When it's not exactly Made in the USA - Hoback

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Here's an excerpt from archive.org's June 29, 2021 capture of Hoback's FAQ. That's around when I bought my Husky, and this statement was the one I read while researching Hoback knives.

Our shop in located in a beautiful, remote part of Idaho! In the manufacture of our knives, we utilize sources based on cost and competitive advantage. For example, the majority of steel comes from Germany and Sweden, titanium comes from Russia, and almost all hardware available in the United States comes from China. We use domestic sources wherever possible, for component parts and to subcontract work like cutting and adding custom finishes.

All knives are QC’d, fitted and shipped directly from our shop in Idaho. We are committed to supplying our customers with a quality product backed by an outstanding warranty and excellent customer service.
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Edited to add: The January 23, 2022 capture (the most recent one) includes the same FAQ statement (typo and all).

Edited again to add: I did some more poking around, and that FAQ statement didn't exist until 2021.
 
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craytab said:
This exactly. Instead, he has not only mislead about what is made where, he has doubled down and righteously refused to name what is made where. That is where you are going to lose most reasonable people.
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By way of example...I wouldn't care if all his materials actually came from his "home state of Minnesota"...there's just some lines you don't cross. We've been down this road here before, unfortunately. In the 20+ years I've been associated with this site, I've seen 'em all come and go.

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Much ado about nothing, IMO. It's a global economy. Pretty much everything has parts made around the world. I suspect that Hoback knives are more "made in the USA" than 95% of other knives, including some of those who do claim to be made in the USA.
 
KenHash said:
Rather than the question of whether Hoback knives qualify as "Made in USA" or not, I find his position that where parts may be sourced from is none of the buyers' business rather disturbing. Especially if he wants the Buyers' money.

About 20 years ago AG Russel issued an explanation to his buyers that because of the rising costs of knife manufacture in the U.S. he was now introducing several models made in China. He explained that a contact in Taiwan he had was able to hook him up with a Yangjian factory. He explained that it was necessary for him to remain viable as a business. It was an honest and sincere answer to the many angry comments that he had received. I don't see that kind of sincerity in Hoback's position.
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This. I found A.G Russell actually through their slipjoint blade shape encyclopedia, which is great, but I started looking through the knives, and not only was country of origin clearly displayed, they explained why. One knife was made specifically for a charity to help some people, I forget who. Because of the nature of needing to help fast, they explained in product description that they had the knives made in China to expedite things. That honesty goes a long way with me, I don't like sneaky, tricky, shady things because, if they will lie about that, what else will they lie about that might make a knife fail?
 
Blues said:
By way of example...I wouldn't care if all his materials actually came from his "home state of Minnesota"...there's just some lines you don't cross. We've been down this road here before, unfortunately. In the 20+ years I've been associated with this site, I've seen 'em all come and go.

ntnbbzlso6081.jpg
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With those prices I wish he did knives!
 
Hashishiin said:
This. I found A.G Russell actually through their slipjoint blade shape encyclopedia, which is great, but I started looking through the knives, and not only was country of origin clearly displayed, they explained why. One knife was made specifically for a charity to help some people, I forget who. Because of the nature of needing to help fast, they explained in product description that they had the knives made in China to expedite things. That honesty goes a long way with me, I don't like sneaky, tricky, shady things because, if they will lie about that, what else will they lie about that might make a knife fail?
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What is he being sneaky about? He never claimed his knives were 100% USA made. What should he be doing? Listing the COA for each screw and washer in his knives?
 
3D Anvil said:
Much ado about nothing, IMO. It's a global economy. Pretty much everything has parts made around the world. I suspect that Hoback knives are more "made in the USA" than 95% of other knives, including some of those who do claim to be made in the USA.
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"Suspecting" is not evidence of anything. In years past, I booted an alleged custom maker from this site for claiming to make his knives in his own shop in the Midwest. (He wasn't the only one, but it was a particularly egregious case...with threats made to boot.)

I did my homework, conducted an investigation, obtained evidence of his deceit, proved the knives were manufactured in China, challenged him with it and then gave him the boot.

I don't convict folks on mere suspicion. Not here, and never in court.
 
3D Anvil said:
What is he being sneaky about? He never claimed his knives were 100% USA made. What should he be doing? Listing the COA for each screw and washer in his knives?
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The weird refusal to tell what country things are made in, and "just look at the knives" just gives me a bad feeling. He definitely benefitted from folks thinking they were more USA-made than they are. Dealers are here on this thread, angry about the way they have been mislead to market Hoback.
It comes off as sneaky to me, compared to other dudes. That was my hot-take opinion, though, so please take it with a grain of salt.

But, uh, to answer you, yes, I would like COA for every part of the knife. G-10, FRN pellets... everything. I wouldn't stop buying Spyderco if I found out they used Chinese screws. I don't not buy from Buck, and I KNOW the pins are probably Chinese. I compare it to, what percentage of my product would I be okay with if it was coming from Nazi Germany? I suppose I would grin and bear a few parts.
 
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3D Anvil said:
What is he being sneaky about? He never claimed his knives were 100% USA made. What should he be doing? Listing the COA for each screw and washer in his knives?
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Refusing to say what parts are made where, or how much of "his" knives he actually makes. The being a dbag to a customer over his crappy design/materials that causes "his" knives to become damaged through opening them is besides the point.

While also implying he "makes" the knives here in the USA.

Transparency is the issue. Same one qtrmstr has.
 
Blues said:
"Suspecting" is not evidence of anything. In years past, I booted an alleged custom maker from this site for claiming to make his knives in his own shop in the Midwest. (He wasn't the only one, but it was a particularly egregious case...with threats made to boot.)

I did my homework, conducted an investigation, obtained evidence of his deceit, proved the knives were manufactured in China, challenged him with it and then gave him the boot.

I don't convict folks on mere suspicion. Not here, and never in court.
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I get that, but Hoback has never claimed his knives were 100% USA made, AFAIK. The one Hoback I own doesn't list a COA anywhere. Not on the knife, the box, or any of the docs in the box. I just don't see where anyone has been deceived, except perhaps by their own assumptions.
 
3D Anvil said:
I get that, but Hoback has never claimed his knives were 100% USA made, AFAIK. The one Hoback I own doesn't list a COA anywhere. Not on the knife, the box, or any of the docs in the box. I just don't see where anyone has been deceived, except perhaps by their own assumptions.
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This is more a customer relations failure, not deception. Folks can say what they like, but failing to disclose something isn’t the same as lying. You can be mad about both, but they are not the same thing.
 
Paratrooper06 said:
This is more a customer relations failure, not deception. Folks can say what they like, but failing to disclose something isn’t the same as lying. You can be mad about both, but they are not the same thing.
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It's an odd choice, that's for sure. But I doubt it hurts his business. Any potential customer who won't buy from him because he won't say where his knives are made, or where particular parts are sourced from ... also isn't going to buy from him if he says, "the handles for the Hoback Schmoback knife were sourced from China."
 
This could be easily quelled by simply saying what he out sources, but instead it's a secret. If someone claims to actually "make" knives, it should be an easy answer on what part you don't make. For all we know he assembles them. Doesn't even make them.
 
3D Anvil said:
It's an odd choice, that's for sure. But I doubt it hurts his business. Any potential customer who won't buy from him because he won't say where his knives are made, or where particular parts are sourced from ... also isn't going to buy from him if he says, "the handles for the Hoback Schmoback knife were sourced from China."
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Dealers dropping his knives sure does hurt his business. 2 dealers said as much in this thread and blade hq I believe is doing the same.
 
Well this is going to be a decision point for purchase for some people… and sadly I think Hoback does something lots of makers do, he just is suddenly getting more focus than the others because of his attitude, and I’d be lying if I said that some distributors didn’t jumped on this because the tide was against Hoback and it could be good PR.

I have no skin in the game since I don’t own any of his knives.. but technically he hasn’t lied or deceived anyone, and no one is “entitled” to know where each part of the knife is made. Maybe it’s his competitive advantage.. maybe he just thinks it’s none of our business… maybe both. But if he wants to say buy his screws from Vietnam, or have his packaging made in China, or his titanium made in India, he doesn’t have to tell us.

Regulatory-wise, the FTC could discern whether 51% of his parts are made in the US.. and that COULD be the one sticking point.. but good luck getting them to care with all the manufacturers they have to deal with today.
 
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