What's so special about a bushcraft knife?

What it comes down to with any knife, not necessarily the grind type but the geometry and thickness of the grind. Especially the edge and just above the edge. "Bushcraft" knives are mostly an 1/8" thick or thinner with most being around 3/32" thick. Most knives labeled "survival" are thick stock and can be beat on. Bushcraft labeled knives are made for carving, slicing and close up work. Scandi grinds are the norm for the so called "bushcraft" knife but IMO, other grind types will work just as well.
Scott
 
I'm sure I read (Maybe in Kochanski's book) that a good mora was tested by hammering it into a tree and standing on the handle to see if it could support your weight.
Anybody else read that somewhere?
 
I'm sure I read (Maybe in Kochanski's book) that a good mora was tested by hammering it into a tree and standing on the handle to see if it could support your weight.
Anybody else read that somewhere?

Yep. I heard that was his true test of a knife, yey he carries a Mora. 510 IIRC. There are pics that have been posted here with his Mora hanging from a neck rig.
Some have mentioned that his Mora likely wouldn't hold up to that test. Personally I've never tried and probably won't.
 
If by "bushcraft knife" one means something like the traditional Scandinavian knives such as puukkos, or the Ray Mears Woodlore and pals kind of knives that largely imitate such Scandinavian designs with minor changes like thicker blade stock and such... then the special thing about them is that they actually work extremely well for working wood and allow for a great variety of different grips for different situations and tasks (since there aren't any bothersome finger guards and similar obstructions in the way). The original Scandinavian designs from which this type of bushcraft knife is derived from was intended to be an effective, simple general use and woodworking tool that, combined with an axe, could basically handle all a man might expect to have to do in the Scandinavian wilderness. Compared to modern day tactical knives for example, the difference in woodworking performance is very great indeed.

Of course, sometimes "bushcraft knife" is used to refer to "any knife you might feel like taking outdoors to do... well, bushcrafty thingies." :D In that case, there isn't anything particularly special about them, since they can be any knife.

To get back to the Scandinavian style bushcraft knife, though, they are very different knives compared to American tacticals like Busses. I'm a happy owner and user of a number of Busse knives, and I like every single one I've got and intend to keep them. But they are built for very different use, really, and with an entirely different philosophy. Basically, it's like comparing a surgeon's scalpel to a butcher's meat cleaver. Yeah, both are supposed to cut "meat", but there are jobs that you really can't easily do with a meat cleaver that you can do with the scalpel, and obviously, vice versa.

Busses are "hard use" type of blades, designed with the philosophy that you can cut stuff with them, but also do a hell of a lot of other things like chop, pry, bash and generally whack the crap out of things with. Some of them are large enough to be meant to replace an axe (the Battle Mistress comes to mind here :eek: ). Since they're meant to be used for "all kinds of stuff" and the tactical knife philosophy in general requires putting guards on knives, Busses come with guards. The Scandinavian style bushcraft knives, are meant for far finer work than Busses. They're not tools for chopping or such - that's what the axe is for. They're intended to be used for "fine" cutting: for some examples, things like building traps, carving eating utensils and other tools, skinning something you just killed, cleaning fish, some tasks in shelter building and firecraft. The axe is used for larger jobs that require chopping power and toughness. They're tools intended to be used with skill, choosing the right grip for the task. If you're going to stab, support your grip properly by the butt of the knife, so your fingers don't slide - use the palm of your hand or at the very least your thumb. If you're going to be stabbing because you're fighting... well, the saying goes that the knife is used to keep the other guy in check until you can get to your axe, and that's when the fighting really starts - with the axe. :D In all my years of knife use, I've never had one of those almost mystical accidents some folks speak of, where the hand just somehow slides right onto the blade during use. It's a knife - it's supposed to be used with care, not recklessly. Men do as they've been taught to do. If one grows up using knives that don't have guards, there isn't going to be a problem - you'll learn the grips you're meant to use, and you'll find using a knife with a guard even a bit difficult at times since it limits those grips. If one grows up using knives with guards, then it's easy to think that guardless knives are inherently somehow dangerous as if your hand could just slip all on its own onto the blade. It's kind of a cultural thing, I suppose.

I will certainly recommend giving a try to one of these knives. A cheapo Mora will show some of the performance that is there. Quite frankly, a "marketing fad" the bushcraft knife is not. Perhaps the word "bushcraft knife" itself is a fad, it sure sounds like one. But the knives themselves, referring to Scandinavian style knives, certainly aren't a fad. The design is extremely old and proven. It worked then, it works still. :)

I'm sure I read (Maybe in Kochanski's book) that a good mora was tested by hammering it into a tree and standing on the handle to see if it could support your weight.
Anybody else read that somewhere?

Yeah. I really wouldn't recommend doing that with a Mora. Or any knife for that matter. Moras are "tough" as far as Scandinavian knives go, but they're not meant to be extremely tough. Nor should you try to stand on them after one's been hammered to a tree. Sure, sometimes it will take it. And sometimes, it won't, and there's a good chance someone's gonna get hurt.
 
I guess you could pound a mora into a tree and stand on it.
I would not try though. Red handled moras has a stick tang that almost comes out the back. If you hit the knife you will eventually split the handle in two. I know a Mora works as a survival knife, the Swedish Airforce trusted them until 1995 when they got the F1.

I dont get it how Mora knives can be so extremely expensive in the US. In sweden anything over 45 SEK (5,5 USD) for a Mora (or clone) is considered expensive.

One good thing with a Mora knife however is that you dont really know what it can take so it makes you think before you start chopping and spearing stuff.
Yes, a Fallkniven, Busse, Gerber, Bark River etc can take more punishment than a Mora knife, but the risk is that use it for things you shouldnt use it for because it can do it.
A bad example, but still: Two guys are to dig a hole in the ground for some reason. One has a LMF II, Becker, RAT4, S1 type of knife, the other has a puny red handled Mora.
The first guy takes his large "survival knife" and starts to dig with it, the second guy has to make a digging stick because he has a too small knife. Whose knife is still sharp afterwards?

It is the "survival" against "bushcraft" again. For one guy the knife IS the fix-it-all-tool, for the other guy the knife is the tool TO MAKE fix-it-all-tools.

You could parafrase a saying about different manly body parts: big knife - small brain, small knife - big brain. It is not completely right but I meant that people sometimes compensate knowledge with a big knife.

Has anyone done any research in how small knife you can comfortably use.
Does it have to be a 4" fixed which is the common suggestion? Can it be a 3" and work alright anyway? Can you survive "comfortably" with just a 2" fixed knife?

If you want steel to stand on, why dont just bring a bunch of 8" nails that you hammer into the tree.
 
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Why on earth are people standing on knives in trees?? Or worried about it at all??? :confused:

Beats me! :confused:

Has anyone done any research in how small knife you can comfortably use.
Does it have to be a 4" fixed which is the common suggestion? Can it be a 3" and work alright anyway? Can you survive "comfortably" with just a 2" fixed knife?

I will say 3 to 4" is best. 3" works alright. But go much shorter than that, and (some) things will be difficult. Much over 4", and it gets too cumbersome.
 
Why on earth are people standing on knives in trees?? Or worried about it at all??? :confused:

For the same reason that Noss fellow shoots them out of pneumatic cannons at concrete walls. Overdone destructive testing is great fun and often helpful. Then again, sometimes it's just horse-apples. Watch a Cold Steel promo video once, plenty of fertilizer in there. (but a lot of valid stuff too, don't flame me, CS-defenders! :D )

There was a thread a while ago where someone explained that you can support yourself on almost any knife if it's hammered well in and you place all your weight close to the tree. Never done it myself, but I bet it's a hoot getting the thing back out of the tree :eek: Drive in only the tip and balance on the very butt, a huge majority would fail, especially for a 200# man like some of us here.

Personally, I don't chop concrete or climb trees with any of my knives. But some people have come to expect outrageous performance from knives that were never meant for it. Buyers demand it, so makers supply it. Or maybe it's the other way around...

If you want steel to stand on, why dont just bring a bunch of 8" nails that you hammer into the tree.

Amen, brother.

P.S. I'm not a size snob, I use and enjoy everything from a Mora Clipper to a Trailmaster. +1 on what Gossman and Elen said above.



Rupestris said:
I'm not a steel snob as much as a steel slut.
 
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A bad example, but still: Two guys are to dig a hole in the ground for some reason. One has a LMF II, Becker, RAT4, S1 type of knife, the other has a puny red handled Mora.
The first guy takes his large "survival knife" and starts to dig with it, the second guy has to make a digging stick because he has a too small knife. Whose knife is still sharp afterwards?

It is the "survival" against "bushcraft" again. For one guy the knife IS the fix-it-all-tool, for the other guy the knife is the tool TO MAKE fix-it-all-tools.
Or the guy with the big knife makes a digging stick also. It's not that hard to do, you don't need a precision cutting tool or anything...


You could parafrase a saying about different manly body parts: big knife - small brain, small knife - big brain. It is not completely right but I meant that people sometimes compensate knowledge with a big knife.
This is a pretty typical attitude of people who abhor large knives. They're just smarter. Uh huh...


If you want steel to stand on, why dont just bring a bunch of 8" nails that you hammer into the tree.
I've always wondered about this particular test also. Mors Korchanski (sp) advocates this as a test for strength, and does indeed use Moras for it. I've never understood it. Most of the folks around here use Mors for an example as to why you never need more than a Mora, but fail to address this nonsensical test.
 
I don't know if Mors ever actually wanted to perch on the side of a tree. I suspect it's like the ABS tests, meant to show the knife is stronger than it needs to be.

But I think it's a dumb, dangerous test that doesn't tell you much. I reckon it sounds cooler than saying you put it in a vise :rolleyes:

This debate will rage for as long as guys have fun in the woods. Along with carbon vs stainless, 9mm vs. .45, and blonde vs. brunette. Hope I didn't offend anyone.
 
Good luck chopping wood with it.


Ya never know. And the scandi knives ain't gonna do it. I have Busse knives that can hold me, you, and your dog.
It wasn't intended to chop :D
I don't want to chop with it.
Bushcraft not survival.

I see bushcraft as making one's self comfortable in the outdoors.
Not survival orientated at all.
I'll have a hatchet and a pot and a saw.
:D

Why? Why would you need to stand on your knife?
Even without me and the dog :)
Now think about this, if the knife does break, what's coming down the broken end?
Your leg.
Standing on a knife stuck in a tree is just plain silly.
Just because an author mentions in a book doesn't mean it is gospel.*
One must think on their own.


LOL... I own 9 of them.

Good for you.
I'm happy for you, but that doesn't mean that I need or want one.
See?
A hat for every head.
:D

*ETA. Just because something is demonstrated with the "This is stronger than it looks" point of view, doesn't mean that it is a performance requisite.
 
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I dont know anyone who has pounded a knife into a tree, however I have heard of several people who has fallen through frozen lakes and used their knife to get up. Yes, the ice pick thingies around your neck are better, but most people were the older generation who knows the lakes. They never carry the ice pickies but they always carry a knife.
 
I'm sure I read (Maybe in Kochanski's book) that a good mora was tested by hammering it into a tree and standing on the handle to see if it could support your weight.
Anybody else read that somewhere?

This has been tried a few times now by our Brit friends over a britishblades, the tests failed. I don't believe the blades broke, but the handles will fail.
 
A red handled Mora consists of:
Blade with a stick tang that is about one millimeter shorter than the handle.
Wood handle, which is basically a piece of wood with a hole on it.
A metal piece at the bottom of the handle, like a cap. It probably has a fancy name.
A small spring type metal piece that locks the handle on the tang.

The way to assemble a Mora is to place the metal cap on the handle, shove the handle over the tang, place the small metal spring thing on the tang and hammer it down.

When you hammer on the handle, the energy moves from to the blade at two small points where the blade and handle meets. Result, crushed handle, useless knife.
 
Result, crushed handle, useless knife.

Nonsense! You can still use the blade with the tang wrapped in (figure something out) and carve a new handle! :D Assuming of course, you can get the blade out of the tree. :o

Edit: Or, spend more than $15 on your knife, Or, Don't Hammer It Into A Tree... or both.
 
Its a matter of carrying the right tools for the job, and in the wilderness a Busse knife really isn't the right tool. Fillet knives, scandi "bushcrafters", machetes, axes etc. usually are the right tool, and that's why people all over the world carry them and not knives resembling Busses. They might be unbelievably strong, unbreakable or whatever, but they're not wilderness tools.

Of course everyone is allowed they're opinion... but I personally think you're very wrong in that statement. I've used many Busse knives in the woods and they are excellent tools... again... maybe they won't carve a spoon really well but this is not a wilderness survival skill really. It's a wood working skill. In a survival sitaution you probably don't have a can of soup... and if you do... you probably brought a spoon or you can just take it straight from the can. Surviavl is about using the least amount of energy for the most amount of gain Spending two hours carving a pipe is a waste of energy for no gain.
 
It's a wood working skill. In a survival sitaution you probably don't have a can of soup... and if you do... you probably brought a spoon or you can just take it straight from the can. Surviavl is about using the least amount of energy for the most amount of gain Spending two hours carving a pipe is a waste of energy for no gain.

I think that might be where the confusion lies. The Original post was asking about a "Bushcraft" knife. Not a survival knife. Bushcraft can entail wood carving and pipe making.
 
Though I'm admittedly no expert, I can't imagine a scenario in which I'd need a blade to hold my body weight. Not trying to be confrontational, but I am curious.

Say you need a step up to reach... whatever and there's not an easy means to climb.... A blade wedged deeply in a tree can act like the rung of a ladder. Seen it done in rock faces as well... slide your blade between a crack or two rocks and use the handle as a step up. There may also be times when you need to hang something from your knife... a strong blade is handy there too. I'm not saying that this is a task that comes up often enough to be a major concern... but it's nice having a knife that can do it. needing a knife with great lateral strength is a much bigger need for me than the ability to make a spoon... I can tell ya that.
 
I think that might be where the confusion lies. The Original post was asking about a "Bushcraft" knife. Not a survival knife. Bushcraft can entail wood carving and pipe making.


I agree with you... the trouble is that there are also those who are confusing bushcraft as a part of survival skills as well. To suggest that a Busse knife is not a good wilderness knife because it doesn't excel at bushcraft is mind numbingly rediculous.

As I said earlier I was unfamiliar with what Bushcraft really meant. i was under the impression that it was a set of wilderness survival skills... but apparently it isn't it's old school primitave wood working skills... which is great and a wonderful craft. I guess it would go under the wilderness skill portion of this forum. I was mainly more leaning towards the survival.
 
Of course everyone is allowed they're opinion... but I personally think you're very wrong in that statement. I've used many Busse knives in the woods and they are excellent tools... again... maybe they won't carve a spoon really well but this is not a wilderness survival skill really. It's a wood working skill. In a survival sitaution you probably don't have a can of soup... and if you do... you probably brought a spoon or you can just take it straight from the can. Surviavl is about using the least amount of energy for the most amount of gain Spending two hours carving a pipe is a waste of energy for no gain.

Yes, but a Bushcrafter might know how to locate the ingredients for a wilderness stew, and having only his knife (in this little fiction anyway) he could then carve out his spoon...this is ofcourse after he used his knife to make a fire, and then the coals and his knife to make a bowl..also, he made traps that helped to fill the ingredients list in his stew......mostly he used his brain for all these actions...but he needed a good knife. I know that all this was done well before we ever had steel, but a good knife sure does make life easier.
Now, can you do this with a BUSSE...oh yeah, hell yes you can. I think that the gamewarden is one of the coolest and most usefull little blades out there..in the top 100 small knives available IMO. But, having owned a bunch of BUSSEs and a ton of other "bushcraft" blades...I would rather have my Skookum, or perhaps my BRKT Aurora..not that I would feel sorry for myself if all I had was a Gamewarden..but I have just personally had much better luck doing "bushcrafty" things with these other knives. I'll admit, I dont know if there is a major advantage in "cutting" power in the Scandi grind, but I find I have much better and more precise cuts in wood with the scandi.
Honestly, this argument is old news around here..and I dont think it really ever comes to anything...those that prefer a Mora, will STILL prefer a Mora after the dust settles, and vice-a-versa.....
I am a knife enthusiast first...I have small scandi grind knives..and big honkin choppers..machetes, and axes..I even have a couple saws..I like sharp steel...why cant we all just agree that all of us are here to check out knives...arguing about which knife is better is a pointless endeavor. Whatever floats your boat.
 
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