ZT hit its peak? Or are they just morphing into something else?

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bodog said:
Yes, they obviously know the knife business better than me. But I have been around enough on the ground level to know what's being offered and what's being asked for. Guys in the Tualatin factory can only guess. Without guys on the ground screaming for certain things they'd never know. I have to believe the only reason they're going down the path they are is because of guys on knife forums screaming for certain things and then buying them. Without any regard whatsoever for real world applications.
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What leads you to believe they don't know what "the people" are asking for? It sounds like they don't reach a market you feel they could tap into.

But how do you know that they don't, in fact, know about it, and feel it is not worth their effort?

Have you spent time with their market research team?

How are you coming to these conclusions? :confused:
 
bodog said:
Yes, they obviously know the knife business better than me. But I have been around enough on the ground level to know what's being offered and what's being asked for. Guys in the Tualatin factory can only guess. Without guys on the ground screaming for certain things they'd never know. I have to believe the only reason they're going down the path they are is because of guys on knife forums screaming for certain things and then buying them. Without any regard whatsoever for real world applications.

Well, I'm a guy screaming out for ZT to stand behind their motto and produce tools for professionals. No one else is. Not in a real way that consolidates different tools under one roof and one warranty. If ANY company produced a bunch of tools with a lifetime warranty for reasonable costs, my toolbox would be full of them. Like craftsman or snap on or whatever. If any company could tap into tactical or trade specific tools that are American made with bombproof warranties my belt and rig would be full of them too. KAI is the company that can. That's why I bring this up at all. But they need to separate their gold class and their blue class knives (their bread and butter to be honest) from their black class tooling company. That's why I suggest a completely different name that complements Kershaw and ZT but is its own thing.
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Just for fun, read your first sentence again. Now, square it with the rest of your post. Good luck.
 
bodog said:
Yes, they obviously know the knife business better than me. But I have been around enough on the ground level to know what's being offered and what's being asked for. Guys in the Tualatin factory can only guess. Without guys on the ground screaming for certain things they'd never know. I have to believe the only reason they're going down the path they are is because of guys on knife forums screaming for certain things and then buying them. Without any regard whatsoever for real world applications.
Well, I'm a guy screaming out for ZT to stand behind their motto and produce tools for professionals. No one else is. Not in a real way that consolidates different tools under one roof and one warranty. If ANY company produced a bunch of tools with a lifetime warranty for reasonable costs, my toolbox would be full of them. Like craftsman or snap on or whatever. If any company could tap into tactical or trade specific tools that are American made with bombproof warranties my belt and rig would be full of them too. KAI is the company that can. That's why I bring this up at all. But they need to separate their gold class and their blue class knives (their bread and butter to be honest) from their black class tooling company. That's why I suggest a completely different name that complements Kershaw and ZT but is its own thing.

I'm not talking about making hammers or wrenches or whatever. But multitools, high quality knives produced for under $150, good tactical pens, seat belt cutters, EOD tools, etc. Not one company is moving to bring those types of tools under one roof for a competitive price and a gold standard warranty.

If ZT is going to evolve, that's cool, but evolve outward instead of just up. It's their business so whatever, but I can say without a doubt there's a market for these things. And if first responders take a liking to them, the civilian world will too. Just refer back to the beginnings of ZT as a knife company.
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Me thinks you are giving yourself a little too much credit along with not enough to our "friends" in Tualatin.
 
bodog said:
If ZT is going to evolve, that's cool, but evolve outward instead of just up. It's their business so whatever, but I can say without a doubt there's a market for these things. And if first responders take a liking to them, the civilian world will too. Just refer back to the beginnings of ZT as a knife company.
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If they agreed with you it would be getting done.
 
RamZar said:
I was hoping the 0392 Limited Edition series with 7 models would have 7 different blade shapes not 3 blade shapes. Hinderer has/had quite a few blade shapes: Skinner, Wharncliffe, Bowie, Tanto, Spanto, Slicer, Spearpoint, Harpoon and various other hybrids. Also, too many polarizing anodized or coated color schemes. A regular titanium 0392 without $150 worth of Hinderer hardware and S35VN instead of M390/CTS-204P would probably go for $200.

  1. 0392
  2. 0392BWBRZ
  3. 0392BRNGLD
  4. 0392BLKGRN
  5. 0392WC
  6. 0392PURBLKWC
  7. 0392BLUBOWIE
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I was actually contemplating just getting an Eklipse (though I did pick up a gen 4 20CV spearpoint 3.5" XM18), but oddly enough that model seems somewhat neglected by Hinderer as well. Outside of a few customs, they only seem to offer them in tanto.

But yes, I would be all for a more plain version of the 0392. The last purple WC didn't do it for me, nor does the blue bowie coming up.

Really would love one of these without the bells and whistles.
dbUvcB4.jpg
 
I say ZT is my favorite knife company... But, when I say that it is because the ZT 0350,030X, 056X (hinderer) are my favorite knives. I have been thinking this for awhile, that ZT has left is roots. I really do hope they go back to making knives like their earlier designs. I would love to see some more Hinderer collaborations or maybe updated 0300 series maybe a little bit sleeker with a drop point blade.
 
We live during a renaissance period of knife making. Steels, lock styles, handle materials, CNC machines, etc. Point being, if you don't like what ZT has to offer, there are plenty of other knives out there at almost any price point. And if ZT should be blamed for anything, it ought to be their indecipherable naming conventions. I can't keep that many numbers straight!!!
 
marcinek said:
What leads you to believe they don't know what "the people" are asking for? It sounds like they don't reach a market you feel they could tap into.

But how do you know that they don't, in fact, know about it, and feel it is not worth their effort?

Have you spent time with their market research team?

How are you coming to these conclusions? :confused:
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They're tapping into the knife specific market which is understandable. ZT is a knife company. This is a knife forum. They'll keep going higher and higher. Producing knives that are more and more out of touch to the normal guy. And if they keep selling, good for them. I'm talking about KAI moving outwards and expanding into territory held by other companies and taking those territories over and offering real tools for real professionals that cannot be beat or are just simply not being offered.

If they ask 30 knife nuts, "hey, is this knife something you'd buy?" and the answer is a resounding yes. Well, that's them tapping into the knifeaholic world. But what about going out and asking 30 cops, "hey, is this space pen in an aluminum body designed for self defense at this price something you buy? If your department issued it to you would it be something you'd carry everyday?" Or "hey, we developed this hawkbill knife with a sheath designed to be carried for self defense on a duty belt, would you carry it?" Or asked army engineers and EOD techs, "hey, we developed this multitool that's completely non-magnetic and has a bunch of stuff, is there anything you'd add or remove and then demand your supply department provide?" Or asked army sappers "hey, here's a breaching tool, would you change anything and would you want one with you and if necessary would you buy one with your own money? If not, what can be done that'd make you want one that bad?" Or a bunch of paramedics "hey, here's a pouch/sheath that incorporates this and that. Would you consider these absolutely necessary for your job and can you find these anywhere else from one company who can provide support?"
 
I'd like to see 0770 full titanium, without assist, build like 0450, without any patterns on the handle like in 0801. Or 0801, without grooving and 1 oz. lightest, with 3 mm thick blade.
 
ZT is not really interested in filling every need of every Military/LEO/First Responder personnel. Some of the niche tools are too narrow and limited in how many you can sell. There are various other companies that fill those needs. One doesn't need one giant umbrella company to fill one's needs. Nor do I think that ZT as a business entity wants to do that although they do some special production models that really don't sell well like the excellent 0102 and 0180 in Vanadis 4 Extra.

Bottomline, ZT evolved beyond the strictly "overbuilt" & "tank-like" labels while still making fairly unique knives. It would be foolish to stay in just one market segment.

You can get some insights on ZT and how it has evolved from the December 2016 Off Grid interview with Thomas Welk who's the director of sales & marketing at ZT/KAI.

ZERO TOLERANCE 10-YEAR ANNIVERSARY: INTERVIEW & FACTORY TOUR -- OUR EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH THOMAS WELK OF ZT KNIVES PROVIDES INSIGHT INTO THE COMPANY'S ORIGIN, KNIFE DESIGNS, AND FUTURE PROJECTS
 
bodog said:
If they ask 30 knife nuts, "hey, is this knife something you'd buy?" and the answer is a resounding yes. Well, that's them tapping into the knifeaholic world. But what about going out and asking ....
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Who, other than you, says they haven't and found it not worth they effort?

And also,

You ask 30 rabid ZT fans if they would buy a knife, and if they say yes, they will, and the rest of the rabid fans will too.

You can ask 30 cops if they would buy it, and even if they all say "Yes" it doesn't mean they will.

You can ask 30 one armed Mongolian scuba divers if they would buy it and even if they say yes and do buy it, those 30 might be the entire market.

Clearly you feel underserved by ZT now. So do I. I don't any of what they make. Never did.

But that doesn't mean their market research is clueless.

Unless you know something about it that the rest of us don't. Do you? :confused:

It just means I don't always get what I want. No use getting upset about it.
 
RamZar said:
ZT is not really interested in filling every need of every Military/LEO/First Responder personnel. Some of the niche tools are too narrow and limited in how many you can sell. There are various other companies that fill those needs. One doesn't need one giant umbrella company to fill one's needs. Nor do I think that ZT as a business entity wants to do that although they do some special production models that really don't sell well like the excellent 0102 and 0180 in Vanadis 4 Extra.

Bottomline, ZT evolved beyond the strictly "overbuilt" & "tank-like" labels while still making fairly unique knives. It would be foolish to stay in just one market segment.

You can get some insights on ZT and how it has evolved from the December 2016 Off Grid interview with Thomas Welk who's the director of sales & marketing at ZT/KAI.

ZERO TOLERANCE 10-YEAR ANNIVERSARY: INTERVIEW & FACTORY TOUR -- OUR EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH THOMAS WELK OF ZT KNIVES PROVIDES INSIGHT INTO THE COMPANY'S ORIGIN, KNIFE DESIGNS, AND FUTURE PROJECTS
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I listened to it. Didn't offer any significant insights. Though the pictures of the factory and different WIP pictures were cool.

And point isn't that ZT should already be catering to all of these people. It's that they made their bones on that premise and could expand into that territory. Even if they don't make a heap of money it'd give something needed to the people they stood upon to get their business up and going. I know a lot of guys, including myself, who'd appreciate it. And I don't expect people from outside that world to understand. But there IS a niche market. It IS empty, at least as far as a single company dominating it, and ZT could. I believe based on how ZT has operated it wouldn't let people down even if a little imperfect. And we do need some of these things and we need a common place to look. It gets old searching all over the place looking for just the right tool that is made to some kind of standard.
 
ourgon said:
I'd like to see 0770 full titanium, without assist, build like 0450, without any patterns on the handle like in 0801. Or 0801, without grooving and 1 oz. lightest, with 3 mm thick blade.
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I'd like to see all the Assisted Opening ZTs replaced with KVT. The 0770 is light as is with inset liner lock so a titanium frame lock version may become relatively too heavy. 0566 with stainless steel frame lock is just too heavy for a small knife.

0801 weighs 5.85 ounces with a 3.5" blade that's 0.16" thick. If they used thinner titanium or skeletonized it and used thinner stock they could shave a whole ounce off the weight. A step in that direction is 0095BW with a 3.625" blade that's 0.12" thick and thinner titanium weighing 5.30 ounces.
 
I say again... ZT9 bayonet.



Bring it back.

(along with 80's speed metal)
 
whitty said:
.....As for what the guys on the front lines carry I find the answer as humorous as all the people here arguing back and forth. We sell plenty of knives to our local LEOs. These guys carry and use just about anything you can imagine. We have sold them knives from every maker we carry. I think if you took just the guys on the SRT and asked them to empty their pockets you would find the most random selection of knives imaginable. They all love knives, they all love something different so what does it matter as long as they are happy with it.
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Totally agreed on this, Whitty! I have a few relatives and a ton of close friends in Law Enforcement and they would totally appreciate your response. I rarely even see more than 2 guys carrying the same knife as a work EDC. They would find it really laughable some of the responses on here. They don't care about the popularity or the name or whatever other nonsense delusion people have about it, limited edition bells & whistles...they go for practicality. As long as it's good quality and it'll stand up to task when they need it most, that's what they carry, that's what they stick with. So glad you pointed this out.
 
SevenOfNine said:
They don't care about the popularity or the name or whatever other nonsense delusion people have about it, limited edition bells & whistles...they go for practicality. As long as it's good quality and it'll stand up to task when they need it most, that's what they carry, that's what they stick with.
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I'm so glad YOU pointed this out.
 
They should make fancier knives for front line pimps and drug dealers. That is what I really want to see. ZT should stick to what I consider its roots and produce awsome knives for a criminal to show off to his friends as a piece of pocket bling. I think their hard use knives are really slowing down the company and the way the company is growing I want to see more blades with 24k gold inserts and diamond thumb studs. If ZT asked me I would tell then exactly the direction their company should go. I went down to my local hood and asked the local gangsters what they wanted in a blade, so how can ZT not acknowledge and pick up on this market! It's infuriating! ZT needs to respect OG Pistol Pete and get this done now! It's time to ride for the 5, 6 must die!

(This post is 100% sarcastic and ironic for those of you with no sense of those things)
 
Why dont you just get a Strider and stop crying about ZT's making things you dont like? or talk to ZT about making a special order for first responders specifically.
 
One thing to be put on behalf of ZT is that they make good knives, with good materials and offer them at competitive prices

As any company they have to adapt their offer to fit the market

One may regrets they "dilute" some of they soul in the process but it may be a price to pay to grow...
 
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