When it's not exactly Made in the USA - Hoback

[Blues]

 

[King of the Cheese]

You think they would do that when they've almost certainly retained counsel to explore legal options and would do so on an open forum? Remind me not to hire you.

Why would you need reminding? You going to forget you don’t like him?

 

[ScarFoot]

I was going to buy some Hoback stuff this year but not anymore. The brick and mortar shop I frequent carries them in limited numbers and I’ve handled several of them. I almost bought one last year but was a bit concerned that no country of origin was listed anywhere. Anyway I followed this thread for the first 30 pages. At that point it was already a complete dumpster fire. But, I’m going to add to it because I’m bored. Here are my thoughts on the whole deal:

1: The only people I feel sorry for are the customers who bought them thinking they were American made.
2: Shame on Mr. Hoback. He needs to stop talking. His video was ridiculous. He makes things worse every time he opens his mouth and seems to assume we were all born yesterday. At this point I doubt I’ll ever buy one of his knives. He let this go way too far and has lost all credibility. This was all so unnecessary. His knives were top notch and would have sold no matter where they were made.
3: Shame on any vendor who listed country of origin or any other spec without confirming with the maker. Your responsibility is to make sure the info you list is correct to the best of your ability. You didn’t do your due diligence so either by ignorance or laziness you misled your customers. I don’t care if you have to eat a million dollars worth of Hoback knives. YOU COULD HAVE EXPOSED ALL OF THIS A LONG TIME AGO…
4: If you’re a vendor and can prove he lied to you about this, please take legal action or something to try to make things right with the customers.
5: Knife-makers can‘t be expected to police every vendor. The shop I use doesn’t list or sell online. I can’t expect Jake Hoback or any other knife-maker to be standing at the counter making sure everything said about their knives is correct so, why on earth would I expect him to be able to keep the internet straight.
6: Even with #5 in mind, it’s 2022. If you see one vendor misrepresent one of your knives or manufacturing practices you could easily email all the vendors you do business with and let them know what’s going on so they don’t misrepresent too. Also, put a paragraph about it on the homepage of your website immediately.
6: COVER YOUR ASSets. Get things in written/electronic form. This applies to makers and vendors. See #3 again. If a customer can prove the knife was listed as Made in America but the vendor can’t prove where that info came from…that’s a problem.

Alright I’m tired of typing. This is whole mess could have been avoided in so many ways.

 

[Quiet]

It still boggles my mind that these two trolls can't comprehend in the slightest that Jake had years, years to call these 28 dealers and ask that they correct the COO listed on their sites, and he didn't. Full stop, nothing else to say, no more weasel puke vomit contrarian BS, that is the fact. Dude had any number of chances over several years to correct this, and didn't. Jake didn't. Period. This is on him, not the dealers.

 

[Blackfish775]

Because those dealers are *pissed* and if he had really lied to them, I'm 100% sure they would have said so in their first sentence instead of saying that they just assumed the knives were made in the US.

Yes. You're assuming shit. We know.

 

[King of the Cheese]

It still boggles my mind that these two trolls can't comprehend in the slightest that Jake had years, years to call these 28 dealers and ask that they correct the COO listed on their sites, and he didn't. Full stop, nothing else to say, no more weasel puke vomit contrarian BS, that is the fact. Dude had any number of chances over several years to correct this, and didn't. Jake didn't. Period. This is on him, not the dealers.

Sounds like you’re having a hard time dealing with people that don’t share your opinions. 30 isn’t enough? You gotta convert the last two (3D and me) or your outraged? Relax. Not everyone HAS to agree with you. It’ll be okay.

 

[rpstrimple]

I’m starting to wonder if he deleted everything because he has talked to a lawyer and was advised to do so. I’m sure some of these dealers have been on the phone or will be on the phone come Monday about their legal options here.

We aren’t talking about a couple hundred of knives. We are talking about probably tens of thousands of dollars of product that conveniently wasn’t labeled properly. And that’s just current inventory….

 

[shinyedges]

This goes no where, almost everyone who has come to this thread almost unanimously sees the situation exactly for what it is, see these 2 clowns doing their best to troll and lie. There will be no convincing them, they are liars to the bitter end. Some fun was had but it's over. I'll spend the rest of my night doing something else. I'll check back later or tomorrow. Good night reasonable people. Piss off liars.

 

[King of the Cheese]

Yes. You're assuming shit. We know.

Sort of like everyone that assumed the knives were made in China? Or that Hoback was defrauding people out of money intentionally by way of COO deception? In another week or two, you’ll be saying he kicks puppies and trips old ladies walking down the sidewalk.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Sounds like you’re having a hard time dealing with people that don’t share your opinions. 30 isn’t enough? You gotta convert the last two (3D and me) or your outraged? Relax. Not everyone HAS to agree with you. It’ll be okay.

Perhaps we can discuss the subject at hand, Mr. Hoback and his dishonesty, rather than making assumptions about other members.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Sort of like everyone that assumed the knives were made in China? Or that Hoback was defrauding people out of money intentionally by way of COO deception? In another week or two, you’ll be saying he kicks puppies and trips old ladies walking down the sidewalk.

It might help if you came up with some assumptions they made that didn't turn out to be entirely true.

 

[King of the Cheese]

Perhaps we can discuss the subject at hand, Mr. Hoback and his dishonesty, rather than making assumptions about other members.

I’ll follow your lead whenever you and Quiet want to start doing that… but as long as people sling around phrases like “weasel puke vomit contrarian BS”, I’ll just ignore your faux righteous indignation at select member opinions.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

I’m starting to wonder if he deleted everything because he has talked to a lawyer and was advised to do so. I’m sure some of these dealers have been on the phone or will be on the phone come Monday about their legal options here.

We aren’t talking about a couple hundred of knives. We are talking about probably tens of thousands of dollars of product that conveniently wasn’t labeled properly. And that’s just current inventory….

Jordan said about $100,000 in inventory.

As for the lawyer thing, I entirely agree. Someone probably yelled at him that admitting culpability in the face of a potential lawsuit wouldn't be doing himself any favors.

 

[King of the Cheese]

It might help if you came up with some assumptions they made that didn't turn out to be entirely true.

Glad you finally admitted they were in fact “assumptions”. That’s the first step.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

I’ll follow your lead whenever you and Quiet want to start doing that… but as long as people sling around phrases like “weasel puke vomit contrarian BS”, I’ll just ignore your faux righteous indignation at select member opinions.

That's a direct opinion of an argument about the subject at hand. Yours was off topic and had nothing to do with the discussion we're currently having.

 

[King of the Cheese]

Jordan said about $100,000 in inventory.

As for the lawyer thing, I entirely agree. Someone probably yelled at him that admitting culpability in the face of a potential lawsuit wouldn't be doing himself any favors.

It’ll be interesting to see how that dynamic plays out in court with all the mud slinging that occurred here that is open for anyone to read. I wonder how those assumptions and insults will look?

 

[King of the Cheese]

That's a direct opinion of an argument about the subject at hand. Yours was off topic and had nothing to do with the discussion we're currently having.

Oh, so as long as I insult you and add the word “Hoback” in the sentence it’s all good? Lol I do enjoy watching you scramble to cover up Quiet’s blatant personal insults. He’s clearly the hothead in the room.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Glad you finally admitted they were in fact “assumptions”. That’s the first step.

I've never denied those were assumptions. But not all assumptions are created equal. Assuming that someone reluctant to disclose the COO of their products certainly strongly indicates China, as does the cost of labor there. The second requires even less guesswork. If multiple dealers received batched of knives labeled 'Made in China's it's a very short hop to the fact that at least some of them would list those knives as being made in China. The fact that none of them did so is strong evidence suggesting that, despite their origin there, none of them were appropriately labeled when they arrived at dealers.

 

[King of the Cheese]

I've never denied those were assumptions. But not all assumptions are created equal. Assuming that someone reluctant to disclose the COO of their products certainly strongly indicates China, as does the cost of labor there. The second requires even less guesswork. If multiple dealers received batched of knives labeled 'Made in China's it's a very short hop to the fact that at least some of them would list those knives as being made in China. The fact that none of them did so is strong evidence suggesting that, despite their origin there, none of them were appropriately labeled when they arrived at dealers.

A really REALLY long way of saying “I didn’t have a damn clue but you should be convinced that’s okay because I’m typing a lot of words”.

 

[Spey]

Like who?

Many small startups in the knife community were/are doing exact type of outsourcing, while allowing community to believe they are in-house mfr.

Quotes above are reversed order.

RBB2:
A friend owns shop that has done blades and other parts for different USA knife manufacturers for years (actually over a decade now). I am not going to make any disclosure statements and start any sh_t-shows like this thread though. You would however recognize the knife companies I am referring to.

This is common practice in MANY industries. One company I worked for for years (large commercial industrial mfr.) manufactured goods for a number of other supposed manufacturers under what are termed private-label-agreements, aka Private Label Production and Supply Agreement, which almost always includes a Binding Non-Disclosure Clause. In addition to making product for other mfr's, they also had Private Label Agreements with companies that made goods for them/us (so were working both sides of the equation). It gets really juicy when there is a failure where hundreds of thousands of dollars are at state (for a single claim), and you are sitting in meetings discussing liability payments/solutions to the owner who thinks one manufacturer is responsible, then the meetings dividing the fix/solution costs amongst those involved all while not letting on to the owner the reality of the situation (because of those pesky non-disclosure contracts), and getting the owner to use your product on future projects.

The ignorance and vindictiveness displayed in this thread is quite amazing.