When it's not exactly Made in the USA - Hoback

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Made in America is often overrated IMO anyway. Look at me, made in Irving, Texas. 43 years old the body is falling apart, has had replacement parts (not under warranty) and constant maintenance required.

To be more serious, this is a very subjective situation. An M390 Spyderco PM2 gets the Golden, Colorado stamp but the blade is made by Bohler-Uddeholm, an Austrian company. Very few companies do everything in house, or can guaranty 100% U.S. parts.

For example, I primarily wear shoes from San Antonio shoemakers, because they are American, I have size 14 EE feet, and they are damn comfortable. The manufacture and assemble just about everything in Texas, including having their own leather tannery. You can actually take a factory tour. Despite all of this, I highly doubt the polyurethane and rubber for the midsoles and outsoles, the non leather textiles are 100% US sourced.

I think that the goal is for supporting U.S. citizens have jobs, but there are many things that are either unavailable or too expensive to be US sourced. I'm fine with "assembled" if the product is quality. To be honest, if its a quality product, where its made is not that much of a concern.

I've never liked Hoback knives, but this isn't a huge deal to me personally. I own knives made here, China, Taiwan, Italy, Japan, etc.
 
There is even a legal definition: "A lie of omission is an intentional failure to tell the truth in a situation requiring disclosure. An example could be a seller's failure to note a known defect on a real estate disclosure form." I guess you could argue about whether or not the situation requires disclosure, but a lie by omission is considered a lie in laymen's terms as well.
 
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It's funny that you see people loving on Hinderer because ... Made in the USA ... with M390 stamped in bold letters on many of their blades. That's Bohler M390 -- made in Germany. 20cv is a virtually identical steel made in the USA. To be fair, Hinderer seems to have switched to 20cv in recent years.
 
3D Anvil said:
It's funny that you see people loving on Hinderer because ... Made in the USA ... with M390 stamped in bold letters on many of their blades. That's Bohler M390 -- made in Germany. 20cv is a virtually identical steel made in the USA. To be fair, Hinderer seems to have switched to 20cv in recent years.
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Jesus, the issue is he won't say what parts of the knife are made elsewhere. No one cares if uddeholm steel is used.
 
3D Anvil said:
It's funny that you see people loving on Hinderer because ... Made in the USA ... with M390 stamped in bold letters on many of their blades. That's Bohler M390 -- made in Germany. 20cv is a virtually identical steel made in the USA. To be fair, Hinderer seems to have switched to 20cv in recent years.
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Medford doesn't seem to have this problem.
 
aji1 said:
There is even a legal definition: "A lie of omission is an intentional failure to tell the truth in a situation requiring disclosure. An example could be a seller's failure to note a known defect on a real estate disclosure form." I guess you could argue about whether or not the situation requires disclosure, but a lie by omission is considered a lie in laymen's terms as well.
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This is word salad. Not disclosing COO for parts isn’t “hiding a defect”. Apples vs. oranges.
 
I'm watching his latest IG Reel now. Kinda sounds like more of the same..

EDIT: He took it down and it's just posted to stories now.
 
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Paratrooper06 said:
This is word salad. Not disclosing COO for parts isn’t “hiding a defect”. Apples vs. oranges.
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"Lying by omission, also known as a continuing misrepresentation or quote mining, occurs when an important fact is left out in order to foster a misconception. Lying by omission includes the failure to correct pre-existing misconceptions. For example, when the seller of a car declares it has been serviced regularly, but does not mention that a fault was reported during the last service, the seller lies by omission. It may be compared to dissimulation. An omission is when a person tells most of the truth, but leaves out a few key facts that therefore, completely obscures the truth." Better?
 
3D Anvil said:
So we care about where parts are manufactured, but not about where materials are sourced from. Okay....
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I think you're being intentionally obtuse.

Here's what I'm getting from reading the posts above regarding knives of this ilk:

People care about being told the truth when they inquire.

People care about not being deceived by weasel worded implications that imply that something is other than it is.

People don't seem to care about the country of origin of the steel, or even some parts...screws, nuts, bushings etc. But they still care about getting an honest, direct answer.

People do care that the knife is built in the shop purported to have been used by the maker, by the maker himself, or one of his employees. (Which should also be disclosed if requested.)

People do care that the knife is actually built by the maker, and not simply assembled from a kit obtained overseas.

I don't think it's too much to ask. But then I'm used to dealing with folks that can look me in the eye if I ask a question. If they can't, I won't deal with them, nor will I recommend them to anyone else.

If this is confusing, it shouldn't be.
 
Blues said:
I think you're being intentionally obtuse.

Here's what I'm getting from reading the posts above regarding knives of this ilk:

People care about being told the truth when they inquire.

People care about not being deceived by weasel worded implications that imply that something is other than it is.

People don't seem to care about the country of origin of the steel, or even some parts...screws, nuts, bushings etc. But they still care about getting an honest, direct answer.

People do care that the knife is built in the shop purported to have been used by the maker, by the maker himself, or one of his employees. (Which should also be disclosed if requested.)

People do care that the knife is actually built by the maker, and not simply assembled from a kit obtained overseas.

I don't think it's too much to ask. But then I'm used to dealing with folks that can look me in the eye if I ask a question. If they can't, I won't deal with them, nor will I recommend them to anyone else.

If this is confusing, it shouldn't be.
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Thank you. Everything in this post is spot on.
 
aji1 said:
"Lying by omission, also known as a continuing misrepresentation or quote mining, occurs when an important fact is left out in order to foster a misconception. Lying by omission includes the failure to correct pre-existing misconceptions. For example, when the seller of a car declares it has been serviced regularly, but does not mention that a fault was reported during the last service, the seller lies by omission. It may be compared to dissimulation. An omission is when a person tells most of the truth, but leaves out a few key facts that therefore, completely obscures the truth." Better?
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The onus is on you to prove that he lied by omission, and to meet all said elements.. not me to prove he didn’t.

I do hope you hold EVERY manufacturer to that standard.. and aren’t just singling out Hoback because he’s the flavor of the day here.

I’m more disappointed in the marketing aspect, but I find no serious ethical concerns… at least none that would make him an anomaly among other manufacturers (aside from his attitude).
 
Blues said:
I think you're being intentionally obtuse.

Here's what I'm getting from reading the posts above regarding knives of this ilk:

People care about being told the truth when they inquire.

People care about not being deceived by weasel worded implications that imply that something is other than it is.

People don't seem to care about the country of origin of the steel, or even some parts...screws, nuts, bushings etc. But they still care about getting an honest, direct answer.

People do care that the knife is built in the shop purported to have been used by the maker, by the maker himself, or one of his employees. (Which should also be disclosed if requested.)

People do care that the knife is actually built by the maker, and not simply assembled from a kit obtained overseas.

I don't think it's too much to ask. But then I'm used to dealing with folks that can look me in the eye if I ask a question. If they can't, I won't deal with them, nor will I recommend them to anyone else.

If this is confusing, it shouldn't be.
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Bingo. We just want transparency and not to be told, "We don't say where things are made, here is what we offer." When for years we've been led to believe and it's been marketed as "Made in USA".
 
Yeah, I remember the TBritton and Kizer ordeal, they were few threads here, trying to figure it out at the time…
 
3D Anvil said:
It's funny that you see people loving on Hinderer because ... Made in the USA ... with M390 stamped in bold letters on many of their blades. That's Bohler M390 -- made in Germany. 20cv is a virtually identical steel made in the USA. To be fair, Hinderer seems to have switched to 20cv in recent years.
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1) Austria not Germany
2) Hinderer still uses M390 for DLT exclusives, among others

Carry on.
 
John_B said:
You're risking being haunted by John Browning ghost if you use a 1911 made outside of America!

Some things just have to be 100 percent America, I mean Old Glory, 1911s and Cowboy stuff.
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I’d prefer my 1911 to be 100% USA made, but I’ll take high quality forgings from a reputable manufacturer in Brazil over chinesium stuff any day of the week.
https://flic.kr/p/2mQyi9i
 
Blues said:
I think you're being intentionally obtuse.

Here's what I'm getting from reading the posts above regarding knives of this ilk:

People care about being told the truth when they inquire.

People care about not being deceived by weasel worded implications that imply that something is other than it is.

People don't seem to care about the country of origin of the steel, or even some parts...screws, nuts, bushings etc. But they still care about getting an honest, direct answer.

People do care that the knife is built in the shop purported to have been used by the maker, by the maker himself, or one of his employees. (Which should also be disclosed if requested.)

People do care that the knife is actually built by the maker, and not simply assembled from a kit obtained overseas.

I don't think it's too much to ask. But then I'm used to dealing with folks that can look me in the eye if I ask a question. If they can't, I won't deal with them, nor will I recommend them to anyone else.

If this is confusing, it shouldn't be.
Click to expand...
I don't want to be accused of sassing a moderator, so I'll just leave it that.
 
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