ZT hit its peak? Or are they just morphing into something else?

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bodog said:
That's kind of my point. They don't NEED to offer products that expensive. Not all the time and not for everyone. They could take it down a notch and supply real tools at reasonable prices that opens their market up quite a bit. I'm sure they'll do that if people demand it, but if people keep saying "NO! I WANT KNIVES OVER $180!" they'll keep doing it on their fairly limited basis.
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Then buy something else. Lose the hard on for zt and buy from who makes what you want. Is it just easier to pick a company and constantly complain that they dont do things your way? I mean seriously its all too simple. Why sit and complain ferrari doesnt make four door luxury sedans in the $60,000 price bracket when one its not the market they desire to be in and two when millions of other options exist.
 
RamZar said:
Would you pay the $650 dealer price for the 0606BLK?
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No. I'd consider it though. Considering it now, TBH. But that's my knife nerd side. Not my pragmatic side. For $500 I'd strongly consider it and maybe pull the trigger. I would've bought the 454 at $500, too. The steel was a little bit of a letdown but everything else about it was more than enough to justify it for myself. For $400 I'd pull the trigger. If I wasn't a knife nerd I'd ask if we're all crazy for paying anything more than $150 for any knife.
 
PURPLEDC said:
Then buy something else. Lose the hard on for zt and buy from who makes what you want. Is it just easier to pick a company and constantly complain that they dont do things your way? I mean seriously its all too simple. Why sit and complain ferrari doesnt make four door luxury sedans in the $60,000 price bracket when one its not the market they desire to be in and two when millions of other options exist.
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Or if you don't like what's being talked about just don't click on the link???
 
After 8 pages, it's pretty clear the OP Author is a massive ZT fan, but doesn't feel that they appreciate his opinion, and he's upset about it.

:rolleyes:
 
http://www.everydaycommentary.com/2016/12/part-iii-welcome-back-to-reality.html
ZT has decided to do custom tacticals without the spotty fit and finish (which you lauded as a sign that it was hand made) and the exorbitant price tags. You know that Sinkevich you have pined after? You can buy one of his designs for under $200. And guess what? Unlike the gorilla-sized custom, the ZT0450 actually cuts things AND fits in a pocket.


Crazy, I know. And if that is not enough, they have Hinderer flippers that actually flip, RJ Martin knives that...well...I can't think of a snarky way to describe them...but look....RJ Martin knives that you can afford and are semi-available! And if you are really daring you can buy one of their Uber Triples, knives designed by Jim McNair and others, who, while lacking the name recognition of famous random guy with a garage grinder and IG account, are people that actually know how to design and make knives. Its strange how that works--knife companies, unlike IG fanboys, require actual skill at knifemaking. This is a wacky world we live in.

... skip skip


One sad bit of news, though, Benchmade has pretty much become irrelevant to knife fans.

... skip skip

Then, when you are more comfortable with the idea of precision, you can upgrade to a ZT or a Spyderco where there is no blade play. It will be a hard transition, but you can do it.

... skip skip

You could also look at some of the Chinese brands--Reate, Rike, WE, and Kizer.

There you will find the exact designs you wanted from a custom maker that had a two year wait, but with better materials, equal fit and finish, and 1/8 the price. Its so amazing to get what you want without having 85% of the joy of knife ownership being found in waiting and anticipating the knife's arrival.
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the rest is a good read too.
part 2 http://www.everydaycommentary.com/2016/12/customs-gone-crazy-part-ii-end-of-boom.html
part 1 http://www.everydaycommentary.com/2016/12/customs-gone-crazy-part-i-irrational.html
 
bodog said:
If I wasn't a knife nerd I'd ask if we're all crazy for paying anything more than $150 for any knife.
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There's always a balance of needs vs. wants, subjective criteria (big black hole) and premium quality, materials and CS/warranty.

Personally, I can get all my needs including premium quality, materials and CS/warranty answered in the $150 to $250 primary market price range.
 
RamZar said:
There's always a balance of needs vs. wants, subjective criteria (big black hole) and premium quality, materials and CS/warranty.

Personally, I can get all my needs including premium quality, materials and CS/warranty answered in the $150 to $250 primary market price range.
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Me too but not many people are as interested in looking as we are. We can even hand it to our friends and family on a silver plate and they'll still look at us crazy. That's the whole point of this thread. Tap into those people who look at us knife nerds as crazy yet still want some high quality tool. For most people $150 still causes some sideways glances. Offer a selection of tools that mean something to people and they'll consider the $150 because the company offers what are obviously necessary tools for people who need them.
 
RamZar said:
Currently, ZT has a couple of in-house designers and has collaborations with Todd Rexford, Les George, RJ Martin, Rick Hinderer, Ernest Emerson, Dmitry Sinkevich and Jens Anso.

I'm sure we'll see more designers in the future and perhaps as soon as the 2017 SHOT Show next month.
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And have used Ken Onion, Strider and G&G Hawk as well
 
Lost interest in ZT when everything started rolling on bearings and looking like an art knife. Leave the jewelry for kids and go back to making real knives ZT.
 
Mick_1KRR said:
Lost interest in ZT when everything started rolling on bearings and looking like an art knife. Leave the jewelry for kids and go back to making real knives ZT.
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The Emerson collaborations run on washers: 0620, 0620CF, 0630, 0630CF.
 
austonh said:
After 8 pages, it's pretty clear the OP Author is a massive ZT fan, but doesn't feel that they appreciate his opinion, and he's upset about it.

:rolleyes:
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Most people here on BF think I can't stand ZT because I'm not entirely bubbly about what they do. I do like a lot about them as a company though. That doesn't matter to most. I'm offering suggestions to the KAI reps who I figure read this without posting. No, I'm not a fan boy but I do recognize what they could do in a big way that fits directly into their motto from the beginning. They're obviously not opposed as they made some hatchets and pens and bayonets and whatnot. It just happens that those things were probably overpriced for the intended market so they didn't sell that well. And they put the idea out waaayyyy before they were ready to come to the market. The furor had died off before the piece dropped to dealers.
 
So back on the original question - I would answer "morphing into something else."
 
RamZar said:
The Emerson collaborations run on washers: 0620, 0620CF, 0630, 0630CF.
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It's just a shame that's the last of them, i've owned all those and sold them off just as a matter of taste. Lets get real, there is no 'need' for bearings, a knife can easily flip just as well on washers, bearings have just become the new gimmick for marketing with flippers. What bugs me is there's no interface between the titanium and ball bearings, they bearings slowly cut a track into the frame of the knife over time because the bearings are so much harder than the Ti. Also any strong lateral force can put tiny indents into the Ti with the bearings as well. For every day use fair enough the bearings will work and last long enough for you to get sick of the knife and trade it off anyways. But, how about staying true to your name? ZT are like a band who started with one style of music, got a huge fan base and then decided to try be like other bands and keep up with trends. The Zero Tolerance words don't quite relate much to their knives anymore, every man and his dog makes Ti framelock flippers with bearings, the market is over-saturated.
 
Mick_1KRR said:
It's just a shame that's the last of them, i've owned all those and sold them off just as a matter of taste. Lets get real, there is no 'need' for bearings, a knife can easily flip just as well on washers, bearings have just become the new gimmick for marketing with flippers. What bugs me is there's no interface between the titanium and ball bearings, they bearings slowly cut a track into the frame of the knife over time because the bearings are so much harder than the Ti. Also any strong lateral force can put tiny indents into the Ti with the bearings as well. For every day use fair enough the bearings will work and last long enough for you to get sick of the knife and trade it off anyways. But, how about staying true to your name? ZT are like a band who started with one style of music, got a huge fan base and then decided to try be like other bands and keep up with trends. The Zero Tolerance words don't quite relate much to their knives anymore, every man and his dog makes Ti framelock flippers with bearings, the market is over-saturated.
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my ZT bb knives have metal between the ti and bearings. and i havent had any issues. its my choice to buy bb and i prefer them. its not like i dont have knives with washers, i use them too, but i use BB more often. i like how they drop shut. 2 of my benchmades drop shut on washers... either way im a fidgeter tho, it helps me.
 
Mick_1KRR said:
It's just a shame that's the last of them, i've owned all those and sold them off just as a matter of taste. Lets get real, there is no 'need' for bearings, a knife can easily flip just as well on washers, bearings have just become the new gimmick for marketing with flippers. What bugs me is there's no interface between the titanium and ball bearings, they bearings slowly cut a track into the frame of the knife over time because the bearings are so much harder than the Ti. Also any strong lateral force can put tiny indents into the Ti with the bearings as well. For every day use fair enough the bearings will work and last long enough for you to get sick of the knife and trade it off anyways. But, how about staying true to your name? ZT are like a band who started with one style of music, got a huge fan base and then decided to try be like other bands and keep up with trends. The Zero Tolerance words don't quite relate much to their knives anymore, every man and his dog makes Ti framelock flippers with bearings, the market is over-saturated.
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Fair enough and is kind of what I'm talking about. They started off as something and they're really not that anymore. Like Rage against the machine playing a concert at the white house. Sure, their music is reminiscent but what did they become? A lot of people would follow them regardless and if you're intent on making money then who cares who buys the tickets and what venue you end up at. All I'm doing is trying to offer a way for ZT (KAI, really) to stay true to what they professed. And many many people don't care as long as they can arrive at the show and have fun and they'll actually become hostile when someone says "hey, rage against the machine, why are you playing at the white house and why did you stop standing up for those people you originally spoke to?"
 
Mo2 said:
my ZT bb knives have metal between the ti and bearings. and i havent had any issues. its my choice to buy bb and i prefer them. its not like i dont have knives with washers, i use them too, but i use BB more often. i like how they drop shut. 2 of my benchmades drop shut on washers... either way im a fidgeter tho, it helps me.
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I think you might be thinking of the one side with the steel liner, the other side unfortunately is just metal bearings rubbing on titanium. Hey at the end of the day my taste isn't everyones and i respect what other people enjoy, cos heck, half this hobby is the fun aspect right? Fidgeting is fun since most of us have ocd :)
 
Mo2 said:
you can still get a MUDD, millit knives make them, and you can get them from G&G hawk.
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Millit is a very high-quality knife manufacturer in Idaho making knives for others like Koenig, Gavko, Aegis, etc. Those G&G Hawk MUDD folders in CTS-XHP are priced around $500. ZT 0500 MUDD with 154CM blade was selling for about $144 around 7-8 years ago.
 
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