Who keeps a 'hawk by their beds. Anyone?

How often do we hear of home owners being prosecuted and doing hard time?
The laws are only there to show that justice is not one sided and all bases are covered, use of lethal force, namely. they want to see people using restraint, not shooting to kill on sight. Killing somebody, even the lowest scum that breaks into your house, is "a hell of a thing, you take everything he has and everything hes ever gonna have." to quote clint.
I have done some things in my life i am not exactly proud of but I would like to go to the grave never having ended another human life.
 
The nice thing about grabbing a gun to deal with a home intruder is that it gives you the best chance to avoid hurting anyone. That anyone is most likely just a young street punk who doesn't want to hurt you or anyone else, just wants your TV. Or maybe its the neighbor's boy who got a little drunk and came over to see your daughter, with her permission. With blades, you don't have the luxury to sort out his motives and capabilities. And if the bad guy is reallly dangerous, he may have a gun, and then you are in the position of bringing a tomahawk to a gun fight.

Obviously, you have to have access to a gun and you have to know how to use it in a high-stress situation. And obviously, Chuck Norris or a Kung Fu master may make a different choice, but a handgun is as close to an ideal weapon we have in close quarters when our lives or the lives of our family are in jeapordy.
 
Once I get a house, I'm gonna get motion sensored lights, burglar alarms on all of the windows, a guard dog, a silent alarm that automatically calls the police when I press it, a tomahawk under my bed, a secret gun vault, and a stungun.
 
Liam Ryan said:
How often do we hear of home owners being prosecuted and doing hard time?
The laws are only there to show that justice is not one sided and all bases are covered, use of lethal force, namely. they want to see people using restraint, not shooting to kill on sight. Killing somebody, even the lowest scum that breaks into your house, is "a hell of a thing, you take everything he has and everything hes ever gonna have." to quote clint.
I have done some things in my life i am not exactly proud of but I would like to go to the grave never having ended another human life.
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No, they want to see people not using guns. I don't know about you, but I want justice to be one-sided, I want it to be on the victim's / homeowner's side. Safety of someone in the act of an invasive and quite possibly violent crime should be the gov. and judicial system's last concern as well as your's. Do you actually think that someone breaking into your home gives a flying crap about you? I would also like to not have to kill anyone, ever. But if I need to, I will. Let the circumstances dictate your actions. It does not matter how often we hear of homeowners doing "hard time" - the possibility of them doing any time is a fundamental flaw in our legal system.

Sorry for the ot post, but I couldn't let that go. Let's get back to hawks.
 
motion sensored lights, burglar alarms on all of the windows, a guard dog, a silent alarm that automatically calls the police when I press it, a tomahawk under my bed, a secret gun vault, and a stungun.
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Not to thread drift here. Lights sound great, dog is good so long as you actually like having a dog in general. Not sure on the "calls the police" alarm; wouldn't there be a much faster response to a 10-second 911 call?

"Secret gun vault?" How about a quick-access safe behind your headboard or under the nightstand, with a 9mm and two mags? And of course, a quality flashlight on the nightstand.

'Hawk by the bed? I think we've all said our part on that. I still submit that a firearm has 10 advantages to every disadvantage it has over a 'hawk. So far as "not looking bad in court", I bet even money that a jury would think you're a lunatic for using an axe rather than a gun.

Stun gun? I seriously think those are a bad idea for citizens. Cops can use them because of the unique gray areas cops encounter. You don't have gray areas, you're either in immediate physical peril or you're not. If someone's coming after you to harm you, you shoot him. If he's breaks into your house and sits on the couch reading the New York Times, you don't use a stun gun (and possibly stop his heart), you just call 911 and sit on the stairs and wait.

Hey, I like sharp pointy things too, but there is a reason that guns were considered an upgrade 500 years ago.

-MV
 
yea, i agree with everyones posts somewhat. but an upgrade? youre not taking their doctrine into consideration. why did we switch from full length service rifles to carbines in the army. different doctrine. nobody sits there, and deliberately trys to make 300m shots with an M16A2 anymore. why? cuz we dont fight at those distances anymore. the "good enough" at 250m M4 carbines we use now, are much much better in our current scenarios now. back when the red coats and the blue coats used to line up at about 500m and start walking and shootin, till they all dropped is over. back then, ANY projectile throwing weapon, gave you more stand off distance than a hawk, bow, or cav/inf. sabre. but, they werent ALWAYS an upgrade. try usin that 60" single shot muzzle loader in room clearing. youd get hawked up senseless by a moccasin footed indian lol. in a house, sure, a pistol would be really nice, but not THAT much more nicer than a small sharp hand weapon. with the lights out. the difference in efficiency between the two, would be just enough to be made up, by really good training. or hammering about 10-15,000 nails a day by roofing or framing lol.

I guess all im trying to convey is, is that it is possible, to successfully integrate a tomahawk into ones home defense plan, if well thought out. there.
 
MatthewVanitas said:
Not sure on the "calls the police" alarm; wouldn't there be a much faster response to a 10-second 911 call? -MV
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I silent alarm instantly tells the police where you are and is completely silent. The police arrive with there sirens off so the bad guy doesn't here them comming. It would be for a different situation than calling 911. Plus, the kids could use it if they were in danger.
 
well ill tell ya what (not that i have anything better in mind lol) but, 'the police come up with their sirens off, so as to not give their positions away' deal, dont really hold much weight with me, when i consistantly see on cops, 3 professionally trained officers, armed with everything from batons, to flashlights, to mace, to stun guns and real guns, wrestle with spindly little white guys with no shirts and no teeth, and not be able to get him down, to huge fat, overweight guys, and not even get him down with night clubs.. or when they pull their guns on someone that has a gun or a knife, and then yell at em 435 times to 'stop or ill shoot' but then never shoot, like a bitch.... i dont have very much trust in these fellows anymore. what are they gonna do, come in my house with their guns drawn and yell? 'stop.. please? i beg you to stop.. orrrrrr.... ill say it again!" naw. im good, thank you. ill just do what i gotta do without em. ill call em AFTER the situations already been handled.

By the time the "cavalry" has arrived, 18 people would have already gotten shot, or taken hostage. theyre not going to do anything anyways.. Granted, i know they WANT to, but the liberal laws tie their hands behind their backs....SO, that leaves it up to us. unfortunately. :(
 
NDallyn said:
Don't worry! By the time I get all the locks undone and load up, I'll already have a cup of coffee brewed so me and the dumb bugger breaking into my house can sit down and discuss things peacefully (again, Canada). In case you didn't get it, I was being sarcastic in my last post. The truth is that I envy some of the self-defence freedoms that you guys south of the border enjoy. After all, I live in Canada, arguably the most criminal-friendly nation in the world. If someone breaks into my house and my dog bites him, I'm subject to civil and quite possibly criminal liability. If I injure someone in self-defence, I'm subject to the same thing again. If I point a loaded firearm, I'm right screwed. If I shoot someone, I'm standing in front of a judge no matter what the circumstances are. So welcome to Canada, where the criminals know you're unarmed, and the Gov. will stand up for their rights if by some slim chance you are. By the way, a 24oz. framing hammer will do a ton of damage (I used to be in fence construction) but the shank on those Eastwings will destroy fingers if you're not careful. I was serious about making myself a hawk though. I love the two 870's I have here at home, but the hoops I have to jump through to keep them legally stored and owned makes them useless for anything other than hunting and range use. I remember an article in either Blade or KI about a maker using ball-pein hammers to forge out hawks (can't remember his name though). It'd be interesting to see if I could do the same with a 30-32oz. eastwing. Claw-hawk anyone?
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Dallyan, you rposts were funny!!! (canada, again) hahahaa:D

I really hate your nations laws. And the socialism BS is rediculous. I feel sorry for you guys. If i lived in Canada, I think I would be a criminal or home invader, i get the first shot right? then if you are a bad sht and "wound" me (after telling me you intend to shoot me - wtf???) then I get sue YOU! :) YAY!!!!



:jerkit: what a load of horse _____ !!!!!!you seriously need to move south bro!:grumpy:
 
Liam Ryan said:
How often do we hear of home owners being prosecuted and doing hard time?
The laws are only there to show that justice is not one sided and all bases are covered, use of lethal force, namely. they want to see people using restraint, not shooting to kill on sight. Killing somebody, even the lowest scum that breaks into your house, is "a hell of a thing, you take everything he has and everything hes ever gonna have." to quote clint.
I have done some things in my life i am not exactly proud of but I would like to go to the grave never having ended another human life.
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For me its a matter of honor. If you have the nuts to come into my home and violate my space, take what belongs to me or harm those I love, damn straight you're gonna feel my wrath. I know that most see honor as a thing of the past, but you guys in the military will agree, that when it comes to it, it better them than me, and even my countries laws be damned! I'm not a liberal or a conservative, and I believe in equal rights for all, but when you walk into my house you just entered the united states of Bradley.

And as far as hawk or gun, I say hawk. Throwing it, not an option. Waiting quietly for someone to get close enough, pretty freakin hard to do under adrenaline, but shooting at someone in the middle of the night and contributing to the danger my loved ones are in, not happening. I prefer the level of control I have with my hawk. It never leaves my hand, and is light enough that if they start to move, I can adjust. I love this country and I appreciate that I'm innocent till proven guilty, and I don't want to kill anyone, and I don't want to go to jail, but I would rather be locked up and know my family is safe, than be free and them be dead. I'm only 25, I'm young and probably more than a bit cocky, but I stand by my opinion, and I don't see it changing in the near future.

Bradley
 
I agree with Bradley. My home is mine period, if someone invades my private kingdom, they may just leave in a body bag.
A hawk VTAC is very handy and a 12 guage coach gun for back up !!
 
yea, i agree with bradley 100%. though, were pretty much guilty until proven innocent here lol. its the truth too. when they want an answer from you, and the one you give isnt good enough for them, thats reason enough right there to prosecute you. it sucks but, i seen it happen quite a lot of times.. i guess theres nothing we can do....for now....
and you think, under adrenaline, that its hard to wait for someone to get close enough to touch? Ya never know man. On the planet, the human is the most calculating mind around. I think you may be suprised at what youll do under fire/duress, to get your job accomplished. Ive seen some really young privates with under 12 months in service, do some pretty courageous things under duress... Ya never know. If its between your family and him, i think youll do what you gotta do. If not, I think the results of not doing anything, would just scare you into acting...at that point, you may not rationally choose the most strategic course of action, but i think youll get somethin done though lol. Like the schools in the military will teach you, "its better to at least have a fucked up plan, and know how to put it in action, than none at all.." To act swiftly, is always better than to not act at all.
 
NDallyn said:
I tend to agree with twindog. If you're close enough to use a hawk or blade, you're already in a very bad situation, especially since you don't know the physical/mental condition of the intruder. And if you're thinking of throwing that blade or axe, what happens when you miss or fail to hit properly? You've just lost your best defence. Proper throwing takes practice and concentration. I don't know about you boys, but I ain't exactly the most mentally acute when I'm woken up at 2am. I keep an 870 beside the closet at night (stored legally, in accordance with socialist Canadian law) but I also keep a couple fixed blades beside the bed and around the house in case I don't have time to unlock my firearm, unlock my ammo (which must legally be stored in a separate, secure container), load, identify my intent, and give the intruder the chance to shoot first (welcome to Canada). Come to think of it, maybe I should make myself a decent hawk.
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Yup, yup, yup. But they have me by the short hairs partner. About 25 years ago I was the manager of a business that was robbed a few times. I decided to put a little Louisville Slugger close at hand so the staff would feel safer. The cops saw it and one commented that they were basicly cool with it but DO NOT HIT A SCUZ BAG ON THE HEAD. Body shots anywere, but no head hits because if I killed the POS I would possibly get a manslaughter charge. That lesson has stayed with me all my life. The main legal philosophy behind our law is : You can use equal force to defend yourself. Meaning, if hes trying to beat the crap out of me, I can do the same to him. If hes trying to swat me with something, I can do the same to him. I CANNOT however have a fist fight end then run up behind him and plant a hawk in his shit head because Im still pumped and pissed. Is it instinctive to protect our homes and families with possibly lethal methods, of course it is. The problem here is that ethical, moral issues heavily influence our law, whether right or wrong. I understand both sides of this lethal force issue in Canada, so, I have to use my head and find a reasonably realistic compromise that wont leave me screwed when all is said and done. The goal may be to have a less violent society and to avoid a shoot first ask questions later scenario but.....the joke is that a criminal doesnt give a s..t about any of these legal, ethical, moral issues, so no, it isnt fair up here. There is a reasonable amount of discretion used by the police in violent acts of self defence, but that only goes so far. The next level is were the trouble lies, prosecutors, lawyers etc. Yes the whole thing is suck ass, but I have to play the game appropriate to what I can get away with in my community or location and what the local threat will likely be. I did have a hawk beside me in the north, down here though everything is different.
 
its very hard.. i agree. even cops have to watch how they handle potentially deadly threats. it sucks. the law will bite ya in the ass.
 
I CANNOT however have a fist fight end then run up behind him and plant a hawk in his shit head because Im still pumped and pissed.
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Umm, you can't do that in the USA either. Generally speaking, once you're out of direct physical danger, you can't use lethal force on someone.

Texas has a few odd exceptions for property under some circumstances (though I wouldn't depend on that), and most states allow some exceptions if you're preventing someone fleeing a heinous crime (he just murdered someone and you shoot him to prevent him from running off to murder more people)

If someone attacks you in the U.S., even Texas, you fight him off, and then chase after and stab/hack/shoot him to death, you're going up for Murder. Once he stops being the aggressor, anything you do starts a new scenario with _you_ as the aggressor.

-MV
 
Liam, you are way off the map. "Dont shoot to kill???" I dont know where you are getting your firearms and shooting knowledge but let me break it to you.. YOU ARE WRONG. When I took the Tennessee State Handgun Carry Permit class, the officer teaching it stated and I quote, "If you ever pull your firearm, you use it. Your drawn handgun is not meant to be used as a means of fear. And IF you shoot, you shoot to kill." Shooting to injure is mindless. God forbid ANY of us ever have to use a firearm to end someone's life but the fact is, shooting to injure is flawed practice.


Dusty, a 12 gauge as a back up to a hawk? I think you got it reversed borther. ;)
 
In Britain a home owner has a legal "duty of care" to a would be burglar:eek:
Things such as broken glass and embedded barbed wire on wall tops are illegal so that poor Jonny Criminal doesn't hurt himself nicking your stuff.
If your interested look up "Tony Martin" the last high profile self defence (sort of) case. By pre-meditating a plan he ended up in prison. The guy he shot (who survived) got a state disability benefit!
 
Yup, in the 'trash can" next to my bed resides a hand forged hawk. I figger I can get to it before a gun.
WWSD
What would Shingas do
 
I keep my 'Nam Hawk in the driver's side door pocket of my car. I refer to it as my ice-scraper to anyone who asks.
 
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