You can't do THAT with a ZT...

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bodog said:
"most knife tasks don't stress the lock..."

So by that logic, some do. And those circumstances are where a lock is beneficial. And if having a lock is beneficial, I'm sure you'd probably want it to work like it's supposed to. The problem is that those circumstances are really not that prevalent so locks aren't always tested. And since locks aren't always tested in the real world, people devise tests for the lock. And here we are. Some people don't ever need a lock and cry about people saying a lock should work. That causes people to say things "well then why have a lock at all" and the cycle continues. What it comes down to is if the knife has a lock, it should work. If it doesn't, then it should be returned and repaired or replaced. If it happens quite a bit, then there's a problem with manufacturing. Knife nuts should stick together and demand the best quality possible, not defend the companies doing it. They're a company and do what their customers demand if they want to stay in business. As long as they have a base of people that defend inconsistent locking mechanisms, then it will continue. If they have a customer base demand that they fix the problem, then it will be fixed. There's no personal vendetta or agenda or anything like that. People who want to care about ZT and want to like ZT want ZT to fix the issue. Some others go so overboard that they're OK even with all the video proof showing the failures.
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I don't disagree, but the number of people doing the testing is miniscule compared to the number of knives sold. I absolutely want the strongest, most reliable lock (that doesn't totally compromise ease of use) that I can get, but I also accept the fact that the sample size for lock tests just sucks. Edge retention is the flip side, you generally see a much stronger consensus on edge retention in different steels, models and geometry not because we have that much more access to really great testing, but because most people that buy knives will cut various media and get at least some feel for how it holds an edge. Basically, the resting isn't necessarily better, but the sample size is much, much larger.

Don't get me wrong, I shy away from locks I view as subpar, but I also accept that my conclusions on that may be deeply flawed due to the small sample size and lack of relevant data.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
You keep quoting me, but your responses have had nothing to do with my statements. It's great that you've had good experiences with your ZTs. However, your statement that it's fantastic has even less impact than a video or pictures of testing as we're now just supposed to take your word for it. Part of the problem with these discussions is that people have very different standards of evidence for things that make them feel good and things that make them feel bad. If we want to acutally evaluate knives instead of taking stands on emotion consistency is very important.
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Oh, well I quoted you because you asked: "Got anything besides random ad hominem? " and " Doesn't change the fact that videos like the OP posted (which is an impressive showing by a ZT) are all we have to go on"

The videos of "what you have to go on" are either not of this world (like the Cold Steel whack Videos) or, like this post, sort of anecdotal. The fact is there have really only been, from what I have seen, a couple of cases of real lock failures reported out of the multitude of ZT knives in these forums.You have that to go on. Also , lock strength is only one aspect of a knife, while everyone is harping on these meaningless extreme whack tests. Is my point clear?

I you need the best locking mechanism, it is called a fixed blade, Obviously you do not need that or you wouldn't be considering a folder. So what is a good enough lock and what is subpar? A couple of incidents of lock failure don't make a model subpar. Do you really think you need the level of a cold steel lock, everything else aside?
 
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Geneo said:
Oh, well I quoted you because you asked: "Got anything besides random ad hominem? " and " Doesn't change the fact that videos like the OP posted (which is an impressive showing by a ZT) are all we have to go on"

The videos of "what you have to go on" are either not of this world (like the Cold Steel whack Videos) or, like this post, sort of anecdotal. The fact is there have really only been, from what I have seen, a couple of cases of real lock failures reported out of the multitude of ZT knives in these forums.You have that to go on. Also , lock strength is only one aspect of a knife, while everyone is harping on these meaningless extreme whack tests. Is my point clear?
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My statement was a sarcastic jab at the fact that you apparently accused me of being an anti-ZT zealot without bringing up any evidence or paying attention to the fact that I haven't said anything bad about ZT. And I agree that anecdotal evidence is all we have to go on, but anecdotal evidence is still evidence and is significantly better than nothing. Hell, I've mentioned a few times that I have difficulty with the concept of drawing hard conclusions from lock testing because the sample size is too small, which seems to be exactly the point you're bringing up. You seem hell bent on defending ZT from an attack that only you can see and it leaves me a bit puzzled.
 
Great thread stabman, I enjoy your threads because I know anything you post is the absolute truth. ✌🏻️👍🏻👊🏻
 
Insipid Moniker said:
My statement was a sarcastic jab at the fact that you apparently accused me of being an anti-ZT zealot without bringing up any evidence or paying attention to the fact that I haven't said anything bad about ZT. And I agree that anecdotal evidence is all we have to go on, but anecdotal evidence is still evidence and is significantly better than nothing. Hell, I've mentioned a few times that I have difficulty with the concept of drawing hard conclusions from lock testing because the sample size is too small, which seems to be exactly the point you're bringing up. You seem hell bent on defending ZT from an attack that only you can see and it leaves me a bit puzzled.
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LOL I see where we got off on the wrong foot. I wasn't referring to you when I said you anti-ZT zealots. I was speaking out to the thread. My bad.
 
"Mr. Owl, how many spine whacks does it take to get to the center of a ZT folder?"

"Let's find out... Ah-One, A-two-hoo, Thuh-ree... {CRUNCH} ... Thuh-ree."
 
crom said:
Stabman, is that one of the disco'd models? Thx
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Yes it is. :(

pinnah said:
It's all fun man. You know that. Just like this thread is all about fun. You're getting what you want from it. No worries, man.
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Fun is fun. :)

Yo Mama said:
Again, I know little about this lock, but obviously yours has the correct angle man!
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It isn't too steep an angle, so it works well. :thumbup:
My other ZT's have had a similar angle, although the pictures from some folks do seem to show a steeper angle.

Melvin-Purvis said:
Excellent post Stabby, thanks for the share and the laughs too. Mod approved thread; keep it on track guys...
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Neat. :)

bigmark408 said:
Great thread stabman, I enjoy your threads because I know anything you post is the absolute truth. ✌��️��������
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I try to keep it truthful.
On which note, I must admit that I was not the strongest guy at the gym. :D
 
stabman said:
17_zpsn0grmj0t.jpg
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stabman said:
Of course, the most harrowing part was the night-time walk out with all those dangerous toads...you can see the one holding me in place with its might pressed against my boot!
I'm surprised we managed to get out alive. ;)
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Haha. Entertaining post. Thanks for the laughs. That toad looks like it is sumo-wrestling with your boot.
 
I will probably have someone go crazy on me for this but if you are spine whacking your folder your using it wrong. Go get a hammer, or a rock, or a multi-tool, I hammer crap with the side of my Leatherman all the time. Name me one legitimate situation where you need to spine whack something with the blade locked close other than that brand X can do it so why can't brand Y? It's an asinine argument about a problem that doesn't realistically exist.
 
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Ya, but you did not spine wacks your way through that tree...

Plus, I can't trust your Internet pictures!
 
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