BM vs Spydy vs ZT vs CS

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So the blades weaker at the hole? sure that's got nothing to do with the grind and steel selected? I guess you don't remember the H1 blade bent 90 at the hole without breaking?

This is all irrelevant anyways, if your depending on a folder life or death that was probably your first mistake.
 
I own knives from BM, Kershaw and Spyderco, and they are all fine knives, but overall I do prefer Spydercos due to the fact that they just seem to fit my hand better. I also find that the blade hole makes for a knife that is easier to open and gives me opening options (zip tie wave, Spydie drop). As far as the Kershaws are concerned, I find playing with the flipper on the Skyline and OD1 to be addictive, and the blades come razor sharp and are easy to maintain that way.
 
ZippoThisKnifeThat said:
Dig the sarcasm, thanks for the link! Sad day for that spyderco. Also saw on post #20 that you used it to PRY causing it's imminent snap. I mean a knife is for cutting right? Just as you stated "Snapping blades is simple to do ", all you have to do is pry/lever.

Use the right tool for the right job. :thumbup:
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That is not a picture of my knife.

My Mili that broke was tested for aeronautic ability :D.

A knife is for whatever one will use it for.

Sarcasm? Here is sarcasm - Since no-one uses a knife for anything other than cutting, there are no tipped knives to be found and no knives are made with blades thicker than 1/16 inch.
 
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knifenut1013 said:
So the blades weaker at the hole? sure that's got nothing to do with the grind and steel selected? I guess you don't remember the H1 blade bent 90 at the hole without breaking?

This is all irrelevant anyways, if your depending on a folder life or death that was probably your first mistake.
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H1 is a pretty soft metal.

Irrelavant?. I guess so - only when you are proven wrong. You've done that argument before - tsk.
 
orthogonal1 said:
H1 is a pretty soft metal.

Irrelavant?. I guess so - only when you are proven wrong. You've done that argument before - tsk.
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Tougher, less likely to break than many stainless. Op was talking about blades snapping, so it's not irrelevant. Generally the harder the steel, the weaker.
 
Reeper22 said:
Tougher, less likely to break than many stainless. Op was talking about blades snapping, so it's not irrelevant. Generally the harder the steel, the weaker.
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It was "irrelavant" to knifenut1013.

Me, being mechanically inclined, I fully realize material properties and shape properties.

BTW - the inverse relationshape is "hardness" to "toughness" (impact resistance), not "weaker".
 
here we go again the simple fact is the pivot pin will fail long before the blade breaks in a maximum stress situation.really i consider the spydie hole to be one of the most innovative developements in modern cutlery history.i beleive the o.p. should approach his physics professor with the question. he would spend his time better listening to an explanation of stress dynamics from a teacher.
 
DennisStrickland said:
here we go again the simple fact is the pivot pin will fail long before the blade breaks in a maximum stress situation.really i consider the spydie hole to be one of the most innovative developements in modern cutlery history.i beleive the o.p. should approach his physics professor with the question. he would spend his time better listening to an explanation of stress dynamics from a teacher.
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Indeed, also see my post #60. The pivot, or the blade closer to the tip will eventually break - which one first will depend on pivot strength and on the blade steel & geometry used. The Spyderhole area of the blade will almost never break before something else.

I did have that nagging feeling that while the OP asked a question as his first mail, he wasn't actually asking a question...
 
Show me a knife without a hole - and I'll call it a fixed blade. If you want to play 'Rambo', or 'Bear' Grylls, you need a fixed blade.

My self-defender is a lot louder than an edged device... makes a poor pry-bar, too. Knives are tools to me, sorry. Right tool for the right job.

Stainz
 
@ orthogonal: Did you try using another folding knife in the same way as the broken military? I'd be curious as to the result.
 
orthogonal1 said:
It was "irrelavant" to knifenut1013.

Me, being mechanically inclined, I fully realize material properties and shape properties.

BTW - the inverse relationshape is "hardness" to "toughness" (impact resistance), not "weaker".
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Its irrelevant because you should not depend on a folder for life or death in combat like the OP stated.

Why me too, welcome to the club.


Proven wrong? what was I proven wrong on?
 
DennisStrickland said:
here we go again the simple fact is the pivot pin will fail long before the blade breaks in a maximum stress situation.really i consider the spydie hole to be one of the most innovative developements in modern cutlery history.i beleive the o.p. should approach his physics professor with the question. he would spend his time better listening to an explanation of stress dynamics from a teacher.
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Have you tested or even drawn out and calculated the "pivot pin" theory?
 
knifenut1013 said:
Its irrelevant because you should not depend on a folder for life or death in combat like the OP stated.

Why me too, welcome to the club.


Proven wrong? what was I proven wrong on?
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So you deem that one "should not depend on a folder for life or death in combat". Mighty big of you. Why was this supposition not stated in the beginning of your involvement in the thread (followed by your instant withdrawal, of course).

Not sure what "Why me too, welcome to the club." pertains to. If you are alluding to your obviously bigotted attack on the Original Poster for daring to put down the great opening hole, I am not in that club.

Instead, I fully understand that removing material weakens metal structures in general. At worst, I would have simply pointed out that the opening hole hasn't proven to be a problem for most uses of a knife.

"Considering I actually do own millies and enduras and delicas your "thought" that it is weaker is simply that.... a thought.

The hole means nothing is the blade is not thick enough to pry in the first place. But to answer your question yes I would trust my saber ground endura to pry."

Your post.

The hole in the blade does matter - period. There are instances wherein the blade broke at the opening hole as one should fully expect. Stress risers, less material, etc. are well known causes of failure in metal structures.
 
singularity35 said:
@ orthogonal: Did you try using another folding knife in the same way as the broken military? I'd be curious as to the result.
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I've used many knives throughout my life - some have been better than most. Who remembers all the knives that do well at a given minor task - one remembers failures much better.

In the case of my Mili that broke, I suspect that at some point I hade managed to crack the blade from one of the jimping grooves to the opening hole. That would have significantly reduced the strength of the blade. Add in a bit of twist and "snap". Crap happens.

The problem is when people deny a structural weakness. People have written thesis on how to determine and calculate the affect on strength of holes in plate structures.
 
So if you had to pry yourself out of say a burning car you would put full faith in a folder? If your in the military where is you FB? You know like that one blade that been around for a while..... what's it called again.... O the Ka-bar :rolleyes:

My instant withdrawal?

I do own those knives and no they are not weak at the tasks they are intended to do but if you can't realize that prying with the spyderco military is foolish then I don't know what to tell you.

The hole means nothing is the blade is not thick enough to pry in the first place. But to answer your question yes I would trust my saber ground endura to pry."
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Again if your prying with a blade that is thin to begin with the hole maters little. Notice I said SABER ground endura for a reason.


being mechanically inclined
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=

Why me too, welcome to the club.
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Spyderco has been making knives for a long time if the hole was such a liability would your favorite Benchmade have copied the hole for some of their flagship models like the 806?

To answer your question about value, well n my experience Kershaw and Spyderco tend to bring the most to the table insofar as they give all the latest steels combined with great designs at good prices.
 
I think DennisStrickland is probably making a valid point.

The problem is that with a folder, if you think about it, they ALL have a hole in the blade which diminishes strength. It is the hole through which the pivot pin travels. Now consider the equations for torque http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque (torque=r x F) The hole in the pivot pin is further from end of the blade than a spyder hole is. So if you calculate the torque at the spyder hole and at the pivot you'll get a higher number at the pivot because the r value will be higher the further you move down the blade. Now also, consider the amount of metal surrounding the pivot and the amount surrounding the spyder hole.

We would also then need to consider the type of lock used and analyze that as well and how it interacted with the pivot. I'm not enough of a physicist to do this but perhaps someone would like to take that on as a project.

It hardly matters though, because from an anecdotal perspective, it seems like lock failure and the broken tips Dragon mentioned are much bigger worries. Some companies like ZT seem to address the latter issue by making a super burly tip. That's nice but I think you probably give up a bit of penetration ability with that blade design so there is a trade off. EVERYTHING is a trade off, including your decision to carry a folder over a fixed blade over a crowbar.
 
knifenut1013 said:
So if you had to pry yourself out of say a burning car you would put full faith in a folder? If your in the military where is you FB? You know like that one blade that been around for a while..... what's it called again.... O the Ka-bar :rolleyes:

My instant withdrawal?

I do own those knives and no they are not weak at the tasks they are intended to do but if you can't realize that prying with the spyderco military is foolish then I don't know what to tell you.
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I didn't realize that one encounters a being in a burning car too often, much less having to escape from one - I guess I'll have to re-evaluate my "life or death" plans to include this commoin event.

I must assume by "military" you must be inferring Army ot Marines. I was never issued a knife in my years of service.

"if you can't realize that prying with the spyderco military is foolish" - so know you admit the opeing hole makes a blde weaker. Please be consistant, as the original poster is seaking advice and not some wishy-washy posturing.
 
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