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Work Sharp (belt grinder) Knife Sharpener
- Thread starter UnknownVT
- Start date
Well if it works on that. It will work on my Kershaw. Thanks.
AFAustin
Gold Member
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- Jun 8, 2004
- Messages
- 2,488
I think you'll enjoy it. I've just had mine a few days and it's been fun. The big, cheap, kitchen "practice" knives, I've done well with---I never expected to see them with a semi-polished convex edge and sharp. I keep reminding my wife to be careful with them in their "born again" state.
Smaller knives are trickier, at least for a beginner like me. In spite of trying to heed all the cautions here, I've rounded a couple of points and taken off too much steel a couple of times. There's just not as much margin of error on the smaller blades. But with a little more practice, a lighter touch, and erring on the side of the finer grits, I intend to get better with them as well.
Andrew
Smaller knives are trickier, at least for a beginner like me. In spite of trying to heed all the cautions here, I've rounded a couple of points and taken off too much steel a couple of times. There's just not as much margin of error on the smaller blades. But with a little more practice, a lighter touch, and erring on the side of the finer grits, I intend to get better with them as well.
Andrew
AFAustin
Gold Member
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- Jun 8, 2004
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- 2,488
Well, if it makes you feel any better, I was able to do a pretty good job restoring the point on one of them. As someone said before, the same power that caused the rounding can be used to accomplish a fix, if you have a little skill (or maybe luck in my case!).
Andrew
Andrew
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- Jul 22, 2009
- Messages
- 11,409
Again, find some cheap knives to practice on. I can also recommend a Mora Flex for practice. I bought a couple for $16 a piece and it makes a great paring knife. Once you know what causes the tip to get rounded off(either by dragging the tip off the edge of the belt or by lifting the handle too much), you can avoid it in the future.
AFAustin
Gold Member
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- Jun 8, 2004
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- 2,488
Small world. My middle initial is "J".
The WS is a very impressive little machine, and I believe you will like it. There are several threads here and elsewhere (including reviews at epinions and Amazon) that have good advice. Just use a real light touch with the tips, and don't sit still in the "beginning" position, or you'll have a recurve you weren't intending.
Andrew
The WS is a very impressive little machine, and I believe you will like it. There are several threads here and elsewhere (including reviews at epinions and Amazon) that have good advice. Just use a real light touch with the tips, and don't sit still in the "beginning" position, or you'll have a recurve you weren't intending.
Andrew
Thanks Andrew.
Great advice Andrew. I sent them an email and was contacted today. I'm terribly sorry but I can't recall the lady's name, as I was babysitting my three year old granddaughter. All I wanted to tell you guys is to take Andrews advice and call (or write) them. They will work with you.
Romo
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2011
- Messages
- 71
Ordering one this week...
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2011
- Messages
- 3,006
An update on my Work Sharp experience:
I got a new 2-sided stop, and black and green compound, last weekend. I intended to reprofile and strop my M4 Manix2 and INFI WarDog. Things didn't go quite as planned:
The War Dog is nearly a 1/4 inch thick (.235.) It nicely fills the entire width of the 20 degree "kitchen" angle guide. Fortunately, it is still able to touch edge to belt. I made three passes per side with each and every belt I now own: P80, 220, 80MX, 150MX, 180MX, 360MX, 800MX, 6000, and 1200MX. I think this configuration left me somewhere tighter than 20 degrees per side, but I really can't say for sure. It also polished the edge quite nicely.
Sadly, there was a plastic burr on the (normally unused) inner edge of the guide. Left a nice (hammon line?) scratch along both sides of the blade - but worse on the logo side.
I also flattened the tip slightly, from pulling up on the handle too much at the end of a couple passes.
But boy would it cut!
I contacted an expert, who explained how to remove the scratches. They aren't quite gone, but are darn near enough for a user.
Also, the method I used (blade flat down on oiled sandpaper - 220, 400, 800, 1500, 2500 - over leather, followed by stropping on black and green) on this full-convex blade left the blade satin finished, but the edge highly polished and Wicked Sharp! (use any adjective or example you like - I can push-cut newsprint, and hair just flies off my arm.) So much so, that I decided not to go back in with the "outdoor" guide to give it a longer-lasting secondary bevel. Loving it and leaving it.
Since I had such good luck with the sandpaper-over-leather, and strop, on the convex INFI, I tried it on the FFG M4 (at a very low angle, but not flat down.) It seems to have worked even better.
I tried it on my S30V BM940, and just rounded the edge. So I went back to the WorkSharp on that, with a couple passes on 220 and 6000, and it's again as good as it's ever been.
So, in a nutshell, I love the WSKTS. I will use it to reprofile when it's warranted, and to restore damaged or painfully dulled edges. And to keep my non-Super-Steel knives hair-shaving and tomato-slicing sharp.
As stated by the manufacturer, it is not the be-all end-all for the perfect edges that sharpening enthusiasts crave, but for getting any blade shaving sharp, I haven't found anything quicker or more consistent.
But do take your time, practice on a few blades you don't worry about too much, and be careful regarding heat buildup, grinding away too much material, rounding tips, or leaving scratches.
Happy sharpening!
- Tom
I got a new 2-sided stop, and black and green compound, last weekend. I intended to reprofile and strop my M4 Manix2 and INFI WarDog. Things didn't go quite as planned:
The War Dog is nearly a 1/4 inch thick (.235.) It nicely fills the entire width of the 20 degree "kitchen" angle guide. Fortunately, it is still able to touch edge to belt. I made three passes per side with each and every belt I now own: P80, 220, 80MX, 150MX, 180MX, 360MX, 800MX, 6000, and 1200MX. I think this configuration left me somewhere tighter than 20 degrees per side, but I really can't say for sure. It also polished the edge quite nicely.
Sadly, there was a plastic burr on the (normally unused) inner edge of the guide. Left a nice (hammon line?) scratch along both sides of the blade - but worse on the logo side.
I also flattened the tip slightly, from pulling up on the handle too much at the end of a couple passes.
But boy would it cut!
I contacted an expert, who explained how to remove the scratches. They aren't quite gone, but are darn near enough for a user.
Also, the method I used (blade flat down on oiled sandpaper - 220, 400, 800, 1500, 2500 - over leather, followed by stropping on black and green) on this full-convex blade left the blade satin finished, but the edge highly polished and Wicked Sharp! (use any adjective or example you like - I can push-cut newsprint, and hair just flies off my arm.) So much so, that I decided not to go back in with the "outdoor" guide to give it a longer-lasting secondary bevel. Loving it and leaving it.
Since I had such good luck with the sandpaper-over-leather, and strop, on the convex INFI, I tried it on the FFG M4 (at a very low angle, but not flat down.) It seems to have worked even better.
I tried it on my S30V BM940, and just rounded the edge. So I went back to the WorkSharp on that, with a couple passes on 220 and 6000, and it's again as good as it's ever been.
So, in a nutshell, I love the WSKTS. I will use it to reprofile when it's warranted, and to restore damaged or painfully dulled edges. And to keep my non-Super-Steel knives hair-shaving and tomato-slicing sharp.
As stated by the manufacturer, it is not the be-all end-all for the perfect edges that sharpening enthusiasts crave, but for getting any blade shaving sharp, I haven't found anything quicker or more consistent.
But do take your time, practice on a few blades you don't worry about too much, and be careful regarding heat buildup, grinding away too much material, rounding tips, or leaving scratches.
Happy sharpening!
- Tom
AFAustin
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2004
- Messages
- 2,488
Tom,
Glad you had good luck with the WS. I want to make sure I understand, though. Did you do a full grit progression with the WS, and then follow it with a full grit progression with sandpaper? Also, can you explain more about the "oiled" sandpaper?
Thanks,
Andrew
Glad you had good luck with the WS. I want to make sure I understand, though. Did you do a full grit progression with the WS, and then follow it with a full grit progression with sandpaper? Also, can you explain more about the "oiled" sandpaper?
Thanks,
Andrew
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2011
- Messages
- 3,006
Andrew,
I did a full grit progression on both, starting with the WS (3 passes each, just to reprofile), following (several days later) with sandpaper (progressively increasing the number of passes), and concluding on loaded strops. For sharpness, I don't know that the sandpaper was necessary, but I didn't strop prior to this step, so I can't do a fair comparison.
I haven't hit the plain strop yet - I keep it in the house, and was doing all the work in my garage workshop.
As far as oiling the sandpaper, this is the first time I tried it. The experienced metalworker I spoke with regarding restoration of the satin finish/removal of the scratches recommended a light lubricating oil on the sandpaper for that purpose - that's the only reason I tried it. Since it was handy, I just put a couple drops of food-safe mineral oil on a 3x8 sheet of each paper, and spread it around with my finger. I made sure to thoroughly wipe the blade between grits, and before stropping.
Also, since the purpose was to restore the finish, I didn't move in my usual heel-to-tip arc, but went straight back and forth, spine-to-edge-and-back, during the sandpaper steps, and spine-to-edge for stropping. But on the M4 Manix2, I did heel-to-tip on the sandpaper, and tip-to-heel on the strops, so I don't think that made a world of difference.
On the other knives I've retouched since the micro-mesh came in, which would already make a rough-cut slice in printer paper, I just did a 180MX, 360MX, 800MX, 6000, 1200MX progression on the WS. They don't exhibit quite the same level of scary-sharpness, but are near-polished, will push-cut the printer paper, and have no trouble dealing with anything I'm likely to cut with them. They are also more "normal" steels - most have been Solingen-steel kitchen knives.
Sorry if I went a little beyond the info you wanted - hopefully what you need is there.
Regards,
- Tom
I did a full grit progression on both, starting with the WS (3 passes each, just to reprofile), following (several days later) with sandpaper (progressively increasing the number of passes), and concluding on loaded strops. For sharpness, I don't know that the sandpaper was necessary, but I didn't strop prior to this step, so I can't do a fair comparison.
I haven't hit the plain strop yet - I keep it in the house, and was doing all the work in my garage workshop.
As far as oiling the sandpaper, this is the first time I tried it. The experienced metalworker I spoke with regarding restoration of the satin finish/removal of the scratches recommended a light lubricating oil on the sandpaper for that purpose - that's the only reason I tried it. Since it was handy, I just put a couple drops of food-safe mineral oil on a 3x8 sheet of each paper, and spread it around with my finger. I made sure to thoroughly wipe the blade between grits, and before stropping.
Also, since the purpose was to restore the finish, I didn't move in my usual heel-to-tip arc, but went straight back and forth, spine-to-edge-and-back, during the sandpaper steps, and spine-to-edge for stropping. But on the M4 Manix2, I did heel-to-tip on the sandpaper, and tip-to-heel on the strops, so I don't think that made a world of difference.
On the other knives I've retouched since the micro-mesh came in, which would already make a rough-cut slice in printer paper, I just did a 180MX, 360MX, 800MX, 6000, 1200MX progression on the WS. They don't exhibit quite the same level of scary-sharpness, but are near-polished, will push-cut the printer paper, and have no trouble dealing with anything I'm likely to cut with them. They are also more "normal" steels - most have been Solingen-steel kitchen knives.
Sorry if I went a little beyond the info you wanted - hopefully what you need is there.
Regards,
- Tom
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2006
- Messages
- 413
My ongoing recommendation is that after you get the initial hang of it with the guide, to remove the guide and try it freehand. Much better control.
If you set it up so that the guide has the knife straight up and down, all you have to do is remove the guide and pass along the belt with the knife vertical. You can change the angle by propping up the feet and continuing to hold the knife vertical. A lot of the smartphones nowadays have angle apps to measure the angle of the belt so it is pretty easy to dial in the angle. You have much better control of the pressure on the belt and how much you are working on the tip. Watch some Youtube videos of knifemakers sharpening blades on belts and you'll see that at the tip you have to lift the handle a little and angle a little away from the belt to maintain the bevel at the tip. Try it without the belt not running and you might get a better feel for the motion. I also like to have the belt running into the edge rather than down over it so I just flip the knife around and run it both sides on the side running "up". Good Luck.
If you set it up so that the guide has the knife straight up and down, all you have to do is remove the guide and pass along the belt with the knife vertical. You can change the angle by propping up the feet and continuing to hold the knife vertical. A lot of the smartphones nowadays have angle apps to measure the angle of the belt so it is pretty easy to dial in the angle. You have much better control of the pressure on the belt and how much you are working on the tip. Watch some Youtube videos of knifemakers sharpening blades on belts and you'll see that at the tip you have to lift the handle a little and angle a little away from the belt to maintain the bevel at the tip. Try it without the belt not running and you might get a better feel for the motion. I also like to have the belt running into the edge rather than down over it so I just flip the knife around and run it both sides on the side running "up". Good Luck.
AFAustin
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2004
- Messages
- 2,488
Ben,
Thanks for the advice. I also am beginning to see the advantages of freehand as far as better visual and better control, especially on the tip. I hadn't realized that at the tip you should not only lift the handle but also move the butt outward a little.
Why do you prefer to have the edge run into the belt? Also, as for flipping the knife, do you mean that on the second pass, you are actually holding it in a hammer type grip from the far side of the sharpener, with the blade pointed back towards you, or.....?
Andrew
Thanks for the advice. I also am beginning to see the advantages of freehand as far as better visual and better control, especially on the tip. I hadn't realized that at the tip you should not only lift the handle but also move the butt outward a little.
Why do you prefer to have the edge run into the belt? Also, as for flipping the knife, do you mean that on the second pass, you are actually holding it in a hammer type grip from the far side of the sharpener, with the blade pointed back towards you, or.....?
Andrew
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2006
- Messages
- 413
As far as the "run the belt into the edge" I get subjectively sharper edges. Also if you think about stones, almost every technique is edge running into the abrasive. Stropping is the main edge-trailing technique.
By flipping the knife I mean that I have the handle in my right hand and pass from left-to-right and then turn in around and have the handle in my left hand and pass it from right-to-left. On the same side of the belt of course.
Hope it helps and post back with your thoughts. I don't think there is a definitive technique so the more ideas traded the better. On all types of sharpeners.
By flipping the knife I mean that I have the handle in my right hand and pass from left-to-right and then turn in around and have the handle in my left hand and pass it from right-to-left. On the same side of the belt of course.
Hope it helps and post back with your thoughts. I don't think there is a definitive technique so the more ideas traded the better. On all types of sharpeners.
I think I really need to jump in here with all the avocation for doing it freehand.
Freehand is laudable/praiseworthy - and shows a great degree of skill -
but the Work Sharp is designed for virtually foolproof convex edge sharpening -
not necessarily for those whose skills are beyond reproach......
Let me pose these two simple questions:
1) can we agree that handmade/custom knife makers probably have a lot more skill than anyone who has posted on the many Work Sharp threads?
I am not too sure that any custom knife maker of repute actually makes their knives freehand.
So are we really elevating ourselves with just a few weeks' worth of Work Sharp experience
to a skill level that's higher than custom knife makers?
2) freehand probably can be accomplished much easier and better with a wider belt and an open belt grinder
- places like Harbor Freight (and others) have plain belt grinders for as low as $30 - some even with variable speeds
- so why even bother with the Work Sharp if doing freehand?
As for grinding off the tip:
A light touch is the key - with or without the guide one can see how far the blade is pulled through - slow down when nearing the tip, and stop once the tip is fully on the belt (ie: stop when the blade tip reaches the position shown in diagram below) -
do NOT under any circumstances press or push the blade or exert any pressure into the belt.
Yes, one should try to keep the edge perpendicular to the belt at all times - this means when reaching the belly and eventually the tip the blade should be lifted at the back so that the "sight picture" (for want of a better term) should look kind of like the drawing above.
A light touch (no exerted pressure) and care toward the tip moving the blade so that it presents the edge perpendicular to the belt - will help remove any danger of grinding off the tip.
Bonus question:
3) if some are still having trouble/danger of grinding off the tip -
advising going freehand at that skill level?
Lastly I use the guide mostly as a visual guide and reassurance that I am keeping the blade at more or less the same spot.
That's why I continue to use "training wheels"
--
Vincent
http://picasaweb.com/UnknownVincent?showall=true
http://UnknownVincent.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.multiply.com/photos
Freehand is laudable/praiseworthy - and shows a great degree of skill -
but the Work Sharp is designed for virtually foolproof convex edge sharpening -
not necessarily for those whose skills are beyond reproach......
Let me pose these two simple questions:
1) can we agree that handmade/custom knife makers probably have a lot more skill than anyone who has posted on the many Work Sharp threads?
I am not too sure that any custom knife maker of repute actually makes their knives freehand.
So are we really elevating ourselves with just a few weeks' worth of Work Sharp experience
to a skill level that's higher than custom knife makers?
2) freehand probably can be accomplished much easier and better with a wider belt and an open belt grinder
- places like Harbor Freight (and others) have plain belt grinders for as low as $30 - some even with variable speeds
- so why even bother with the Work Sharp if doing freehand?
As for grinding off the tip:
A light touch is the key - with or without the guide one can see how far the blade is pulled through - slow down when nearing the tip, and stop once the tip is fully on the belt (ie: stop when the blade tip reaches the position shown in diagram below) -
do NOT under any circumstances press or push the blade or exert any pressure into the belt.
Yes, one should try to keep the edge perpendicular to the belt at all times - this means when reaching the belly and eventually the tip the blade should be lifted at the back so that the "sight picture" (for want of a better term) should look kind of like the drawing above.
A light touch (no exerted pressure) and care toward the tip moving the blade so that it presents the edge perpendicular to the belt - will help remove any danger of grinding off the tip.
Bonus question:
3) if some are still having trouble/danger of grinding off the tip -
advising going freehand at that skill level?
Lastly I use the guide mostly as a visual guide and reassurance that I am keeping the blade at more or less the same spot.
That's why I continue to use "training wheels"
--
Vincent
http://picasaweb.com/UnknownVincent?showall=true
http://UnknownVincent.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.multiply.com/photos
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