Another Paypal Discussion

I just got off the phone with PayPal. Here's what they told me.

If PayPal is an available payment option, a seller may not increase his price simply to cover the fees. Likewise, if PayPal is an available payment option, a seller may not offer a discount for using a payment method other than PayPal. And, of course, the gift option is a no-no for the sale of goods. Having said that, PayPal recognizes that these rules are difficult to enforce and action would likely be taken only if someone complained about the seller's practices. In other words, there are no PayPal police cruising around looking for violators.

Hope that helps!
 
uofaengr said:
So me, not being a business, if I wanted to sell my baseball card collection to my friend in another city, and I say to him "Hey, if you want to mail me a check that's cool, or if you'd like to pay me via PayPal goods I'll be glad to do that for you also." and he says "Nah, I don't need your baseball cards right away, I'll just mail this check, I can wait." So you're saying because I told him I'd be willing to take his money via Paypal, by some mystic power of the socialist universe, I owe Paypal 2.9% plus $0.30 of my selling price to him?? :confused:
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I think in that case using gift is fine he's your friend. The problem is when you constantly use gift as a way to get over on PayPal and fees to do the same. But this argument is getting old and if you guys start arguing between each other the Mods are just gonna close it.
 
bld522 said:
I just got off the phone with PayPal. Here's what they told me.

If PayPal is an available payment option, a seller may not increase his price simply to cover the fees. Likewise, if PayPal is an available payment option, a seller may not offer a discount for using a payment method other than PayPal. Having said that, PayPal recognizes that these rules are difficult to enforce and action would likely be taken only if someone complained about the seller's practices.

Hope that helps!
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And how is anyone going to know I'm charging 105 instead of 100 to make up for the fee? I guess when NSA is done developing the technology to use our webcams to read our minds while typing for sale ads, PayPal will be first on board?
 
bld522 said:
I just got off the phone with PayPal. Here's what they told me.

If PayPal is an available payment option, a seller may not increase his price simply to cover the fees. Likewise, if PayPal is an available payment option, a seller may not offer a discount for using a payment method other than PayPal. And, of course, the gift option is a no-no for the sale of goods. Having said that, PayPal recognizes that these rules are difficult to enforce and action would likely be taken only if someone complained about the seller's practices. In other words, there are no PayPal police cruising around looking for violators.

Hope that helps!
Click to expand...

And where is that in the TOS, please?
 
LEGION 12 said:
I think in that case using gift is fine he's your friend. The problem is when you constantly use gift as a way to get over on PayPal and fees to do the same. But this argument is getting old and if you guys start arguing between each other the Mods are just gonna close it.
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Nope I'm not talking about using PayPal. I'm talking about a personal check. The previous comment was worded to make it sound like PayPal has some right to claim a few dollars out of every sale I make just because I have a PayPal account and accepted a different form of payment.
 
Thomas Linton said:
And where is that in the TOS, please?
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It's not. By PayPal's own admission, we're dealing in a gray area here . . . particularly with respect to providing discounts for NOT using PayPal as a payment option. There is some verbage in the TOS regarding not charging a buyer more to use PayPal than you would to cover a separate handling fee. They were supposed to e-mail that section of the TOS to me. I haven't received it yet, but I was aware that the rule existed.
 
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Don't use PayPal my friend the only time I will post PayPal only is when because I now have a I need this gear now ofobia disease. Yea made that one up. But when it comes down to it a money order will work and a check if I know the person.
 
bld522 said:
I just got off the phone with PayPal. Here's what they told me.

If PayPal is an available payment option, a seller may not increase his price simply to cover the fees. Likewise, if PayPal is an available payment option, a seller may not offer a discount for using a payment method other than PayPal. And, of course, the gift option is a no-no for the sale of goods. Having said that, PayPal recognizes that these rules are difficult to enforce and action would likely be taken only if someone complained about the seller's practices. In other words, there are no PayPal police cruising around looking for violators.

Hope that helps!
Click to expand...

Not only does this not help, but to me, it seems it does more to confuse newer members or those who less than well-informed about PayPal. What you are stating makes perfect sense if you have a PayPal merchant account, a PayPal store, or run a retail/semi-retail business that just accepts (PayPal). That should not apply to the casual seller here on BF. The casual seller here is selling a personal item. Often times, it means selling at a loss over the cost of the item when purchased new. Other times, the sale is purely for profit. Regardless, it's still much like a garage sale. There are no set prices, no MAAPs or MSRPs on the items. The seller has to decide what price is being asked. Much goes into determining that price as well as how payment will be received. Just because the seller has a PayPal account, the seller is in no way obligated to accept payment via PayPal. Many, in determining the listing price will consider the original price of the knife, overall condition of the knife, and "actual expenses involved in selling the knife". Part of those expenses are shipping and PayPal fees. The seller then sets the price accordingly. People who think that PayPal fees are not a big consideration are kidding themselves. HOWEVER, since these are individual sales .... the price is what the seller sets. Buyers can take it or leave it. NOTHING, in terms of price, is regulated by manufacturers, nor controlled by PayPal. Offering a discount for one payment method over PayPal is not controlled by PayPal in these cases. Furthermore, offering a discount for another method over PayPal could very well be for reasons other than fees. An example could be that the seller does not want to be be in a position to have a sale disputed by PayPal. So, while your post about what PayPal told you over the phone could be viewed as logical for PayPal merchants, it has very little to do with the majority of "private/non-dealer" sales here. If I am wrong, someone needs to show me something in black and white direct from PayPal about this, because it makes no sense at all.
 
No if you get a personal check from a friend you don't have to give PayPal a percent, but you can give me $5 every time you write a check if you want to. :D
 
uofaengr said:
So me, not being a business, if I wanted to sell my baseball card collection to my friend in another city, and I say to him "Hey, if you want to mail me a check that's cool, or if you'd like to pay me via PayPal goods I'll be glad to do that for you also." and he says "Nah, I don't need your baseball cards right away, I'll just mail this check, I can wait." So you're saying because I told him I'd be willing to take his money via Paypal, by some mystic power of the socialist universe, I owe Paypal 2.9% plus $0.30 of my selling price to him?? :confused:
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No, they're saying you can't ask one price if paid by PayPal, and a lower price if paid by some other method. If you tell your friend "$100 for my cards paid through PP, but if you send a check, make it $95," then you're violating the TOS.

Now, if you negotiate with a buyer and end up at a lower price and change your mind about offering PayPal...

Thomas Linton said:
Total inability to enforce aside, "rules" that PayPal makes up on the fly are not part of the contract.
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Read the TOS, as I'm sure their lawyers put some clause in there about PayPal getting to interpret it as they see fit.
 
1. You cannot "interpret" black into white.

2. Ambiguities in a contract are read against the author of the ambiguous language since the author was in a position to clearly express the intention.

3. Lots of clear contractual language is illegal. Why try? One born every minute and all that.
 
What always confuses me about these discussions is the level of time and effort people put into looking after the interests of PayPal. Trust me, they are more then capable of looking into their interests.

That said, why is there so little discussion about the trust element. In order for one to use Gift one has to absolutely and explicitly trust his seller otherwise its a very unwise bet with little to no remedy.
 
ooitzoo said:
What always confuses me about these discussions is the level of time and effort people put into looking after the interests of PayPal. Trust me, they are more then capable of looking into their interests.

That said, why is there so little discussion about the trust element. In order for one to use Gift one has to absolutely and explicitly trust his seller otherwise its a very unwise bet with little to no remedy.
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Seriously , you all work for paypal?? They double deep with ebay and now you all do their police work for them , lmao
 
Seriously , you all work for paypal?? They double deep with ebay and now you all do their police work for them , lmao
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great point, why.. when i spoke to paypal and bill me later sat. a.m., not saying any sites i deal with, and asking about this, they transfered me to their security dept. that dept told me every transaction I had recently done, at least 50 per month buying knives and they questioned every "gift" i had made. 30 mins later my account was blocked, no lie ! It took another 15 mins to get it cleared and they(security dept) explained that they bust/delete paypal accounts daily for things we are speaking of. they also said that the only reason they do non ebay service is the money, ha ha, and they also walked me over the part of message they send to you saying you have money that asks if you want to notify the IRS !! The IRS gets a copy of every paypal transaction, and when you print a shipping label and pay via paypal, which I do, you have now involved another part of the government in fraud, if you used "gift".

No one has to understand this, call paypal or bill me later , ask about "gift" options and see what happens.

now to rio's comment, paypal said they get reports by the thousands from competing dealers and site store rating each other out.. it's not that paypal sucks, or our members who charge a percent suck, sucks that no rules here stops it or could stop it. but no one has to do anything thing here, you can log out anytime. best members and best knives always on Bladeforums. Just look who, what and from where things show up in the exchange.
 
I know this has been talked to death by page 11, but my experience with paypal on Bladeforums is as follows. I have excellent feedback, I know I will follow through with the transaction 100%. I send a message to the buyer asking them which method they're comfortable paying. I'm 100% ok with paying fees, if the buyer would like that added protection. When I am buying knives, I also take a look through the sellers feedback. If their feedback is recent, with 100% in a handful of transactions, I feel comfortable paying via gift. This is for somewhat cheaper knives though, I'd be much more careful spending more than $200 via gift.

Whether it's unethical to "scam" paypal isn't really important to me. They're a company I'd rather not do business with, but seems to be the only option nowadays other than MO's.
 
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