.

ThreeDrobot said:
I dont know all the legality's and dont really care that much. People have different opinions on everything.

All I know is that I will probably never be able to afford a real Rolex but I can buy a fake one for around a hundred bucks that is the same thing, the same watch in every way except it is not made at the Rolex factory!
I saved 12,000 dollars by not buying the name.

At least the people that buy the fake brands are showing that they aspire to own the real things. That says something.
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Like you, I probably wont ever be in a financial position to afford a Rolex. However, if $100 was my watch budget, I would be proud to pick up a nice looking Casio G Shock or a lightly used Citizen Eco Drive. Both would be well made and from a legitimate company.

People that buy fakes with the intention of passing them off as real do not aspire to own the real thing. They want to pose like they are more well off than they actually are. If you actually aspired to own a Rolex or other high quality, luxury items, you would work harder to better your station in life so you can proudly afford the real deal.
 
stbob said:
No, in the industry that's known as dumming it down. China allegedly did a fantastic job cloning the sebenza, are we to believe they couldn't get their hands on some hex screws...?
Still waiting on the steel test results, may take up to several weeks. Have a great weekend...
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Not sure if you're being a deliberate troll, or just naturally obtuse...

It's the little screw-ups by counterfeiters that allow people to identify them as such.
Like aircraft engine fans that have the correct stamp...except for it being upside down.
 
robgmn said:
Reeve suffers nothing from the clones.
Neither does Hinderer, Strider, any of the Swiss watchmakers, etc.
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I disagree with you and your quote above.

"Intellectual property rights theft is not a victimless crime. It threatens U.S. businesses and robs hard-working Americans of their jobs, which negatively impacts the economy. It can also pose serious health and safety risks to consumers, and oftentimes, it fuels global organized crime."
https://www.iprcenter.gov/about-us/ipr
 
stbob said:
No, in the industry that's known as dumming it down. China allegedly did a fantastic job cloning the sebenza, are we to believe they couldn't get their hands on some hex screws...?
Still waiting on the steel test results, may take up to several weeks. Have a great weekend...
Click to expand...

hope this isn't hoax. If you don't make good... theres nothing I can do about it...
 
08/14/2012
2 Illinois women sentenced for selling counterfeit goods

During search warrants executed by law enforcement officers May 12 at Grant's home and at Nein's Argenta warehouse, officers recovered more than 15,000 counterfeit items with a total estimated manufacturer's suggested retail price of about $1.6 million. The seized luxury goods included 2,000 purses, 900 wallets, 400 sunglasses, 10,900 emblems and medallions, and other items.

Officers recovered various items that Grant surrendered, including a 2008 Dodge Caravan, a 2003 BMW, and $18,052 in currency at her home. Officers also recovered $4,487 from the business's bank account and $80,000 held in a safe deposit box. Grant previously agreed to forfeit $47,522, the amount Grant had paid on two homes in Bloomington, Ill., in lieu of forfeiting real estate.

2015
Grand Prairie Man Admits Role in Counterfeit Goods Trafficking Conspiracy

DALLAS — A 31-year-old, Grand Prairie, Texas, man, Evan Patterson, pleaded guilty today in federal court before U.S. Magistrate Judge Irma C. Ramirez to his role in a conspiracy to traffic counterfeit goods, announced U.S. Attorney John Parker of the Northern District of Texas.

Patterson, who remains on bond, pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to traffic in counterfeit goods. He faces a maximum statutory sentence of five years in federal prison and a $250,000 fine. Sentencing is set for February 16, 2016, before U.S. District Judge Sam A. Lindsay.
 
On 10 December 2014, two shipments from China were seized containing 15,004 knives. These were counterfeit. The total retail value was at $187,962. Many trademarks were infringed including the Marine Corp, Batman and many others
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Some strong opinions. And I respect them all, as long as you can respect mine.

Looking forward to the big test.
 
All the noise should stop its old. He bought one let's see the review. He new what he was buying if we don't like it don't read the review.
 
Tetsujin 140.6 said:
I disagree with you and your quote above.

"Intellectual property rights theft is not a victimless crime. It threatens U.S. businesses and robs hard-working Americans of their jobs, which negatively impacts the economy. It can also pose serious health and safety risks to consumers, and oftentimes, it fuels global organized crime."
https://www.iprcenter.gov/about-us/ipr
Click to expand...

Yeah, but we're not talking about a pirated e-book, DVD, CD, or other low-dollar item (of which clones can be virtually identical) here.
We're talking about the assumption that someone who was going to buy a $500 knife would be willing to purchase a $35 copy and be happy with that instead. Or, the person who was ready to drop $6,000 on a Rolex Submariner, would buy the Canal Street clone instead.
Ain't happening.
If it is, then they're likely not being honest about buying the real deal in the first place.

Now, the clone of a $20 DVD that is a bit-perfect copy? Or the Spyderco clone sold as if it were real (and th eowner never finds out the truth)?
Different story altogether...
 
The real question is:

If the $30 clone is really just as tight, just as immaculately finished, has steel that rivals the original, and performs really just as well or even better, what could we as a knife community do to force the $500 knifemaker to drop his prices?

No one expects a US made product to be made with slave labor, but then again, you don't know if the Chinese company does either. Maybe they've simply streamlined the process to the point where they can produce something outstanding at a fraction of the cost. There's no reason to punish them (aside from the IPR violations) for producing great products cheaper and cheaper.

We shouldn't punish the Chinese or whoever. We should act in the political realm to even the trade deals, reduce corporate tax, reduce corporate burdens related to manufacturing in the US, etc. Instead we're going the opposite way and the Chinese are simply capitalizing on it. It's not their fault, really. They're only giving us what we ask for. For some people that's a knife that looks and performs as well as a CRK, for others it's a TV, or a pair of shoes, etc.

Before you guys flame me, you should ask yourself. If China can mass produce a knife that is really almost as good as a small batch knife maker who wins award after award here in the States, then we need to change some things drastically and quickly. Either step up the quality and give what cannot be mass produced or step up the quality and quantity of our own production to drop the end user costs to something that can compete with China.

That's just reality. Thumping chests, waving fists, and bitching won't really do anything to help. Until our own entrepreneurs can outdo China via quality or quantity, we can't complain. At the root of it we're just mad that they can do what our country used to do but can no longer. Out quality the country known for quality at a much cheaper price.

Our country better get on the ball and start getting politicians who want to bring back solid manufacturing zones and start forcing some solid trade deals that help America and cutting programs that are literally putting American companies out of business for good.
 
I think people are afraid of a real qualitative test between a $30 knife and a $500 knife. It really doesn't matter if it's this clone against a CRK or a Cold Steel against the same. People always get mad when the $500 knife loses and find some reason to be upset. In this case a potential rival is a clone, but if it wasn't that it'd be something else.

If it was a knife that looked exactly like a CRK but cost $5000 no one would care. They'd call the guy an idiot for buying one.
 
bodog said:
The real question is:

If the $30 clone is really just as tight, just as immaculately finished, has steel that rivals the original, and performs really just as well or even better, what could we as a knife community do to force the $500 knifemaker to drop his prices?

No one expects a US made product to be made with slave labor, but then again, you don't know if the Chinese company does either. Maybe they've simply streamlined the process to the point where they can produce something outstanding at a fraction of the cost. There's no reason to punish them (aside from the IPR violations) for producing great products cheaper and cheaper.

We shouldn't punish the Chinese or whoever. We should act in the political realm to even the trade deals, reduce corporate tax, reduce corporate burdens related to manufacturing in the US, etc. Instead we're going the opposite way and the Chinese are simply capitalizing on it. It's not their fault, really. They're only giving us what we ask for. For some people that's a knife that looks and performs as well as a CRK, for others it's a TV, or a pair of shoes, etc.

Before you guys flame me, you should ask yourself. If China can mass produce a knife that is really almost as good as a small batch knife maker who wins award after award here in the States, then we need to change some things drastically and quickly. Either step up the quality and give what cannot be mass produced or step up the quality and quantity of our own production to drop the end user costs to something that can compete with China.

That's just reality. Thumping chests, waving fists, and bitching won't really do anything to help. Until our own entrepreneurs can outdo China via quality or quantity, we can't complain. At the root of it we're just mad that they can do what our country used to do but can no longer. Out quality the country known for quality at a much cheaper price.

Our country better get on the ball and start getting politicians who want to bring back solid manufacturing zones and start forcing some solid trade deals that help America and cutting programs that are literally putting American companies out of business for good.
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I agree that we need to bring back maufacturing jobs to promote a viable US economy, however, without copyright laws, there is no guarantee that the consumer is getting their money's worth. Perhaps some people might think that we should throw out all the rules. This way we can start printing and circulating Chinese currency.
 
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Bottom line is no they can't make a knife for $30 that equals the Sebenza.

Now if they could find a factory over there that can work in the same tolerances that CRK does and use the same materials they could make it for less....

But not that much less.
 
Ankerson said:
Bottom line is no they can't make a knife for $30 that equals the Sebenza.

Now if they could find a factory over there that can work in the same tolerances that CRK does and use the same materials they could make it for less....

But not that much less.
Click to expand...

I'd have to agree with you but I'd also have to leave in the possibility that maybe they produced a knife that is 98% as good. The reason it's dangerous is because for most people 98% of a CRK is damned good. At a fraction of the cost it IS a threat. If it wasn't a true threat then people wouldn't truly think twice about it. They may say something but really, they wouldn't care. But no one knows unless testing is done and if the tests are done and the clone wins for most practical purposes, would you publish the results?
 
All old stuff, but:

A product is "worth" what a willing buyer pays a willing seller for the product.

The counterfeit seller is selling the brand - the trademark - not the product. That is why he puts the fake label on the product. He either fools (cheats) the buyer or the buyer wants the feeling of having the brand even in the form of a fake OR the buyer wants to fools others

All the public needs to do to stop the sale of $500 knives it to stop buying them. If you don't buy, there is no sale. But "prestige" brands of all sorts of good sell - hence the counterfeits.


And copyright is not relevant to this issue. It would be were he discussing counterfeit books or magazines.
 
bodog said:
I'd have to agree with you but I'd also have to leave in the possibility that maybe they produced a knife that is 98% as good. The reason it's dangerous is because for most people 98% of a CRK is damned good. At a fraction of the cost it IS a threat. If it wasn't a true threat then people wouldn't truly think twice about it. They may say something but really, they wouldn't care.
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At this point there is nobody over in China that can work in CRK's tolerance levels. ;)

No they can't make one even close to 98% of what a CRK is, that's certain people's pipe dream..

Taiwan? Yeah maybe......
 
bodog said:
I'd have to agree with you but I'd also have to leave in the possibility that maybe they produced a knife that is 98% as good. The reason it's dangerous is because for most people 98% of a CRK is damned good. At a fraction of the cost it IS a threat. If it wasn't a true threat then people wouldn't truly think twice about it. They may say something but really, they wouldn't care. But no one knows unless testing is done and if the tests are done and the clone wins for most practical purposes, would you publish the results?
Click to expand...

I had one of the clones here years ago, it was garbage....
 
Ankerson said:
At this point there is nobody over in China that can work in CRK's tolerance levels. ;)

No they can't make one even close to 98% of what a CRK is, that's certain people's pipe dream..

Taiwan? Yeah maybe......
Click to expand...

No, but in the next decade it may very well happen. With 3D printing, advances in 3D milling, etc., it won't take long. Hell, right now the technology is there to manipulate and arrange specific atoms when building something. It's on a small level and ridiculously expensive, but then again, so we're cell phones and computers at one time. If we wait until the Chinese catch up in that area we'll be done as a viable first world country.

And I have to assume that if China can build quantum computers, and they can, that they can build high tolerance knives, too. If the demand is there. And the demand WILL be there if the market prices are low enough. Doesn't matter if any of us think it's right or wrong.
 
bodog said:
No, but in the next decade it may very well happen. With 3D printing, advances in 3D milling, etc., it won't take long. Hell, right now the technology is there to manipulate and arrange specific atoms when building something. It's on a small level and ridiculously expensive, but then again, so we're cell phones and computers at one time. If we wait until the Chinese catch up in that area we'll be done as a viable first world country.
Click to expand...

That will be years off, maybe more than a decade or two....
 
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