Why don't people keep their Hinderer knives?

I wonder if the new zt 562 will hamper hinderer sales or make their secondary price fall a bit ?
 
Why does this topic come up as often as it does? It always follows the same arguments, reasoning and bitterness. For christ's sake they are just knives. Is someone's soul so empty because they can't afford an XM? With so many other options out there one would think that it would be a non issue. Mr. Hinderer has a policy and even though some have taken advantage of it it does not appear he will be changing it any time soon. Some people just need to move on....
 
I'm an LEO that flipped mine. That was the whole reason I bought such an expensive knife for duty use. if I didn't like it I could sell it. I made 70 bucks on it. I didn't make it rich on that one knife. Honestly, the headache and cost, shipping and insurance, of buying it and then selling it, to me, are worth that 70 bucks. That's about 3 hours worth of work, give or take. I didn't rob the guy I sold it to, and all things considered, like drive time to the post office, wait time in the post office, time emailing Rob and Rick trying to get them to fix a ridiculously and dangerously weak detent, BF subscription costs, listing it on other sites, taking photos, emailing interested buyers, etc etc, I probably lost money on the deal.

Anyway, had they fixed the detent, I would still probably have it. They refused, so I sold it. I won't buy another just to flip it. They lost a customer in the exact field they market to because they produce a knife that CANNOT be carried on duty because the detent is so weak. It doesn't help when Rob Orlando responds with a dickish attitude and Rick doesn't stop it. I'm happy buying from makers that stand behind their products. KAI is a good example, and of course there are more. KAI just really did me right so I felt it was worth mentioning them specifically.

(Truth be told, I didn't think the knife was all that spectacular anyway, detent issues aside.) An 0560 is worth every cent they charge. I really didn't see anything about the XM18 I had that made it worth double the price of the 0560. That's just my opinion. I felt that way as soon as I opened the box and held and inspected it right out of the box. Has nothing to do with me feeling burned. Me stating my opinion does, though.)
 
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bld522 said:
I agree with you completely, Todd. The fact that Rick doesn't exert pressure on his channel to keep retail prices in line with his suggested list prices isn't just unethical, it could be interpreted as disrespectful to those of us who pay the wages of the Mil/LEO/EMS. Without the ordinary, hard-working, American taxpayer, those folks wouldn't even exist.
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:rolleyes: As one of your friendly gov. tax leaches myself I never get tired of hearing statements like this! You mad bro?!
 
Nic S. said:
:rolleyes: As one of your friendly gov. tax leaches myself I never get tired of hearing statements like this! You mad bro?!
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Right? I always get enjoyment out of the fact that some folks seem to forget a very important fact: a business can enact any policy it wants. If it only wants to sell goods to women, then oops, dudes are SOL. If Hinderer wants to market his products to public servants such as LE/Firefighters/EMS, then guess what? He has that right!!! Don't like it, then don't do business with that company!

Unethical? Nothing Hinderer is doing is unethical, sorry. Disrespectful? Then voice your displeasure the only objective way possible: don't buy Hinderer products. About all you can do.
 
Straight shooter said:
Why does this topic come up as often as it does? It always follows the same arguments, reasoning and bitterness. For christ's sake they are just knives. Is someone's soul so empty because they can't afford an XM? With so many other options out there one would think that it would be a non issue. Mr. Hinderer has a policy and even though some have taken advantage of it it does not appear he will be changing it any time soon. Some people just need to move on....
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I concur... this is what I sense.... bitterness....
 
Quiet said:
Right? I always get enjoyment out of the fact that some folks seem to forget a very important fact: a business can enact any policy it wants. If it only wants to sell goods to women, then oops, dudes are SOL. If Hinderer wants to market his products to public servants such as LE/Firefighters/EMS, then guess what? He has that right!!! Don't like it, then don't do business with that company!

Unethical? Nothing Hinderer is doing is unethical, sorry. Disrespectful? Then voice your displeasure the only objective way possible: don't buy Hinderer products. About all you can do.
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I love how people think us public servants are rolling in the dough and when ever there is a perk to what we do they are quick to pull the, I pay your salary card.
 
Nic S. said:
I love how people think us public servants are rolling in the dough and when ever there is a perk to what we do they are quick to pull the, I pay your salary card.
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As someone who knows several law enforcement officers, and two fire fighters personally, I can confirm this absolutely.

The fact is, I understand that serving the public in those capacities is similar to positions in education or the Military. You do something significantly important for Society as a whole for very middle of the road (or low, depending on the area of the country) pay. Insane. But damned if we could function without you folks.
 
I find these scarcity arguments kind of odd. They come up whenever a manufacturer, for whatever reason, is not able to keep up with demand.

I could almost buy the "keeping production numbers low so they can keep demand high" argument if it wasn't for the simple fact that they don't make money off of the secondary market. They don't. They make money by SELLING KNIVES. Not on the secondary market, but at their wholesale price. They make a bit more when they sell them direct, a bit less when they sell at wholesale to a distributor. The more knives they make and sell, the more profit they make.

The price being high on the secondary market is all well and good, but it doesn't help them directly. If demand is crazy high and the secondary market prices spike, it STILL doesn't help them, because they are constrained by their production speed. If they are selling knives as fast as they can make them, and all indications are that this is the case, then they are effectively demand insensitive. It doesn't matter how BADLY people want to buy the knives and what they will pay for them on the secondary market, the company profit is limited by how many knives they can physically produce in a year x the unit profit per knife at wholesale or direct pricing.

They only way for them to make more money is to either raise their prices until the reduced demand due to the price increase approximates their production, or make more knives, or some combination of the two.

The recent increased availability of the XM18 production variants on the market strongly suggests that they have been spending the last year investing in production capacity and are getting more knives to market.

Yes, it's frustrating when you can't get a maker's knives and they're getting flipped at crazy prices. You have to realize though, that other than the bump in reputation, the halo effect on other models in the makers line, etc., this doesn't help the maker's bottom line directly. If Rick Hinderer sells 100 XM18's at $385 to a bunch of people and they turn around and sell them at a profit, he hasn't made an extra dime, assuming that his knives are in such demand that those knives would have sold anyway.
 
Had two XM's for several wks; sold them. Nothing special, although certainly heavy-duty capable...and the 3.5's detent (lack of) was almost silly. I could not carry it "safely." So I go back to my CRK's at 1/2 the price of a Hinderer and much finer quality of production...plus fabulous customer service. It's all personal opinion, of course. Some folks like Fords, and others like a Chevy.
 
bodog said:
I'm an LEO that flipped mine. That was the whole reason I bought such an expensive knife for duty use. if I didn't like it I could sell it. I made 70 bucks on it. I didn't make it rich on that one knife. Honestly, the headache and cost, shipping and insurance, of buying it and then selling it, to me, are worth that 70 bucks. That's about 3 hours worth of work, give or take. I didn't rob the guy I sold it to, and all things considered, like drive time to the post office, wait time in the post office, time emailing Rob and Rick trying to get them to fix a ridiculously and dangerously weak detent, BF subscription costs, listing it on other sites, taking photos, emailing interested buyers, etc etc, I probably lost money on the deal.

Anyway, had they fixed the detent, I would still probably have it. They refused, so I sold it. I won't buy another just to flip it. They lost a customer in the exact field they market to because they produce a knife that CANNOT be carried on duty because the detent is so weak. It doesn't help when Rob Orlando responds with a dickish attitude and Rick doesn't stop it. I'm happy buying from makers that stand behind their products. KAI is a good example, and of course there are more. KAI just really did me right so I felt it was worth mentioning them specifically.

(Truth be told, I didn't think the knife was all that spectacular anyway, detent issues aside.) An 0560 is worth every cent they charge. I really didn't see anything about the XM18 I had that made it worth double the price of the 0560. That's just my opinion. I felt that way as soon as I opened the box and held and inspected it right out of the box. Has nothing to do with me feeling burned. Me stating my opinion does, though.)
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I have to admit, the company's attitude (on here at least) put me off, also.
 
I think that the direct sales to the people that serve our communities and country very well deserve it.
 
Voodew said:
It seems like every time I check the exchange, there is always a different Hinderer knife up for sale. Why does it seem like nobody keeps their Hinderer knives?

I mean no disrespect to anybody that owns one, but I've never had one in my hand. Is it just all the hype that leads people to buying these knives and then once they receive them they figure out that they are not all that they are talked up to be? What's the deal?
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Get to the shows and try your luck. If not, they are going for $550 on the forums. Not bad at all figuring the cost it takes to get to a show. At least for me, I have to take off days from work to attend.
Rob and Rick have always been great with me and my family.
I sell mine when I have 2 of the same kind. I pick which has the best action, and sell the one I least like.
I only need one spanto, one slicer, and one wharnie.
I regret selling my customs, but they were sold to fund custom 1911 addictions
 
kwazyjuice said:
I think that the direct sales to the people that serve our communities and country very well deserve it.
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I also appreciate the service of our men and women in uniform of any flavor--they definitely provide an invaluable service; however, let's not forget that they also get paid and in a lot of cases they get paid very well. As an example, in my home county appx 50% of any LEO has an income of not quite double the mean income for that county. That means they out-earn many tradesmen, laborer, retailer, etc. Don't get me wrong, they certainly earn their keep by putting themselves between me and the bad guy, but too often we term their employment as a "service," when in reality it is a well-paid occupation that they choose for themselves.

That being said, I don't favor nor oppose RHK policies on who they sell knives too. And quite frankly, they don't really care what our opinions are anyway!
 
I really don't understand why everyone feels the need to trash Hinderer.

He makes a knife. A very good one. He sells it at a very reasonable price.
It is so good, in fact, that other companies make Hinderer inspired/designed knives.

No one is forcing you to buy them. The secondary market prices are what they are because that is what people will pay. Again no one is forcing you or anyone else to buy them and RHK has nothing to do with any of it.

But let me say one thing....if I were ever in a situation where I had to depend on my knife for survival....the knife above all others I would want in my pocket would be a Hinderer.

It is not even CLOSE to the most expensive knife out there....it is not nearly the flashiest....it is just a solidly built, easily serviced, completely dependable workhorse that I personally think looks amazing and feels very comfortable to carry and use.

If you don't think it's worth the money.....that's fine....buy something else....there are many choices available.....but don't trash Hinderers.....they are, without a doubt, excellent knives.
 
MostMenAreRuthless said:
however, let's not forget that they also get paid and in a lot of cases they get paid very well.
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When I was in, I knew more than one family (Service member, wife, child) on food stamps while the Marine was overseas. At the time, the US poverty line was $18310 for a family of 3. That Marine's salary, about $22000 plus a small bump for hazardous duty pay. As you can see he was rolling in money.
 
Silvanus said:
When I was in, I knew more than one family (Service member, wife, child) on food stamps while the Marine was overseas. At the time, the US poverty line was $18310 for a family of 3. That Marine's salary, about $22000 plus a small bump for hazardous duty pay. As you can see he was rolling in money.
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Thanks for your service in the military--I sincerely appreciate it my brother.

Specifically, I was referring to LEO's and more specifically, LEO's in my home county. I wouldn't dare make assumptions about military or other states salaries as I don't have access to their salary information.

Back to the topic at hand--I don't see much trashing of Hinderer knives in this thread. Their have been legitimate and documented issues with weak detents in some of the gens of the 3.5" XM-18 and some dissension on his sales policies, but otherwise not much trashing going on. The bottom line for me is that I wish I could buy another 3" for the LEO pricing, but alas I cannot. He makes a great product at a great price for those who can buy direct.
 
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