About the hate for Survive! Knives.

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unwisefool said:
I wouldn't. God forbid you have a problem. Here's a Carothers basic field knife, not even their top Signature line and it's fantastic quality. Also, I know that I can trust them to deliver knives.

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Plus, unlike Guy's desperately broke ass company, you can order CPK's in Delta 3V.

For those not in the know, S?K stopped offering knives in D3V because Guy needs to put that extra money per blade he sends to Peters in his pocket instead. Also, if you're one of those people still waiting who ordered a D3V knife from him years ago? Sorry, too bad, you won't get what you paid for.
 
Quiet said:
Combine that with the fact that you're buying a knife that's not actually created by the person selling it,
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I had actually forgot that part. I may just sell it when it arrives.. my stupid ass traded down hard-core. I'm actually kinda embarrassed about what I gave up just to try this thing out..

I remember now that's one of the main reasons I even asked for a refund in the first place. Shit when I asked for a refund I had forgot I even put in the order being as it was like a year and a half later. I need to get a headscan.. my memory is garbage. Drank it away in strange ports haha. Then smoked what was left when I came home 😂.

Now I'm calmed down and only remember key moments of strange bar fights and a lot of dark neon filled rooms.. oh and fist pumping was popular too (I blame those orange midgets that had a show about them drinking to blackout daily.. I forget the name)
 
kane22 said:
Actually Survive brought everything in-house last year. The only things they're not making are the crews, and sheaths. Peters does the HT. The only knives that were upgraded to magna cut were the ones ordered in 20CV, not the 3V knives. It looks like they may be finally catching up on the back orders...I hope. I absolutely agree the wait times are bad, but I've gotten every knife I've ever ordered. The quality is amazing.
The hate on here is strong, and I get it. A 6 month wait shouldn't turn into 6 years. If things are running smoothly now, and they get caught up, I hope they go to smaller batch runs. Something they can turn around in a reasonable time.
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I think this maybe gets to the crux of the matter. They need to stop doing "PreOrders." That's BS. After reading everything everyone has wrote here, I now agree PreOrder is absolute crap. If they actually have all of the manufacturing set up now and working well, they need to do production runs, and start selling only already made, in stock items.
 
tinfoil hat timmy said:
just because HUGE company ''b'' does it, does that make it ok for the company in question to do it?
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No. But like I said or at least alluded to in my original post, we live in a completely corrupt world, and completely corrupt society now, so if corrupt practices become the standard way of doing business, is it possible for an honest and moral man to start a new honest and moral business? Well yes, but it is much harder to do. That seems to be what happens, if corruption is left unchecked for too long, it just spirals downward and there's no good way out. That's where we are now. Government, and corporations have just lied and lied for decades, about absolutely everything, have been absolute scum in all respect, and have become wealthy beyond imagination. Microsoft and Apple come immediately to mind.

ETA: and what's sad about this, truly sad, is that when I see all these companies, and governments, being completely, horribly corrupt and immoral, it doesn't even phase me any more, I just think it's normal. I barely even notice now. And so everyone in this thread has reminded me again, that was Survive! was doing was definitely pushing to the immoral/wrong side of things, and I wasn't really registering it.

ETA2: Here's an example: Wyze security cameras. Wyze was paying a small company that came up with an amazing, unique, tiny bit of code that would fit into their cheap security cameras for "person detection" which would then send an alert to the camera owner that a person was detected. Wyze was doing great, selling their cameras for cheap, so people didn't have to pay monthly fees to some giant corp like ADT for security monitoring. Then Apple swooped in, bought the code, and buried it. And so Wyze, and all the people with the cameras, were screwed, with zero recourse. So Wyze initially tried to do person detection on big servers over IP, but it was costing them a lot of money and they were starting to go under, so Wyze got a new CEO who started to do LOTS of scummy things to try to trick people into paying for subscriptions. They're still trying to do it, and become scummier by the day. So corrupt, horrible, evil Apple, has turned a once good moral company, doing good things, into immoral scum. Corruption spreads.
 
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Quiet said:
No, like most car manufacturers and dealers, they take a down payment or deposit. This is what's usually considered a "good faith" down payment. And actually, Randall Made Knives does this. They tell you up front that it's going to be years before you see your knife, and they charge you $50 up front as a "good faith" down payment on that knife.
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I agree it would have been better if they would have gone to something like Randall does, once they realized they weren't going to be able to produce the numbers they thought.
If it were me, I would have been getting the oldest orders out first. They jump all around in the production runs. I like their knives though, so I wait.
 
io333 said:
... have you ever marveled at a really old, original condition car with low miles, say 20 or 30 or 40 years old, in perfect showroom condition, and you're just like "wow, amazing!" I wish I could have that car? Or gun like an unfired 70s Python, or whatever the thing is? Maybe a centuries old violin? Well, someone had to take care of it and preserve it that whole time. I'm one of those people that takes care of those things, and then tries to pass the thing on to someone who will also preserve the thing, perhaps for centuries... milennia? Most of the things get used, a little, occasionally. Most people feel like you do, and that's great. Things are just things, mostly, and ought to be used and the owner should have fun with them, and ultimately some owner down the line will probably just trash the thing as originally intended. But, If there weren't a few like me, there would be no more Giuseppe Guarneris... or AC Cobras. But the mentality still considers every well made object, to see if maybe it should be in the "maybe this thing should just be preserved, for at least a little while." Yeah, a $300 knife with a plastic handle ain't no Strad, I get that.
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If it's an extremely rare item or museum piece, then I can understand preserving it. But I don't extend that to a car that is available to the average person. You can drive it without abusing it. Guns? I'm 100% certain that if I own it, I'm going to take it shooting. I also don't place any knife I own in the showpiece category. Obviously, I don't use swords in my daily life, but I use almost every other knife when possible.
 
io333 said:
No. But like I said or at least alluded to in my original post, we live in a completely corrupt world, and completely corrupt society now, so if corrupt practices become the standard way of doing business, is it possible for an honest and moral man to start a new honest and moral business? Well yes, but it is much harder to do. That seems to be what happens, if corruption is left unchecked for too long, it just spirals downward and there's no good way out. That's where we are now. Government, and corporations have just lied and lied for decades, about absolutely everything, have been absolute scum in all respect, and have become wealthy beyond imagination. Microsoft and Apple come immediately to mind.

ETA: and what's sad about this, truly sad, is that when I see all these companies, and governments, being completely, horribly corrupt and immoral, it doesn't even phase me any more, I just think it's normal. I barely even notice now. And so everyone in this thread has reminded me again, that was Survive! was doing was definitely pushing to the immoral/wrong side of things, and I wasn't really registering it.
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Well, that is getting pretty far past the specific point in this thread, namely S?K's poor, fraudulent business practices. Also, make no mistake, they have almost certainly been hurt financially by being kicked off this forum, and all the threads here that lay out their issues, easily found on any search engine. For example, if you Google "Survive! Knives issues", the thread that resulted in their subforum being closed is the fifth one down. The BBB Page is the first link, incidentally. I would say that their number of preorders today is much smaller than it might have been, had all these issues and fraudulent activities not been brought to light, and remain illuminated thanks to threads like this one. That's a positive thing!
 
io333 said:
I think this maybe gets to the crux of the matter. They need to stop doing "PreOrders." That's BS. After reading everything everyone has wrote here, I now agree PreOrder is absolute crap. If they actually have all of the manufacturing set up now and working well, they need to do production runs, and start selling only already made, in stock items.
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It's nice to be able to order the exact steel, handle, finish, sheath that you want, but they definitely need to streamline things somehow going forward.
 
kane22 said:
I agree it would have been better if they would have gone to something like Randall does, once they realized they weren't going to be able to produce the numbers they thought.
If it were me, I would have been getting the oldest orders out first. They jump all around in the production runs. I like their knives though, so I wait.
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Well, that's the issue. They "jump around", because they have to come up with new products in order to get in new preorders, so they can order the steel and other materials to satisfy previously submitted orders. Also, Guy should have taken a friggin' business class so he'd know how to price his products. If you charge say, $250 for a knife, then you should know what that money goes to. A VERY high level example might be:

$250 Product Retail Cost
- $43 materials to create said product
- $104 for things like this month's power bill for the shop, shop rent bill, a portion of the pay you pay workers (if any), and so on.
- $50 investment back into the business for things like belts for the grinder, maybe a new batch of steel, etc.
- $53 Business revenue/profit

It would have been super easy to figure out a realworld number, instead of what probably ACTUALLY happens, wherein they open a preorder, and over some window of time, collect a few to several hundred thousand dollars, and then they use that money on things that aren't the above. Home mortgage, personal bills, groceries, etc. Whatever's left probably did go to keeping the shop space open, and paying the one or two employees they have. However, then they find themselves broke with no money to be able to order knife-making materials or shop incidentals, so oops! Need to gin up a new "design" and get that preorder mill going again so we can buy the things to make that last batch of knives! This is why they suck, and it's why their wait times are so horrendous. They don't actually start work on these batches until they've blown through the initial preorder income, and then decided "Whelp, guess we'd better produce these knives."

It's been said in every single thread about S?K for the past few years, in that any knifemaker will tell you: "The hardest knife to make is one that's already paid for."
 
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