risk.

7. Over time with sharpening, the tip of any blade profile can end up above the liners. The primary way to bring the tip of the blade back down below the edge of the liners, is to file the kick, so you end up with a sunken back spring when closed. This has no effect on the spring position when the blade is fully open.

8. Another way to bring a proud point back below the liners is to reshape the spine of the blade downward, which shortens the blade, but this approach does not produce a sunken backspring. I find this approach works well with Clip point blades that sit proud, instead of filing the kick, but it also works with other blade profiles.

9. When I lowered the sheep foot blade on my 2 blade Charlow, I also had to lower the kick on the pen blade, to keep the primary blade pull uncovered. Lowering the kick on a pen blade is challenging, due to the shape of the tang placing the contact point of the kick almost flush with the frame.

This pic shows a lowered sheepfoot on the left, and the stock position on the right
IMG_7179.JPG


this is the effect on the backspring, dropped kick in front, stock in back
IMG_7240.JPG


here is an unmodified spear on the left, and the drop kicked sheepfoot on the right
IMG_7184.JPG


Here is the unmodified spear, in front of the dropkicked sheep behind, note the spines are essentially at the same height now.
IMG_7185.JPG


Here is my 2 blade sheepfoot on the left, before modification, next to a single blade, also unmodified
IMG_8513.JPG


here is my 2 blade sheepfoot on the left, after dropping the kick on both blades, so you can see the pulls, on the right is the dropkicked single sheepfoot
IMG_8511.JPG


here is the resulting sunken backsprings on the modified 2 blade sheepfoot
IMG_8675.PNG


one last warning, dont modify your knife if you dont plan to keep it, as it will detract from its resale value. Otoh, I am much happier with my drop kicked sheep, as the proud blade was very disturbing to me, especially on a single blade. ymmv
 
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John, could you do some actual kick comparisons? I know you're not taking much off but it'd be nice to see just what I'm getting into. Great pics by the way. I've done this to a handleful of cheap junk shop knives but I've been hesitant to scrape away at any of my "nicer ones".
I have no idea what that gesco steel is on my Barlow that I said I'd be lowering. I had a heck of a time trying to file it with little to no results. I gave up and will be getting a new file to see if that'd help. The one that I've been using is a 12" that I hold stationary while moving the knife. I want to get a small file and go the opposite route. The large file has worked on all other knives I've put it to so I'm a little baffled by this.
I guess a good traditional Barlow, sometimes, has incredibly hard steel. :confused:
 
BarlowsinNScat1_zpsddec893f.jpg


Looking at this picture, and given the number of blade styles that have come out so far, I am wondering if a razor and a wharncliffe are in the offing?
 
Alnamvet68 said:
BarlowsinNScat1_zpsddec893f.jpg


Looking at this picture, and given the number of blade styles that have come out so far, I am wondering if a razor and a wharncliffe are in the offing?
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A quick search of this very thread reveals that a razor barlow is very much in the offing (huzzah!), and that a wharncliffe barlow is not a thing. There is no historical precedent for the latter on a barlow frame, so it would not come under the aegis of the "Good, Traditional" that Charlie is going for-- although one rules out outliers at one's own risk. :cool:

~ P.
 


l-r Gec 25 Stag, RR White Bone Scrimshaw, Queen Sawnbone, Charlow Tan Sawn, Ablett stag.
 
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MrVandercar said:
John, could you do some actual kick comparisons? I know you're not taking much off but it'd be nice to see just what I'm getting into.
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sure, the three on the left are not modified, the three on the right are modified. I use a dremmel. btw, it is a very good idea to cover your blade edge in painters tape or similar. And if you press test, if not tape, also consider putting a sliver of construction paper in the pocket as padding to prevent dinging the blade.
IMG_0574.JPG

IMG_0571.JPG

IMG_0572.JPG


this pic shows the modification to both the primary sheepfoot, and also to the pen blade. The knife is the same 2 blade blackwood sheepfoot pictured in my previous post, and second from right in this post
IMG_8674.PNG


Alnamvet68 said:
Looking at this picture, and given the number of blade styles that have come out so far, I am wondering if a razor and a wharncliffe are in the offing?
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Pertinux got you covered. Just to add, there is no wharncliffe in your picture, but also no trapper pattern, yet Charlie built one. And there are modern barlows with wharncliffe secondaries, and TBose makes a trapper with a wharncliffe, so, you never know.. And yes, a Razor charlow is next, it might even have a long pull, not sure though. Most recent mention is in the Radio thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1158060-Turn-Your-Radio-On!/page14
waynorth said:
So many knives to make, so little time.:eek:

I don't know. I think my next one might be the Razor Barlow. It is long overdue!:(

There is another project brewing also.

I think this will be the last caplifter for a while. But nothing is ruled out in the longer term.
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Thanks Jon. Yeah... Tape the blade... I do that, but sometimes, when you're working on a kick that just will not shed steel you can get a little over zealous and tape is only so thick. In other words I ground up the blade pretty well on this project. Was planning on flattening out the edge and re sharpening anyway so it's no biggie.
 
I will have to say this one makes a great traditional Barlow....you see, I ordered a chestnut version that should have arrived at my home last Saturday, but it didn't, even though the tracking stated it was delivered; apparently it was pinched by who knows...that said, the great folks at KSF made good on the knife, and I got a red bone instead, seeing as the chestnut was out of stock. I am very pleased with this excellent rendition of an old classic that is 344 years old, and families from Sheffield, GB to the US have waged battle as to who in fact are the real Barlow's. To say I am pleased would be too modest, and again I thank KSF for their exceptional customer support which is nothing less than perfect...



...whoops, last night's late evening snack..:o

 
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