ZT hit its peak? Or are they just morphing into something else?

[bodog]

Millit is a very high-quality knife manufacturer making knives for others like Koenig, Gavko, Aegis, etc. Those G&G Hawk MUDD folders are priced around $500. ZT 0500 MUDD with 154CM blade was selling for about $144 around 7-8 years ago.

Good info man. Can't wait for the new self branded millit knife to come out. It'll probably win some awards.

 

[HappyDaddy]

How much more plainly does it need to be said? KAI is a very large company that got that way because it knows how to judge the market for its products. It does that in a professional and structured way. It does not do it by reading the anecdotal wish lists of random dudes on the internet. When their product line coincides with any particular random dude's wish list it is purely serendipity.

 

[chester22]

And I will continue to buy and use these knives. I use all my ZTs LE or Not and they've served me well.

 

[n850gt]

Edited

 

[Gideons]

How much more plainly does it need to be said? KAI is a very large company that got that way because it knows how to judge the market for its products. It does that in a professional and structured way. It does not do it by reading the anecdotal wish lists of random dudes on the internet. When their product line coincides with any particular random dude's wish list it is purely serendipity.

These "random dudes" are their customers. They need customers to make money. I think, as somebody who is a "loyal" customer, who bought around 7 ZT's but none in the while (except a 2nd 0566bw) we can voice our opinion. They can choose to not listen to it, but that is never a smart business move. Zero tolerance branch of KAI got big BECAUSE they sold a high end hard use knife.

 

[yoz's friend]

the 0900 is my favorite. i carry it every day.

 

[stabman]

What is ZT doing? Are they looking for simple profits from the knife market or are they serving people in a way those people haven't been served before? I know what they were founded on. Now it seems like once they became recognized they left the front liners to Gerber or whoever, yet again, while serving some guys who rarely make it away from their desk except to fondle their knives like some troll from lord of the rings movie talking about their "precious."

These threads are brought to you courtesy of my Avatar, which I controlled remotely from my desk.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1397977-ZT-Camp-(with-surprise-dog-appearance)

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1445706-Ultra-light-Camping-With-a-Junglas

And for old time's sake... http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1286779-You-can-t-do-THAT-with-a-ZT

 

[bodog]

How much more plainly does it need to be said? KAI is a very large company that got that way because it knows how to judge the market for its products. It does that in a professional and structured way. It does not do it by reading the anecdotal wish lists of random dudes on the internet. When their product line coincides with any particular random dude's wish list it is purely serendipity.

I hate to tell you but no one is entirely accurate at gauging true market interest. The best actually go into the market and ask and observe and listen. ZT found a niche with super high end knives. If they don't move on from that they'll soon find they will hit their limit and others will catch up (especially companies from China). It's a nice thing for now but selling fad knives, no matter how well crafted, isn't a good long term goal. I'm offering something that can last for awhile. If they keep on going and fail, good. If they don't, good. Whatever. I'm not invested in the company. I'm just invested in people working for a good wage and buying good products that serve my needs. Hopefully companies keep the American economy going but I don't believe knifemakers contribute greatly to the GDP. I don't care any more about KAI than Toyota, they're putting at least some money into America by employing Americans at a decent wage. That doesn't stop the fact that they CAN produce these things and expand past faddish pocket jewelry. I get why they're doing it. They need to establish their dominance or at least viability in the market. But it's not a good long term goal and anyone should be able to see that. Offering tools that can't be touched by anyone else keeps in line with their current products, talents, manufacturing capabilities, style, etc.

 

[RamZar]

Thanks to you and SJ, I just did.

I'm salivating at the thought of having it in hand. I like the form and the feel of the 0606CF, just not the coloration. The BLK doesn't have that problem to my eye.

Congrats. 0606BLK looks fabulous! I can't say that about 0606CF which I got for $500. Too gaudy.

 

[ISP 5353]

I only own two ZT knives. I have had an 808 for a while and just picked up a 0452FC from Scott. The 808 has held up very well and served me well. The 0452CF is a pocket sword that I am pretty impressed with so far. With the variety that ZT offers it seems like most folks could find one they like. If not, then look and buy someplace else. It is a free market, shop around and buy what you want. There are lots of great knives and designs available out there.

 

[22-rimfire]

....If ZT is going to evolve, that's cool, but evolve outward instead of just up. It's their business so whatever, but I can say without a doubt there's a market for these things. And if first responders take a liking to them, the civilian world will too. Just refer back to the beginnings of ZT as a knife company.

I have to say that I agree with this. I don't like the negativity in this thread, but I think ZT could do a better job at the low to middle end of their line that are very functional. Few people need 10 ZT knives; that's where collectors come into play as well as those with deeper pockets than me. I think ZT could cater to both spectrums while show casing their products.

 

[craytab]

I listened to it. Didn't offer any significant insights. Though the pictures of the factory and different WIP pictures were cool.

And point isn't that ZT should already be catering to all of these people. It's that they made their bones on that premise and could expand into that territory. Even if they don't make a heap of money it'd give something needed to the people they stood upon to get their business up and going. I know a lot of guys, including myself, who'd appreciate it. And I don't expect people from outside that world to understand. But there IS a niche market. It IS empty, at least as far as a single company dominating it, and ZT could. I believe based on how ZT has operated it wouldn't let people down even if a little imperfect. And we do need some of these things and we need a common place to look. It gets old searching all over the place looking for just the right tool that is made to some kind of standard.

If they wanted to they would. Just because they don't make what you like doesn't mean you have to constantly bash them. Stop whining about it and find what you and your on the ground buddies want. In a tenth of a second off the top of my head I was able to come up with knives made by other companies that fit the exact roll you want. It is all out there. Help those buddies you so desperately want to help. It might not be through ZT but the stuff you want is made. Go find it.

Or if you don't like what's being talked about just don't click on the link???

And if you don't like all the responses to your straw man argument then you don't have to read them......

 

[Mo2]

Millit is a very high-quality knife manufacturer in Idaho making knives for others like Koenig, Gavko, Aegis, etc. Those G&G Hawk MUDD folders in CTS-XHP are priced around $500. ZT 0500 MUDD with 154CM blade was selling for about $144 around 7-8 years ago.

yes exactly, i follow them on IG, and im a fan of the ZT mudd. would be nice to have a mudd for around $150 give or take, heck id pay more for better steel than 154cm tho.

$500 is too much for most people but they are stellar knives and im sure worth it for the front liners.

 

[Mo2]

These threads are brought to you courtesy of my Avatar, which I controlled remotely from my desk.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1397977-ZT-Camp-(with-surprise-dog-appearance)

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1445706-Ultra-light-Camping-With-a-Junglas

And for old time's sake... http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1286779-You-can-t-do-THAT-with-a-ZT

at some point you just need to get a fixed blade. but yea, its great that the ZT folders will do great work. i wouldnt hesitate to use any of my BB flipper ZT's for any of that work. the smaller ones not so much tho. 804cf is perfect tho.

What are ALL the old ZT knives that everyone keeps talking about being what the OP wants? what was the BEFORE?

 

[craytab]

These threads are brought to you courtesy of my Avatar, which I controlled remotely from my desk.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1397977-ZT-Camp-(with-surprise-dog-appearance)

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1445706-Ultra-light-Camping-With-a-Junglas

And for old time's sake... http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1286779-You-can-t-do-THAT-with-a-ZT

The ZT Axe thread. Love it. Not a specialized enough tool for the OP I guess. (response about people on the ground in 3. 2. 1.).

 

[22-rimfire]

... $500 is too much for most people but they are stellar knives and im sure worth it for the front liners.

ZT does make some great knives. I refuse to spend $500 on a factory folder regardless of the brand.

 

[HappyDaddy]

These "random dudes" are their customers. They need customers to make money. I think, as somebody who is a "loyal" customer, who bought around 7 ZT's but none in the while (except a 2nd 0566bw) we can voice our opinion. They can choose to not listen to it, but that is never a smart business move. Zero tolerance branch of KAI got big BECAUSE they sold a high end hard use knife.

I figured someone would take issue with that. The point that I think is being missed is that the decisions are made based on what sells, which also gives an indication of what willsell. They are studying their market, along with their distributors and retailers, all the time. If the time comes that their market research suggests a stronger market for categories and price-points that their lineup doesn't adequately meet, they'll adjust their offerings. That a few people here wish they were still making the 0560, etc., isn't going to matter a whit. If those knives were still selling, they'd still be making them.

 

[Mick_1KRR]

How much more plainly does it need to be said? KAI is a very large company that got that way because it knows how to judge the market for its products. It does that in a professional and structured way. It does not do it by reading the anecdotal wish lists of random dudes on the internet. When their product line coincides with any particular random dude's wish list it is purely serendipity.

Without enough of these "random dudes" KAI would be out of business.

 

[RamZar]

What are ALL the old ZT knives that everyone keeps talking about being what the OP wants? what was the BEFORE?

The really old folders are 0300, 0301, 0302, 0303, 0200, 0400, 0500, 0610, 0650, 0700, 0750, 0780.

 

[Scurvy092]

Regardless of whether the OP is LEO or not, it doesn't make his opinion any more or less valid. I think there is some odd notion on forums that manufacturers have a moral obligation to create every product they make for LEO, Fire and Paramedic; and we as the consumer or supposed to take a back seat and be grateful we can buy the same products.

As others have pointed out, if you don't like what a company is doing, move onto other companies that you do like. #adulting

Those people who feel that way should just stick with buying HK. They have built an entire reputation on the 'we only provide to operators and we hate having to sell to consumers.'