ZT hit its peak? Or are they just morphing into something else?

[bodog]

Well it might get locked now from your personal attacks and name calling - you have to expect this kind of stuff in a ZT thread as you and some of the regulars here seem to have a bent on crapping up any thread about ZT. One of the others even pointed out the micro-aggression of your op.

This stuff isn't rocket science.

best

mqqn

If I wanted to crap on ZT I wouldn't be suggesting to them to make tools for first liners. I would think of some other company if I thought they were crap. I think they're now in a position to really capitalize on the ideals they originally stood on without any smoke or bullcrap. They CAN do it now. It'd just take a small adjustment in their thinking.

 

[RamZar]

Really would like it if they just started running unanodized 0392's with different blade shapes from time to time.

I was hoping the 0392 Limited Edition series with 7 models would have 7 different blade shapes not 3 blade shapes. Hinderer has/had quite a few blade shapes: Skinner, Wharncliffe, Bowie, Tanto, Spanto, Slicer, Spearpoint, Harpoon and various other hybrids. Also, too many polarizing anodized or coated color schemes. A regular titanium 0392 without $150 worth of Hinderer hardware and S35VN instead of M390/CTS-204P would probably go for $200.

1. 0392
2. 0392BWBRZ
3. 0392BRNGLD
4. 0392BLKGRN
5. 0392WC
6. 0392PURBLKWC
7. 0392BLUBOWIE

 

[bodog]

Aren't the Rick Hinderer designs made for EMT/First Responders? You know, the Hinderer design collaborations? ZT0560, ZT0562, ZT0392?

Most of the EMT's and LEOs know don't care to spend $100 on a knife and instead carry truck stop quality knives they can just throw away and pick up a new one.

Additionally, ZT offered a dagger just like you alluded to in a previous post - the ZT0150 - however it was not a good seller and was discontinued even though it could be had for $100 and was a great quality dagger.

Very sorry to hear about the injuries to your co-workers. I don't know how a knife would have made a difference for them, but much respect for their diligence.

best

mqqn

The ZT 0150 is fairly close. Probably a little too heavy and not really utilitarian enough. Just to be honest. I wouldn't carry it because I found what I like with the 0180 and a rehandle. Just trying to guess based on what I've seen and heard from others. What's the small dagger that Benchmade makes? Something like that but with a false edge and a hugely versatile sheath. And maybe an add on that can be carried within the sheath that incorporates a Phillips and Straight screwdriver and maybe some kind of glass breaker and/or pry tool. Seems like knife makers hugely underestimate the value of what a good sheath is to most people.

And Jill hasn't emailed me.

 

[halden.doerge]

A regular titanium 0392 without $150 worth of Hinderer hardware and S35VN instead of M390/CTS-204P would probably go for $200.

They could probably do it at $250 and still keep it in 204P just by losing the hinderer hardware. Definitely would be a good move I think.

 

[craytab]

The ZT 0150 is fairly close. Probably a little too heavy and not really utilitarian enough. Just to be honest. I wouldn't carry it because I found what I like with the 0180 and a rehandle. Just trying to guess based on what I've seen and heard from others. What's the small dagger that Benchmade makes? Something like that but with a false edge and a hugely versatile sheath. And maybe an add on that can be carried within the sheath that incorporates a Phillips and Straight screwdriver and maybe some kind of glass breaker and/or pry tool.

And Jill hasn't emailed me.

SOCP: http://www.benchmade.com/socp-dagger.html

Spartan version: https://spartanbladesusa.com/cqb-tool/

Another option: https://spartanbladesusa.com/velos-edc-lapel-dagger-tool/


This stuff is already out there if you actually look for it. Maybe help you buddies out if that is really the goal here. This stuff is far to specialized for what ZT is doing now, which is making money.

 

[brancron]

I figure all they have to do is release every model again, without a flipper.

An 0900 without a flipper would be great. It would essentially be a Les George ESV:

 

[bobpoptart]

Let's see your badge bodog, so we all know you're for real. Like this.

#respect

 

[bodog]

SOCP: http://www.benchmade.com/socp-dagger.html

Spartan version: https://spartanbladesusa.com/cqb-tool/

Another option: https://spartanbladesusa.com/velos-edc-lapel-dagger-tool/

Yeah those are the ones. But guys don't want JUST a dagger. I don't suggest ZT copy other offerings. ZT is in a place to really go balls to the wall with this stuff. I believe the civilian market would go crazy for it but I don't think ZT should cater to that with their "X" line. Multitools, small simple tools, kubatons, and knives meant for all environments. What their original marketing was meant for. But in a real way that includes more than just knives. If any company can do it, KAI can. It just takes breaking away from knife forums and into the real world where people depend on these tools everyday. Not for a specific tradesman, but sure, if they want and can produce a tool for an electrician why not? I suggest first liners to start with because lives are on the line. Then branching off into tools for tradesmen could be done if they wanted.

That really does beat going into super high end collectables that don't really serve any real world purpose.

 

[HappyDaddy]

bodog - What you don't seem willing to consider is the fact that KAI knows the knife business better than you do. They and their dealers are constantly evaluating what sells and what doesn't. That goes for specific models, versions of models, categories, price ranges, and on and on. They've forgotten more about the business of selling knives than you'll ever know.

 

[FullMetalJackass]

This is one of the brands I can't take the plunge on.
I drooled on some a few years ago, but I was not able to afford them.
Now that I am financially sound, and with more knife knowledge, ZT makes me scoff. Or giggle.

I feel they are overpriced, overhyped and I can't stand when a company use the Limited edition marketing trick at a systemic level.

I NOW consider them as wealthy mall ninja knives, just slightly better than Blade Tech.

I think it will be better for the whole knife ecosystem if they either go back to the basics or shut down, as they create an unhealthy artificial price bubble.

 

[craytab]

Yeah those are the ones. But guys don't want JUST a dagger. I don't suggest ZT copy other offerings. ZT is in a place to really go balls to the wall with this stuff. I believe the civilian market would go crazy for it but I don't think ZT should cater to that with their "X" line. Multitools, small simple tools, kubatons, and knives meant for all environments. What their original marketing was meant for. But in a real way that includes more than just knives. If any company can do it, KAI can. It just takes breaking away from knife forums and into the real world where people depend on these tools everyday. Not for a specific tradesman, but sure, if they want and can produce a tool for an electrician why not? I suggest first liners to start with because lives are on the line. Then branching off into tools for tradesmen could be done if they wanted.

That really does beat going into super high end collectables that don't really serve any real world purpose.

All that stuff is already available from other companies. ZT is a knife company. If they thought they could make more money making that other stuff I think they would already be doing it. They aren't morphing into something else. The never were what you are proposing.

 

[chester22]

I don't see where they're not still producing Hard Use Stuff. I've seen a been thru hell 0456 that still looks amazing and has a lifetime of abuse left in it. The 0909 is a beast of a knife with nice grippy G10 handles. The 0900 is a nice compact but beefy folder. Heck the 0220 is a stout blade too. They're all still Overbuilt Blades.

 

[bodog]

Let's see your badge bodog, so we all know you're for real. Like this.

So you get a lot of time with the bad guys in a courtroom? Thank you for your time and effort putting bad guys away but that doesn't mean you know what us guys out in the field need. If you're just looking for credentials then so be it.

One thing I always resented were prosecutors who thought they knew about the real world but never leaving their office for anything but meetings with the defense or for a courtroom. Please, come work for the USAO and then come out with us for two weeks just to get a good feel for what we do and how we need to do it to better attack the bad guys where you operate, in court. Yeah, I almost worked for a HIDTA group in London so maybe we wouldn't have been too far apart. Life had other plans for me.

 

[Mo2]

There are 10000000's of knives on the market, why does ZT have to be the one you pick?

a few first responders i know get custom knives, a few have Jerry Moen custom knives. all carbon fiber.

 

[RamZar]

ZT makes me scoff. Or giggle.

I feel they are overpriced, overhyped and I can't stand when a company use the Limited edition marketing trick at a systemic level.

I NOW consider them as wealthy mall ninja knives, just slightly better than Blade Tech.

I think it will be better for the whole knife ecosystem if they either go back to the basics or shut down, as they create an unhealthy artificial price bubble.

The Limited Editions are a way for ZT & KAI to showcase their design, engineering and manufacturing prowess which becomes a great marketing vehicle.

I don't see much in the current ZT production lineup as what I would characterize for the "wealthy mall ninja" crowd.

I would not characterize ZT production models as overpriced. I think you get tremendous value once you factor in U.S. made, quality materials and workmanship and great customer service & warranty.

Perhaps you can cite some comparisons of ZT models against other knife manufacturers.

 

[PURPLEDC]

My take is this. Kershaw is making some good budget knives. ZT is now aiming towards crazy designs that push the envelope. But there's a big gap between $20 clamshell packaged knives at Walmart (kershaw) and $700 certificate of authenticity premium knives made to show off. Sure, they have knives that fall into the $200-$250 price range but most people won't buy those. Most people think $100-150 is expensive but worth it for good quality. ZT started in this price range and it obviously worked. Guys wanted a little something to show off that'd work hard. Not drop a corvette payment on a knife.

I posit that ZT should return to its roots in A line. Not solely manufacture knives for walmart and I hope they don't abandon their explorations into crazy manufacturing techniques. But they did abandon the segment that DID build their brand, if anything by simply being fodder for marketing phrases.

Blue class, black class, and gold class. Kershaw line, X line, and Zero Tolerance line. For the X line bring back knives like the MUDD, purpose built to withstand crazy environments. Use steels like Cronidur 30 or CPM154. Keep it relatively cheap but built to high standards. Don't need to experiment much in this line. People know or should know what military and law enforcement guys will want to carry and that $150 is about the top of their price range unless they're knife nuts anyway. Add in some specialty tools for paramedics and special ops types. Make some of these tools off limits to the average joe. Maybe develop a new non-magnetic multitool that exceeds what SOG, Leatherman, Gerber, and Victorinox are producing. Make them where they have to be bought directly from KAI with credentials being necessary. I believe this would bring ZT/KAI back to their roots and produce tools that would be interesting to the average first responder while still catering to us knife nerds and the average Joe who thinks $30 is a lot for a pocket knife.

Zt's first offerings were the 0200 & 0300 all variants $200 and above. The 0300 breaching $300 And that was after they opened the business to non military and leo. Initially you had to pay msrp. I know because i got their 0400 scavenger from canada because it was cheaper to import one than to buy from a US distributor. Zt has always had expensive knives from the get go. And their lineup is more diverse now than it ever has been. The vast majority of their products are not expensive limited editions. I honestly dont know where you get your info at times. Either way everyone here knows your take because you remind us on a biweekly basis for a few years now. The only ones who dont know are gold fish and members who joined within the last 14 days.

 

[whitty]

I hate seeing threads like this. ZT is not going to be everything to everyone and that should be good enough. I happen to be a big ZT fan and I do use mine everyday, for what ever task is needed. If that makes me a fan boy who people think is blinded then so be it. I am not a limited edition kind of guy. No matter the knife or the price tag, if I own it I am going to use it. So with the limited edition runs I do understand where the OP is coming from, but I still don't hate on ZT for doing it, or for all the customers who buy them. Most of them I think are really good looking so I understand customers wanting them!

As for what the guys on the front lines carry I find the answer as humorous as all the people here arguing back and forth. We sell plenty of knives to our local LEOs. These guys carry and use just about anything you can imagine. We have sold them knives from every maker we carry. I think if you took just the guys on the SRT and asked them to empty their pockets you would find the most random selection of knives imaginable. They all love knives, they all love something different so what does it matter as long as they are happy with it.

 

[Stays Sharp]

Thomas will make a one pound Ti framelock flipper just for this thread and call it the 'unique'

 

[bodog]

bodog - What you don't seem willing to consider is the fact that KAI knows the knife business better than you do. They and their dealers are constantly evaluating what sells and what doesn't. That goes for specific models, versions of models, categories, price ranges, and on and on. They've forgotten more about the business of selling knives than you'll ever know.

Yes, they obviously know the knife business better than me. But I have been around enough on the ground level to know what's being offered and what's being asked for. Guys in the Tualatin factory can only guess. Without guys on the ground screaming for certain things they'd never know. I have to believe the only reason they're going down the path they are is because of guys on knife forums screaming for certain things and then buying them. Without any regard whatsoever for real world applications.

Well, I'm a guy screaming out for ZT to stand behind their motto and produce tools for professionals. No one else is. Not in a real way that consolidates different tools under one roof and one warranty. If ANY company produced a bunch of tools with a lifetime warranty for reasonable costs, my toolbox would be full of them. Like craftsman or snap on or whatever. If any company could tap into tactical or trade specific tools that are American made with bombproof warranties my belt and rig would be full of them too. KAI is the company that can. That's why I bring this up at all. But they need to separate their gold class and their blue class knives (their bread and butter to be honest) from their black class tooling company. That's why I suggest a completely different name that complements Kershaw and ZT but is its own thing.

I'm not talking about making hammers or wrenches or whatever. But multitools, high quality knives produced for under $150, good tactical pens, seat belt cutters, EOD tools, etc. Not one company is moving to bring those types of tools under one roof for a competitive price and a gold standard warranty.

If ZT is going to evolve, that's cool, but evolve outward instead of just up. It's their business so whatever, but I can say without a doubt there's a market for these things. And if first responders take a liking to them, the civilian world will too. Just refer back to the beginnings of ZT as a knife company.

The only companies that really come close are Gerber, SOG, Leatherman, and Cold Steel. I believe that KAI could outclass all of them. If they decide to. I like spyderco knives but don't believe they'd be willing or able to expand into this area. KAI can.

 

[PURPLEDC]

Three guys I work with were put in the hospital on Christmas Eve and a bad guy went in with a collapsed lung and broken bones in his face. They were doing that to protect you. They deserve tools they want and need and for you to not diminish what they did by trying to make me into some kind of bullshit artist. Some guys are actually out there doing these things and take it seriously. It's not just a hobby or a game or some way to blow money.

Ok, ask yourself if their is such a high demand why arent these things being made? Thats because you as an enthusiast put more of a priority on these things than most. And if the market was there companies would respond. Thing is there are a lot more companies than kai. Yet you always focus on them. Demand drives the market. I promise you if zt came out wi a $250 usa made multitool it would be nothing but cricket chirps. I seriously think you are taking a very small sample size from like minded individuals and pretending it represents the majority. But as usual the real majority tells you you are wrong and are instantly salty about it. And way to crap on someone else with a badge. Just more I'm better than you bs. I have always resented people who take their singular opinions and pretend others are defective because they dont think like them. And its especially annoying when these people do this on a regular basis with te same topic. Over and over and over again. The definition of insanity is the act of repetitive behavior expecting an alternate outcome. This thread being the definition of insanity. Please no "i made this thread so its my domain" excuses.