When it's not exactly Made in the USA - Hoback

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Danke42 said:
All the dealers doing this to Jake is the only believable explanation.

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Not really.

He was a known US custom knifemaker. He started making midtechs in his shop. He started making more midtechs.

At this point nobody has any reason to suspect that he has changed his business, especially since he‘s going all in on the God and Country, Bless the USA, Support our Veterans, I’m so religious that I put bible verses on my knives so you know I’m a total stand up guy sort of thing.

Eventually he makes more midtechs. A lot more. People get suspicious. People who know how these things work get suspicious. Until someone get suspicious enough to point a finger.
 
DrFish said:
Not really.

He was a known US custom knifemaker. He started making midtechs in his shop. He started making more midtechs.

At this point nobody has any reason to suspect that he has changed his business, especially since he‘s going all in on the God and Country, Bless the USA, Support our Veterans, I’m so religious that I put bible verses on my knives so you know I’m a total stand up guy sort of thing.

Eventually he makes more midtechs. A lot more. People get suspicious. People who know how these things work get suspicious. Until someone get suspicious enough to point a finger.
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So hold up, are you telling us he deceived the dealers as to the country of origin of his brand?
 
I think there should always be honesty where stuff is made or parts come from. Hobbiests to proffesionals are definitely interested in that info.
If you source parts..but put them together in usa then say it. If you source some parts from usa and some elsewhere say it.
It doesn't have to be on the sales page but that information should be available to those who wish to know
 
I expect a business to partially outsource some of their product nowadays. It’s virtually impossible to do otherwise. By the same token I also expect said business to be honest about it and disclose the fact fully. Especially when for whatever reason people are under the impression the product is 100% USA made and assembled.

You can’t get on a high horse about how moral your business practices are in one sentence, but then in the next say you won’t disclose where the outsourcing takes place or how. To me, that says they do quite a bit of outsourcing and are afraid that if people knew how much, their sales and reputation would take a serious hit. Otherwise, why the the secrecy? Sunlight is a disinfectant. Rarely do people try to keep something they are proud of hidden.

That’s just my take on it. YMMV…
 
Danke42 said:
So hold up, are you telling us he deceived the dealers as to the country of origin of his brand?
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I’m saying his stuff started out made in the USA. He didn’t tell people that he had outsourced to china. He even had models that started their production runs as domestic and transitioned to full import.

I feel like the dealers were initially justified in saying his knives were made in the USA. That’s what he was doing. That was the front he put up, the reputation he cultivated, the premium he asked for. He changed.

How often are dealers supposed to demand to know COO? Yearly? Monthly? Every time the get a shipment?

If you get into a relationship with a person and they tell you they’re sober and always have been and pride themselves on it, how often should you be asking them whether they’ve started hitting the bottle?
 
DrFish said:
I’m saying his stuff started out made in the USA. He didn’t tell people that he had outsourced to china. He even had models that started their production runs as domestic and transitioned to full import.

I feel like the dealers were initially justified in saying his knives were made in the USA. That’s what he was doing. That was the front he put up, the reputation he cultivated, the premium he asked for. He changed.

How often are dealers supposed to demand to know COO? Yearly? Monthly? Every time the get a shipment?

If you get into a relationship with a person and they tell you they’re sober and always have been and pride themselves on it, how often should you be asking them whether they’ve started hitting the bottle?
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Lol danke agrees, it went over your head.
 
JAF1973 said:
I was going to buy Jakes fixed blade Kwaiback as my first upper end knife. I am glad I went with the David Boye Basic 3 instead.
Guys like Jake really tarnish a nice hobby and bring shame to out country. I am glad I changed my mind at the last minute.
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So am I, friend. The number of folks who have been outraged to discover their Hoback is one of the models made in China has been pretty vocal. Over on Reddit, a bunch of Sumo owners are pretty salty about it. Can't blame 'em in the slightest.
 
Pennlu said:
Many people I’m this country are religious and express their enthusiasm for their religion. While this may annoy some, there is no correlation between dishonesty and expressing religious beliefs.
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Right, but you'll notice that SOC_Monke didn't criticize Hoback simply for being religious, he said that someone in a position that has nothing to do with religion leading with religion is offputting and a red flag for nonsense. Which is very accurate to the Hoback situation. It's not an attack on sincerely religious people to point out the red flag of hucksterdom when we recognize them.

A guy who sells knives choosing to reference Bible verses on his product and lead his public apologies not with humility but with an arrogant claim to personally represent God is obviously a huckster and the religious act is what it is. He might even be a very misguided but sincere Christian in his own mind, none of us can really know the truth of that besides Jake, 3D_Anchor or whoever he is. It is undeniable that his public behavior and his tendency to wrap himself in the Bible to deflect criticism is not in keeping with accepted Christian ideals and teachings. It is undeniable that if a man selling high priced goods immediately starts talking about Jesus and his own immensely good character and devout faith when asked about the origin of his inventory, it's not an attack on religious people to point out that only a crook would praise the Lord with his mouth while peeling off the 'Made in China' stickers under the table and waving an American flag in your face.

You guys have to stop being so defensive of your faiths that you feel compelled to continuously claim that calling a snake a snake is actually an assault on the neighboring duck community. When we say Hoback waving a Bible around is a red flag, it's because there's no conceivable reason to act like that unless you're trying to distract people from something they wouldn't appreciate, like that you're robbing their grandma or selling counterfeit 'Made in America' knives. Yes they're counterfeit, because he misrepresented their origin and what they are. You can't pretend a knife is made in your small scale workshop when you ordered it from another manufacturer, only knives he actually made are genuine.

So like his faith, yeah I guess maybe it's genuine, who could possibly know, and what does it matter anyway? It's his weird 'I represent God and it's high time these allegations cease' statements that made these comments relevant. Nobody just found some casual reference to Christianity by him and freaked out, it's literally his first instinct when called to account for committing large scale fraud. It will continue to be relevant until the conversation is about someone who never tried to hide behind worship when caught being a thieving fucko.
 
slyraven said:
I think there should always be honesty where stuff is made or parts come from. Hobbiests to proffesionals are definitely interested in that info.
If you source parts..but put them together in usa then say it. If you source some parts from usa and some elsewhere say it.
It doesn't have to be on the sales page but that information should be available to those who wish to know
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Yep, that's why I've never had any issue with casual designers and even full time makers and smaller companies doing collaborations with certain overseas manufacturers. If they're proud of their product and what they've managed to bring together, they'll act like it. Massdrop had tons of cool stuff and they didn't hide who made what, as a result it was super easy to figure out if the knives were a compelling buy or not. They almost always were, sometimes damn near must buy level.
 
Quiet said:
So am I, friend. The number of folks who have been outraged to discover their Hoback is one of the models made in China has been pretty vocal. Over on Reddit, a bunch of Sumo owners are pretty salty about it. Can't blame 'em in the slightest.
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I would be furious and considering legal options. Sadly, the obvious target for that are the distributors who have been screwed by this jackass as well.
 
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