A.G. Russell Traditonal Knives: Should They Be Made In The USA Or Not?

Let me ask this question to those who would like to see AG offer more USA made traditionals.

If the 3 traditionals (that were discussed in the original post that this thread was split from ) were made in the USA , would you buy them for double the price of what the china made ones sell for ?

If they were offered side by side , with one being China made @ $65 and the other being USA made @ $130 ( or more ) , only difference was country of origin , quality was exactly the same , how many of you support him by buying the USA made version ? STeven Garsson would follow thru , I have no doubt about that , how many others would ?

My thought is AG knows the market , knows the trends , knows what will sell for how much. He is providing great quality using knives for a great price.... and they are selling pretty darn well it appears. :)

a question like that will get you positive answers because no one is obligated to actually make a purchase so it's very much like a thread that asks "who would be interested in a xxxxx limited run", plenty of people will chime in with "I will buy one", but when it comes time to put the money down, rarely are the numbers sold as high as the positive response.
 
I agree AG , I have held a Case Bose and a AG Saddlehorn side by side , the AG was $65 , the Case was $284 , the Case Bose in my opinion was not $220 nicer.

My question was more to make people think to themselves where they draw the line , at what $$$ amount , keep doing what you are doing AG , many of us appreciate it.
 
If the playing field were level regarding the costs to manufacture the same product, then by all means I'd consider it, but the Chinese companies can produce things on the cheap because they have none of the added costs that other manufactures have regarding the health and well being of their employees, safeguarding of their environment (industrial discharge in your drinking water anyone?), and cost of goods (due to huge government subsidies) among other things. They can undercut pricing on goods and flood the market until the competition folds, knife manufacturers know this all too well. Hell they can build a knife for what our companies would pay for the handle covers alone, how fair is that?
 
Too late for made in (insert your country)

Economics and and politics fixed all that up a long time ago and no body will unscramble that egg ever again.

The mushroom you live under got a whole lot bigger and you will have to get used to it.:)
 
If the 3 traditionals (that were discussed in the original post that this thread was split from ) were made in the USA , would you buy them for double the price of what the china made ones sell for ?

If they were offered side by side , with one being China made @ $65 and the other being USA made @ $130 ( or more ) , only difference was country of origin , quality was exactly the same , how many of you support him by buying the USA made version ? STeven Garsson would follow thru , I have no doubt about that , how many others would ?
I for one would pay double or more for the USA equivalent and have. I have purchased Chinese knives before and never will again regardless of quality or price. Germany, Japan, Taiwan, Swiss, British, sure but not China.
 
You CAN change the status quo....and you know it.

Tell you what amigo, you get your patterns US made, and I'll buy 5 of each one....hopefully this sets a precedent.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

The sad fact is that I cannot buy the same quality by paying twice what i am selling these knives for. As someone else has said, here on BF "compare with Case-Bose" where the price is 5-6 times. This kind of thread is always worthwhile because someone will order just to be able to show what junk it has to be and then they provide the kind of thread this one was cut out of.
 
They can undercut pricing on goods and flood the market until the competition folds, knife manufacturers know this all too well. Hell they can build a knife for what our companies would pay for the handle covers alone, how fair is that?

Is business ever fair ? That goes for all products. I don't think any of us would be posting right now if it weren't for China made items. How many parts in your pc/laptop are US made ? It's all just business , put out a better product for a better price = sales. :)

Interesting discussion points here......
 
I don't know Mr. Russell personally, although we met years ago when the Knife Guild was just getting started, but one thing I do know, he knows knives, and knows the knife business. If he could sell US made Traditional knives at a price point that would both make him money, provide a high quality product to the consumer, and provide enough volume of sales, there is not one sliver of doubt in my mind that he would gladly do so.

I think I'll buy a few of those chinese made knives just to show him my appreciation for offering a very fine knife at a very fine price.
 
STeven,

I admire your tenacity & totally respect your opinion. :thumbup:

I still personally try to purchase USA made whenever practical.

However I must humbly offer you a correction or 2:

now I can't remember, but did the prototype knives in this series also get made by the Chinese?

No, no that's right, they were done by American craftsman.

Actually they did make the prototypes, & then remade them & then improved them some more; all at A.G.'s behest.
All we ever sent them was our CAD files.

I fail to see the fundamental humanity in the Chinese Government or their ownership of most factories in China....and I don't want to support it. That is my choice.

Actually no!
Every Cutlery Factory in China I have visited is owned by individuals.
I cannot speak for other industries or Factories that I am unfamiliar with.

Your distaste with the Chinese Government however, there is a topic I would buy you several drinks while we solved the World's problems! :thumbup::thumbup:
 
Mr Gibbs,

I feel I must offer you a correction as well:

"Jack of all Knives....
Master of None!
"

That couldn't be further from the truth. ;):D:D


I'm curious, what kind of equipment are those cutlers using over there? Is it more or less mechanized/computerized , or do they still do a lot of hands on work? I've been wondering about that for a while, especially since everything else over there seems to have been so modernized in recent years.
 
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Mr Gibbs,

I feel I must offer you a correction as well:

"Jack of all Knives....
Master of None!
"

That couldn't be further from the truth. ;):D:D


I'm curious, what kind of equipment are those cutlers using over there? Is it more or less mechanized/computerized , or do they still do a lot of hands on work? I've been wondering about that for a while, especially since everything else over there seems to have been so modernized in recent years.

Interesting question!

As everywhere, there is significant diversity.
There are some larger factories that can produce significant volume at impressive prices.
They have CNC grinders much like the rest of the planets Cutlery industry.
Most of those may produce the type of quality one would expect to find at gas stations & flea markets.
Don't blame them, someone over here ordered knives like that. :p

At the other end of the spectrum is "cottage industry".
Very small companies, or families, that specialize in one product or even one operation (mold a handle or heat treat a part).

If A.G.'s makers do not have a capability that is needed, then the job can be subcontracted to a different industry.
For example, most of the folding knife components are cut with wire EDMs by tool makers.

I can tell you from experience that making knives for A.G. Russell is challenging, having done so at Camillus Cutlery Company for many years.
He wants it better & is prepared to pay for it.
It pushes a Company to improve quality.
I can honestly state that making knives for A.G. improved Camillus Cutlery quality.
I know enough folks in the remaining American knife factories to confidently tell you that was NOT a unique occurrence.

Ladies & Gentleman,
I understand most of the emotions & realities of Chinese imports & the current status of American industry, having been astonishingly fortunate enough to have been salvaged from the smoldering ruins of Camillus Cutlery by a single phone call from A.G.

I so respect our FREEDOM TO CHOOSE what knives to spend one's hard earned & ruinously taxed income on.

However, I ask you honestly:

If A.G. never had a single knife made in China, how much would that have affected the supply of gas station, flea market & Big Box store knives?

Please someone name me an American knife maker that has lost a job because A.G. decided to risk seeing if he could get some high quality knives made his way in China?
Don't bother bring up Camillus or Schrade, as I know for an absolute fact that he tried to buy more knives from both when he heard there were problems.
A.G has knives made for him by American Factories that do not make other peoples knives.

Is there a credible knife Factory in America that wanted to make knives for A.G. that has been denied that opportunity?

Is there a Custom Knife Maker amongst us that has never received any advice requested of A.G.?

In all due respect, some amongst us might not like the State of the Industry, but in my humble opinion, A.G. is not the one to kick for it.
 
Here is an interesting excerpt from a speech that our Reserve Bank Governor gave in New York just recently.

“The share of US imports coming from China has increased from about 3 per cent in 1990 to 19 per cent today. That is a very large increase, though it appears to offset a decline in the shares coming from Japan and other east Asian countries: imports from Asia as a whole make up about the same share of US imports today – about a third – as they did 20 years ago. Probably what is happening here is that China has displaced other Asian countries to some extent as a source of finished products, including by becoming the final point of assembly for many manufactured items constructed from components sourced all over Asia.

“Even more interesting is the fact that the United States sells a higher share of its exports to China than to any other single nation apart from Canada and Mexico, its two North American Free Trade Agreement partners.”


You can see the whole article here: http://www.smh.com.au/business/rba-to-usa-wake-up-yer-drongos-20110415-1dgye.html

The way business is done has changed and there simply is no room for National Patriotism unless you want to exclude yourself from a large chunk of the world or be one of the few die hards hanging on to what once was.
 
The way business is done has changed and there simply is no room for National Patriotism unless you want to exclude yourself from a large chunk of the world or be one of the few die hards hanging on to what once was.

I have NO problem with being in either category. FTW, giant1, FTW.

Phil Gibbs, very much look forward to drinking with you at Blade if you have time.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Sure...it is something that cannot be proven one way or the other...it's an opinion.....what do you have?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

They've built a successful business producing overseas made blades that are quality... they have a workforce that's trained and an established firm that knows what they're doing... the fact that they're profitable means the market place has dictated that it doesn't really matter. I don't have a horse in the race but I'm sure they wouldn't produce blades overseas if it wasn't worth it to them.
 
They've built a successful business producing overseas made blades that are quality... they have a workforce that's trained and an established firm that knows what they're doing... the fact that they're profitable means the market place has dictated that it doesn't really matter. I don't have a horse in the race but I'm sure they wouldn't produce blades overseas if it wasn't worth it to them.

A.G. Russell has knives made and sold knives from just about every knife-producing company in the world; U.S., Germany, Switzerland, England, (probably) Ireland, Japan, China, Taiwan, Canada.....this is not the point.

A.G. continues to be relevant, and depending upon how much EFFORT he wants to put into something, can have knives made just about anywhere. This thread was not started as a kick to A.G. or his business practices, it was more of a personal feeling and personal request that he take another look at doing this project in the U.S.A. rather than farming it out to China.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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