Why don't people keep their Hinderer knives?

[mquez]

Me. I would just take them off

Ken44,

Its not that easy, when your in or around a burning building. Its so damn hot there is no way you can take any peace of gear off. Im not a firefighter my self but have lots of buddy's who are. I do however know how hot situations can get. We had a mass pile of pallets and we had a controlled burn. You could not get near the pile to add more pallets it was so damn hot. I then put some gear on and boy let me tell you, it works quite well and the gloves are super thick! I can see ware a weak detent can come into play!

 

[Ken44]

Ken44,

Its not that easy, when your in or around a burning building. Its so damn hot there is no way you can take any peace of gear off. Im not a firefighter my self but have lots of buddy's who are. I do however know how hot situations can get. We had a mass pile of pallets and we had a controlled burn. You could not get near the pile to add more pallets it was so damn hot. I then put some gear on and boy let me tell you, it works quite well and the gloves are super thick! I can see ware a weak detent can come into play!

Did you not notice the part where I said "Me"
I'm not a fireman.

What if you have on heavy gloves? The flipper and the studs might not be easily accessible that way.

Me. I would just take them off




As I said in my previous post, the detent was just right on the one I tried in a pass around.

 

[MostMenAreRuthless]

Question to anyone with knowledge of the design/intended purpose:

do the 3" XM-18's have the same deployment method design? The one I once owned would open easily via flipper or thumbstuds, but would not open via the "SOS" or inertia method as described above.

Also, I have not read any discussion of the later Gen XM-18's or the XM-24's having this same "weak" detent, it seems exclusive to the Gen3 models. I am not an RHK aficionado so I could be incorrect, but it would be good to know in case another XM-18 is in my future.

 

[mquez]

Did you not notice the part where I said "Me"
I'm not a fireman.

Sorry, I took it the wrong way. Also just kinda wanted to share my story lol. Back on topic, I also agree that they have made lots of Hinderers more then any other year and this could be the leading factor in seeing more for sale then usual, that and blade is around the corner!

 

[alwayscarryaknife]

Question to anyone with knowledge of the design/intended purpose:

do the 3" XM-18's have the same deployment method design? The one I once owned would open easily via flipper or thumbstuds, but would not open via the "SOS" or inertia method as described above.

Also, I have not read any discussion of the later Gen XM-18's or the XM-24's having this same "weak" detent, it seems exclusive to the Gen3 models. I am not an RHK aficionado so I could be incorrect, but it would be good to know in case another XM-18 is in my future.

I only have the 3.5 but I could see where the 3 wouldn't deploy the same since the blade is lighter. So if the ball detent was the same it wouldn't have the same leverage.

 

[bld522]

Right. I don't own a Hinderer so I can't speak directly to the issue. The only thing I can do is point to Rob's statement that XMs are designed to let gravity overcome inertia. This is the very definition of a gravity knife.

I don't know which is worse, a knife that's NOT designed to allow gravity to overcome inertia but does or a knife that IS designed to allow gravity to overcome inertia but doesn't. Call me paranoid, but I've got better things to do with my time and my money than defend a criminal proceeding. So I'm going to avoid both of them.

 

[Ajack60]

Question to anyone with knowledge of the design/intended purpose:

do the 3" XM-18's have the same deployment method design? The one I once owned would open easily via flipper or thumbstuds, but would not open via the "SOS" or inertia method as described above.

Also, I have not read any discussion of the later Gen XM-18's or the XM-24's having this same "weak" detent, it seems exclusive to the Gen3 models. I am not an RHK aficionado so I could be incorrect, but it would be good to know in case another XM-18 is in my future.

I'm not a Hinderer fanboy either, the 3 Gen 4's I have all have piss poor detent and they don't flip out like a ZT560, you have to use a little wrist action for it to deploy. I can understand how the combo of the two methods would work good for someone wearing gloves. Being left handed, the blade is carried tip down, left pocket so its pretty much secure.

 

[MostMenAreRuthless]

I'm not a Hinderer fanboy either, the 3 Gen 4's I have all have piss poor detent and they don't flip out like a ZT560, you have to use a little wrist action for it to deploy. I can understand how the combo of the two methods would work good for someone wearing gloves. Being left handed, the blade is carried tip down, left pocket so its pretty much secure.

Thanks for the input.

It sounds like all the XM-18 3.5"ers have the 3 deployment methods (flipper/thumb lug/SOS). I think I will avoid those as I would prefer a non-SOS deployment.

Hopefully someone with experience with XM-24's and 3" XM-18's will chime in on their detent experiences.

Someday, I would like to be on the other side of the coin from this thread title and have an XM-18 that will be a keeper! I probably should have kept my 3" model as it was a great example and did not have the SOS deployment--hindsight is always 20/20!

 

[DrFish]

Right. I don't own a Hinderer so I can't speak directly to the issue. The only thing I can do is point to Rob's statement that XMs are designed to let gravity overcome inertia. This is the very definition of a gravity knife.

I don't know which is worse, a knife that's NOT designed to allow gravity to overcome inertia but does or a knife that IS designed to allow gravity to overcome inertia but doesn't. Call me paranoid, but I've got better things to do with my time and my money than defend a criminal proceeding. So I'm going to avoid both of them.

Gravity overcoming inertia? What? I know what you're getting at but I don't think that means what you think it means.

 

[bld522]

Nope. I meant inertia all right. What do you think it means?

 

[DrFish]

Nope. I meant inertia all right. What do you think it means?

So what do you mean by a knife that allows gravity to overcome inertia? Are you referring to the detent being weak enough to allow an inertial opening? What does that have to do with gravity?

 

[bld522]

Are you referring to the detent being weak enough to allow an inertial opening? What does that have to do with gravity?

Inertia is defined in two parts. One of those parts is that a body at rest tends to remain at rest. If a force is applied that causes a body at rest to go into motion, that force is said to have overcome inertia. In this case, gravity is the force. The weakness of the detent doesn't cause the blade to go into motion. It's the force of gravity that does. The detent is simply too weak to prevent it from happening.

 

[gpo1956]

Thanks for the input.

It sounds like all the XM-18 3.5"ers have the 3 deployment methods (flipper/thumb lug/SOS). I think I will avoid those as I would prefer a non-SOS deployment.

Hopefully someone with experience with XM-24's and 3" XM-18's will chime in on their detent experiences.

Someday, I would like to be on the other side of the coin from this thread title and have an XM-18 that will be a keeper! I probably should have kept my 3" model as it was a great example and did not have the SOS deployment--hindsight is always 20/20!

You'd better be looking for XM24s. The 3" XM18s are even more absurdly priced than the 3.5".

 

[DrFish]

Inertia is defined in two parts. One of those parts is that a body at rest tends to remain at rest. If a force is applied that causes a body at rest to go into motion, that force is said to have overcome inertia. In this case, gravity is the force. The weakness of the detent doesn't cause the blade to go into motion. It's the force of gravity that does. The detent is simply too weak to prevent it from happening.

So you're saying that the detent is SO weak, that when you simply hold the knife horizontal, the force of gravity pulls the blade open without any shaking or movement of the hand at all? That would be the force of gravity overcoming inertia. That has not been the case with any of the Hinderers I've handled.

If you're talking about an inertial style opening, shaking the knife open, etc, then gravity has nothing to do with it.

 

[MostMenAreRuthless]

You'd better be looking for XM24s. The 3" XM18s are even more absurdly priced than the 3.5".

Yes, I am aware of the pricing, but that's not my number one concern. The basis of my concern is found in the physics lesson being discussed by Mr. bld522 and Mr. DrFish. I want to know if the 3" and the 24 has the same SOS deployment method as the 3.5" models.

 

[stabman]

If you're talking about an inertial style opening, shaking the knife open, etc, then gravity has nothing to do with it.

But a lot of places still define that as a "gravity knife."

I'd have to tighten the pivot so it wouldn't be able to be opened by inertia very easily.

 

[bld522]

So you're saying that the detent is SO weak, that when you simply hold the knife horizontal, the force of gravity pulls the blade open without any shaking or movement of the hand at all? That would be the force of gravity overcoming inertia. That has not been the case with any of the Hinderers I've handled.

If you're talking about an inertial style opening, shaking the knife open, etc, then gravity has nothing to do with it.

I'd say it has something to do with it. Turn the knife upside down and try to shake the blade out of it. I think you'll see what I'm talking about. More importantly, is that something you'd really like to have argument over with a police officer? If you would, good luck.

 

[DrFish]

But a lot of places still define that as a "gravity knife."

I'd have to tighten the pivot so it wouldn't be able to be opened by inertia very easily.

That says maybe, but it still isn't gravity overcoming inertia. In a true "gravity knife" the blade is released by a catch and literally drops into place by the force of gravity. That's gravity overcoming inertia.

What you're talking about with the hinderer detent is the detent being weak enough that you can do an inertial opening. In that case the inertia of the blade as knife is moved and then suddenly stopped overcomes the detent, opening the blade. The INERTIA overcomes the DETENT. Not gravity overcoming inertia.

 

[DrFish]

I'd say it has something to do with it. Turn the knife upside down and try to shake the blade out of it. I think you'll see what I'm talking about. More importantly, is that something you'd really like to have argument over with a police officer? If you would, good luck.

Shake. Inertia is overcoming the detent. Not gravity overcoming inertia. YES, that defines it as a gravity knife in most jurisdictions. I still wouldn't say that "Gravity overcomes inertia" in this case. It's nonsensical.

 

[stabman]

That says maybe, but it still isn't gravity overcoming inertia. In a true "gravity knife" the blade is released by a catch and literally drops into place by the force of gravity. That's gravity overcoming inertia.

What you're talking about with the hinderer detent is the detent being weak enough that you can do an inertial opening. In that case the inertia of the blade as knife is moved and then suddenly stopped overcomes the detent, opening the blade. The INERTIA overcomes the DETENT. Not gravity overcoming inertia.

Absolutely technically speaking correct.
The law is phrased with the non-correct way of things though, so I have to deal with that issue.
When I get enough cash to order a Hinderer, that is...which might take a while.