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c00per said:
I'm not sure everybody is completely understanding what Phil is trying to say here. All he is trying to say is that this seller got impatient and rude and if you do not want to deal with impatient and rude people, don't sell the guy a knife. If you are going to be rude, then don't buy a knife from Phil...it's quite simple really.

Phil never once blamed the buyer for anything other then being rude. He wasn't trying to come across as the good guy, Phil completely admitted that he was in the wrong with the delay in the shipment and tried to make it up to the buyer in any reasonable way possible. All he has stated in this thread was that after he offered a refund, or offered for the buyer to suggest an appropriate compensation for his wasted time, the buyer was condescending and rude. Not only that, but after Phil did send the package, the buyer continued with the same attitude. Not something I'd enjoy dealing with either, if I had the choice.

There was no reason for the buyer to become rude. It's fine if he was short with Phil, or displeased, but Phil made it clear that he was doing everything he could to make up for his mistake and the buyer continues to be offensive.

So Phil was obviously in the wrong with the shipping delay but these things happen sometimes, unavoidable circumstances occur that makes that knife sale drop a few rungs in your list of priorities. Rude, abrasive behavior on the other hand is avoidable, and in this situation was completely unwarranted.

The good, bad, the ugly forum is a place to share your experiences. Some people will be greatful to know that the buyer acted in this way, and others will be happy to know that Phil is acting how he is now. If somebody avoids either one of those people based on this thread then it served a purpose and has every right to be in the GB&U.
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Very well said. :thumbup:
 
c00per said:
Rude, abrasive behavior on the other hand is avoidable, and in this situation was completely unwarranted.
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I agree completely. I've read this thread twice in it's entirety just to make sure I wasn't missing anything. I did miss little stuff here and there. Both parties are due some blame but I think the majority of it belongs to Phil. The buyer did make some snide remarks. The worst of which, so far as I can tell because of editing, was when he called Phil a 'petulant child'. While that is indeed condescending, telling some one to F himself and using other profane words so liberally is rude and abrasive behavior. And the petulant child remark came after the F you. Not suprised this deal went bad. What I don't understand is how Phil and a number of other recent bad dealers (buyers and sellers) still have 100% i-trader ratings when their deals have gone horribly wrong. Makes me doubt the accuracy of the i-trader system and appreciate G,B,&U all the more. Take from this thread what you will folks. And respect the G,B,&U.

On a different note, I want to say to Phil that I hope that he is able to cope with/resolve his personal emergency. It does sound as if it was very serious and I don't doubt him for a second. I will say a prayer and send up some smoke. -DT
 
FWIW i have always liked phil and think of him as an honest man.

that said when i read the 1st post in this thread i thought "this is gonna get ugly" and "phil is in the wrong on this".

why?

because when you send funds for something and dont get your stuff for several weeks a lotta folks are gonna be pissed off, imho it doesnt matter WTF is going on on the sellers end if ya go several weeks and dont get your stuff ya quite possibly might get pissed, plain & simple, and if the seller has something going on and has delays on shipping he is the one who should be in contact with the buyer and he should be saying he is sorry, he also should expect the buyer to be at least a little irate, people want the stuff they buy and they want it in a timely fashion, several weeks without shipping is not in a timely fashion.

imho phil owes the guy an apology and needs to edit the title of this thread.

he also shouldnt have posted the guys personal info, that was wrong.

hey, i still love ya like a sister phil but in this case ya are in the wrong.
 
I respect that Phil has been a part of this community for many years and I would have no problem purchasing a knife from him in the future. But I think Phil is in the wrong in this case. The buyer was very patient, after 2 weeks I would be livid.
 
Parker said:
Phil, my dislike of you is not a problem. Not in the slightest.
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Yes, clearly it is, and it is indeed your issue.

hotrodKelley said:
I told you Phil, you should have kept this locked.
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Yes, and others complained when it was locked. Ultimatley I'm going to do what I believe is right regardless of your opinion.

dttomcat said:
Could you explain how it was that he "chose to treat [you] in a disrespectful, obnoxious fashion".
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The evidence is right there in the e-mails I quoted. If you don't share my assessment of his behavior, that's fine.

SIFU1A said:
FWIW i have always liked phil and think of him as an honest man.

that said when i read the 1st post in this thread i thought "this is gonna get ugly" and "phil is in the wrong on this".

why?

because when you send funds for something and dont get your stuff for several weeks a lotta folks are gonna be pissed off, imho it doesnt matter WTF is going on on the sellers end if ya go several weeks and dont get your stuff ya quite possibly might get pissed, plain & simple, and if the seller has something going on and has delays on shipping he is the one who should be in contact with the buyer and he should be saying he is sorry, he also should expect the buyer to be at least a little irate, people want the stuff they buy and they want it in a timely fashion, several weeks without shipping is not in a timely fashion.

imho phil owes the guy an apology and needs to edit the title of this thread.

he also shouldnt have posted the guys personal info, that was wrong.

hey, i still love ya like a sister phil but in this case ya are in the wrong.
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Well, I appreciate that; I just don't agree. I gave this careful consideration and even reconsidered it after posting it, but ultimately, I stand by it. The guy was wrong to be rude to me. I tried to compensate him and I took responsibility for the delay, but that wasn't good enough for him, and that crosses a line with me.

mongomondo said:
I respect that Phil has been a part of this community for many years and I would have no problem purchasing a knife from him in the future. But I think Phil is in the wrong in this case. The buyer was very patient, after 2 weeks I would be livid.
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I don't believe he was "patient" at all. He got the knife he purchased, and more, in the condition described, and at no time was any shipping method or time specified. Still, I would have gladly compensated him had he only been respectful in his communication with me. When he chose to be condescending, the relationship changed, and he lost any consideration he might have otherwise received.


c00per said:
I'm not sure everybody is completely understanding what Phil is trying to say here. All he is trying to say is that this seller got impatient and rude and if you do not want to deal with impatient and rude people, don't sell the guy a knife. If you are going to be rude, then don't buy a knife from Phil...it's quite simple really.

Phil never once blamed the buyer for anything other then being rude. He wasn't trying to come across as the good guy, Phil completely admitted that he was in the wrong with the delay in the shipment and tried to make it up to the buyer in any reasonable way possible. All he has stated in this thread was that after he offered a refund, or offered for the buyer to suggest an appropriate compensation for his wasted time, the buyer was condescending and rude. Not only that, but after Phil did send the package, the buyer continued with the same attitude. Not something I'd enjoy dealing with either, if I had the choice.

There was no reason for the buyer to become rude. It's fine if he was short with Phil, or displeased, but Phil made it clear that he was doing everything he could to make up for his mistake and the buyer continues to be offensive.

So Phil was obviously in the wrong with the shipping delay but these things happen sometimes, unavoidable circumstances occur that makes that knife sale drop a few rungs in your list of priorities. Rude, abrasive behavior on the other hand is avoidable, and in this situation was completely unwarranted.

The good, bad, the ugly forum is a place to share your experiences. Some people will be greatful to know that the buyer acted in this way, and others will be happy to know that Phil is acting how he is now. If somebody avoids either one of those people based on this thread then it served a purpose and has every right to be in the GB&U.
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Yes! That is it exactly. I'm glad someone finally understands.
 
The only time I had a dealing here that could have gone sour, was when I traded and the postal service lost my trade I shipped and I got the other trade right away.
As soon as I found out my knife was not being delivered as fast as it should have been I took a picture of the insurance ticket showing the date shipped and the person's name, zip code and city. I sent a PM with the picture, as well as stayed in contact with my trading partner regularly.
I asked to hang onto the other trade for the 21 days before I could file a claim (in case the package was found). As soon as the waiting period was over I filed my claim and returned the person's knife at my expense.
It was nearly 60 days before I ever received a check for my lost knife.
This person was very nice about the entire ordeal and patiently waited for me to straighten it out.
I really appreciated that and he would have been rude and belligerent it would have caused a gone bad trade to be even worse.
I think people here that buy, sell or trade need to look at the feedback of whom they are dealing with and take that into consideration before going off half-cocked about anything not going quite as expected.
I'm certain my trading partner took my excellent unblemished score as comforting in his knowledge that I would make the deal right as soon as I could.
 
It is not a "reasoning for my behavior." It is the stated reason I started this thread, and it is consistent with what I have said from the beginning.
 
It is entirely consistent with what I have said from the first post in this thread. That is not "in my mind." It is a fact.
 
c00per said:
I'm not sure everybody is completely understanding what Phil is trying to say here. All he is trying to say is that this seller got impatient and rude and if you do not want to deal with impatient and rude people, don't sell the guy a knife. If you are going to be rude, then don't buy a knife from Phil...it's quite simple really.

Phil never once blamed the buyer for anything other then being rude. He wasn't trying to come across as the good guy, Phil completely admitted that he was in the wrong with the delay in the shipment and tried to make it up to the buyer in any reasonable way possible. All he has stated in this thread was that after he offered a refund, or offered for the buyer to suggest an appropriate compensation for his wasted time, the buyer was condescending and rude. Not only that, but after Phil did send the package, the buyer continued with the same attitude. Not something I'd enjoy dealing with either, if I had the choice.

There was no reason for the buyer to become rude. It's fine if he was short with Phil, or displeased, but Phil made it clear that he was doing everything he could to make up for his mistake and the buyer continues to be offensive.

So Phil was obviously in the wrong with the shipping delay but these things happen sometimes, unavoidable circumstances occur that makes that knife sale drop a few rungs in your list of priorities. Rude, abrasive behavior on the other hand is avoidable, and in this situation was completely unwarranted.

The good, bad, the ugly forum is a place to share your experiences. Some people will be greatful to know that the buyer acted in this way, and others will be happy to know that Phil is acting how he is now. If somebody avoids either one of those people based on this thread then it served a purpose and has every right to be in the GB&U.
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Coop, that's a very well-thought out response, and I'll only add this -

If you do not like (my/) his attitude, you Sit Down, Shut Up and hit Refund. You simply refund the money, and you send a NICE note of apology. You do not have to mean it, but you need to do it if the transaction is so awful that it causes you this sort of pain.

You then keep your little bitch mouth shut about it since YOU caused the situation. You do NOT go around blabbing that the guy your mistake inconvenienced is a bad guy. Read this paragraph a few times, then think about hitting Reply.

I posted this before, and offer it as a map/ plan for dealing with the "poor attitude" of a buyer who's being condescending or a pain in the ass - again, condescending is Opinion, which is often confused with fact in this thread.

It's really very simple - if you do not like dealing with someone, you do not have to. Phil's a reasonably intelligent guy. I've never thought any different than that. If he simply reasoned this out, he would have refunded the money with a nice note apologizing for the inconvenience, and then if the Buyer wanted to post this thread instead of Phil, he'd even be vindicated here. Phil just let his normal Me-First thought processes get in the way and we have this delightful sojourn to entertain us this week.

So while he and he alone is still confusing His Opinion with Fact, the only reason we're having this conversation is Phil Elmore brought this to light as a preemptive strike to preserve his own reputation. He's even constructed another thread to discuss his shipping delays as his issue, and that may have been the correct thing to do instead of this. But he could have simply sent out those emails quietly as well, and if this gent really was under his skin, just refund the money, apologize and keep a copy.

Would this really have been so hard in retrospect?
 
The buyer was offered a refund and refused it.

After his knife was shipped and he was informed that his knife was shipped, he still sent disrespectful e-mail. This, on top of the previous correspondence, was the last straw, and I told him so in no uncertain terms.

It is really very simple.

Go pursue your personal grudge against me in a more appropriate forum, Parker. This is not the place for it.
 
Phil, when you send back a certified check or refund paypal, nothing can be done by the seller to stop this. You just keep copies and move on. You are under no legal nor moral obligation to transact with him. You've made it clear that problem transactions are not what you want, hey life came up and you made the mistake of going forward with this, even when it got ugly. You could have stopped the deal, dealt with the consequences, and moved forward.

Instead you chose the path of the Moral High Road, the Injured Crusader. It is as simple as you make it, but since you've demonstrated yourself to be a drama queen consistently, this is behavior consistent for you,

Plenty of folks are "disrespected" every day. It is part of life. You will constantly, if you pay attention, be told "eff you" by the big bad world. So what? This does not make you SPECIAL. If you don't see this daily, your self-absorbtion needs to be tuned down a little. Do you just go nuts every time a homeless guy asks for change? A kid cuts in front of you inadvertently when you're buying coffee at 7-11? Someone cuts you off in traffic?

You're far to young to have this kind of resentment built up for anyone who disrespects you. So we've got that spectre of "You Need Help." And I'll add Internet Tough Guy to that. Again, spectre of "You Need Help."

Phil, you dug this little hole by yourself, opened it up and offered that you had been grievously wronged, when the guy basically told you that you're full of donkey dung. Move on. Get over it.

So do you have anything new to add here, or will you continue to say the same thing over and over? GBU is the PERFECT place for this little discussion, since this is the Good, the Bad and the Ugly. And you started it out as Ugly, out of moral outrage.

Just so maybe you do not miss this, you could have just done the thread which has you apologizing for your error, you could have just kept it off the net except in a few emails. You could have refunded his money and frankly, there's not a single thing he could have done to legitimately refuse this.

Again, Phil, all you need to do is say "I screwed up and I'm sorry for posting your name here, I'll not do it again" and this goes away into the bowels of BFC. You don't even have to mean it, you can cross your fingers and nobody would know.

Or you can insist you are right and this stays at the top and you keep looking like an idiot and spend time and energy being frustrated with it, because any other way than the one just given you will make you look like an asshat, and there's not a lot you can do to change that.

The masses have spoken, and unlike a lot of places, they're fairly washed here. Educated. Good memories. And we have seen you act like this for a long time.

Welcome to the GBU, Phil.
 
Parker said:
Coop, that's a very well-thought out response, and I'll only add this -

If you do not like (my/) his attitude, you Sit Down, Shut Up and hit Refund. You simply refund the money, and you send a NICE note of apology. You do not have to mean it, but you need to do it if the transaction is so awful that it causes you this sort of pain.

You then keep your little bitch mouth shut about it since YOU caused the situation. You do NOT go around blabbing that the guy your mistake inconvenienced is a bad guy. Read this paragraph a few times, then think about hitting Reply.

I posted this before, and offer it as a map/ plan for dealing with the "poor attitude" of a buyer who's being condescending or a pain in the ass - again, condescending is Opinion, which is often confused with fact in this thread.

It's really very simple - if you do not like dealing with someone, you do not have to. Phil's a reasonably intelligent guy. I've never thought any different than that. If he simply reasoned this out, he would have refunded the money with a nice note apologizing for the inconvenience, and then if the Buyer wanted to post this thread instead of Phil, he'd even be vindicated here. Phil just let his normal Me-First thought processes get in the way and we have this delightful sojourn to entertain us this week.

So while he and he alone is still confusing His Opinion with Fact, the only reason we're having this conversation is Phil Elmore brought this to light as a preemptive strike to preserve his own reputation. He's even constructed another thread to discuss his shipping delays as his issue, and that may have been the correct thing to do instead of this. But he could have simply sent out those emails quietly as well, and if this gent really was under his skin, just refund the money, apologize and keep a copy.

Would this really have been so hard in retrospect?
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Infraction issued. I guess you should have heeded my earlier warning posted in this thread.:mad:
 
I gotta say I was utterly confused after reading the first post in this thread, LOL.
I think Freschlychopped'ses emails were quite polite and nice.
How anyone could read something else from them, I do not understand.

Phil, I think you need to adjust your line, it seems like it's waaaay too easy to step over :)
 
mongomondo said:
I respect that Phil has been a part of this community for many years and I would have no problem purchasing a knife from him in the future. But I think Phil is in the wrong in this case. The buyer was very patient, after 2 weeks I would be livid.
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This is where I am on this on Phil. You ought to just let all this go as it does reflect poorly on you.

I'm sure there are explanations for this as well, but this is the part that leaves me shaking my head.
FreshlyChopped said:
I was certainly angry, but I didn't even express it to Phil until after two weeks of feeling ignored and forgotten, and also discovering what he had been doing with his time since I paid him. You see, after two weeks I was starting wonder about Phil, so I followed the links at the bottom of his posts to his YouTube page, and this is what I saw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaaQ2J7MFhw&feature=channel_page

A three minute hand puppet movie produced by and starring Phil, posted a few days after I had paid him. Hmmm. It was certainly a big slap in the face, and it let me know that his priorities were not in order.
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FreshlyChopped said:
A three minute hand puppet movie produced by and starring Phil, posted a few days after I had paid him. Hmmm. It was certainly a big slap in the face, and it let me know that his priorities were not in order.
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You Sir obviously do not understand the importance of the Silently Muderouse Chicken trilogy:cool::cool:
 
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