BM vs Spydy vs ZT vs CS

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orthogonal1 said:
Who said the 806 was a flagship model?:)
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I did, it’s one of my favorite Benchmades and all my opinions are basically axiomatic facts…:p :D



Seriously I think that do to the demand, the cool variations and extra steel choices offered its not too much of a stretch consider the 800’s to be among BM’s flagships.
 
I always cut with a folding knife, with a slicing motion, I don't like to put a lot of stress on the blade in any direction besides back.
Some will withstand prying better than others, but they are the ones that are overbuilt and heavy and they aren't slicers (which I prefer in a folder). If I was going to use a knife for prying and heavy scraping, It would be a well made heavy-duty fixed blade.
 
orthogonal1 said:
I didn't realize that one encounters a being in a burning car too often, much less having to escape from one - I guess I'll have to re-evaluate my "life or death" plans to include this commoin event.

That the best you can come up with.

I must assume by "military" you must be inferring Army ot Marines. I was never issued a knife in my years of service.

I guess it never dawned on you to buy one then?

"if you can't realize that prying with the spyderco military is foolish" - so know you admit the opeing hole makes a blde weaker. Please be consistant, as the original poster is seaking advice and not some wishy-washy posturing.

Not because of the hole but because it is a THIN BLADE.
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I give you a A for effort.
 
J.Mattson said:
I did, it’s one of my favorite Benchmades and all my opinions are basically axiomatic facts…:p :D

Seriously I think that do to the demand, the cool variations and extra steel choices offered its not too much of a stretch consider the 800’s to be among BM’s flagships.
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I like the 806, but I like the 805 and 800 better.

Still, I wouldn't call the 806 a "flagship" model.

P.S. Give the 741 a try - I'm leaning on thinking the 741 is the new 806.
 
orthogonal1 said:
I've used many knives throughout my life - some have been better than most. Who remembers all the knives that do well at a given minor task - one remembers failures much better.

In the case of my Mili that broke, I suspect that at some point I hade managed to crack the blade from one of the jimping grooves to the opening hole. That would have significantly reduced the strength of the blade. Add in a bit of twist and "snap". Crap happens.

The problem is when people deny a structural weakness. People have written thesis on how to determine and calculate the affect on strength of holes in plate structures.
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You stated that the hole in the blade makes at least this model weaker. Maybe so, but the question then becomes is the blade weakened enough that other blades of approximately the same dimensions and without the hole are so much stronger? Does the hole in the blade mean that this particular model cannot do a job that a blade of the same dimensions and same steel with no hole can do with ease? now you provide the examples and answers that are not merely your opinions.
 
orthogonal1 said:
I like the 806, but I like the 805 and 800 better.
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It was an early morning goof to cause me to write 806 (aside from the fact that I have one and like it) in my other post I said 800’s to cover some of the other iconic models.

I had a 741, even though I generally like knives with tons of handle I couldn’t quite get the ergo’s to work for me so I donated it to a local program that sends gear and such over sea’s to our local guard units that are deployed.
 
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The area where the spyder-hole is located may not be the narrowest section of the blade -consider the tang of the knife at the pivot point.

The tang of a folder is always going to be *narrow at the pivot point -specifically at the area where the tang meets the locking mechanism. Most of the tangs that I have seen are very narrow at this point; much more narrow than the majority of the blade section that you are able to see.

Just for fun, pick out some folders and look to see how much metal was removed to create an engagement area for the lock. Usually quite a bit of metal has to be removed from the tang.

In the end, the best hard use knife is going to be a full tang fixed blade -that is if the "best knife" means the "toughest knife."

*measuring the area from edge to spine

PS -this is only one variable:eek::D
 
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knifenut1013 said:
I give you a A for effort.
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Charatably, I give you a "C".

It should have been obvious that the original poster was simply expressing themselves based on minimal experiance.

You, on the otherhand, have over 4,000 posts and should have simply noticed such apparent lack of experience and not have gone on the bigotted attack. There was little reason to attack a new member.
 
The hole does make the knife weaker, but for most purposes, you wouldn't notice. Heck, most of the knife use I do doesn't even need a lock. (Considering a UKPK, and debating over whether to go DP or leaf...but that's a different story ) I guess it all comes down to intended use. Does the hole in the Mili's blade make it a lousy knife for slicing and carving and outdoor work? That hasn't been my experience-mine has served me really well.

Does it make it a lousy fridge-stabber or crow bar? It very well might. The Mili is an utterly terrible crowbar, especially for the price.

Does it make it a worse last-ditch knife than if it didn't have the hole? Now that, is debatable. I find the hole more reliable than thumb-studs, especially when cold. (At minus-four degrees Celsius out, the hole is better than the thumb stud. For me. ) Depends on whether your last-ditch use is cutting through a seat belt or a windscreen.

In the meantime, though, it sure wouldn't hurt to get both a Spyderco slicer and a ZT tank :)

Oh, and on BM discontinuing stuff, don't get me started. I'm worried that if I don't get a Rift real soon, they'll DC that, just 'cause. I want an AFCK too.

J. Mattson, sure was a nice thing for you to do. Hope your 741 gets a good home and is well-loved (used)
 
singularity35 said:
now you provide the examples and answers that are not merely your opinions.
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I doubt many if any people here have the time, money and equipment necessary to adequately answer that question.

I can only speak from personal experience and my own use I’ve never found a blade with a deployment hole to be lacking in strength, I use my knives hard but I use them for cutting. I would never pry with a folding knife.

If I really had to pry I’d use my multi tool, probably stronger in that use, and cheaper to replace if (when) it breaks.
 
singularity35 said:
You stated that the hole in the blade makes at least this model weaker. Maybe so, but the question then becomes is the blade weakened enough that other blades of approximately the same dimensions and without the hole are so much stronger? Does the hole in the blade mean that this particular model cannot do a job that a blade of the same dimensions and same steel with no hole can do with ease? now you provide the examples and answers that are not merely your opinions.
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It should be more than obvious that a blade without a whole will be stronger. This is BASIC mechanical engineering; heck, it is basic materials and aero also.

If you wish me to write out the calculations, perform experiments, etc. for such, that'll be a minimum $100 per hour for my time.

Oh, yeah, I'm not intending to "bust your nuts" over this issue. I like the Military and, even though I am off of linerlocks at the moment, the Military is a good design.
 
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orthogonal1 said:
Charatably, I give you a "C".

It should have been obvious that the original poster was simply expressing themselves based on minimal experiance.

You, on the otherhand, have over 4,000 posts and should have simply noticed such apparent lack of experience and not have gone on the bigotted attack. There was little reason to attack a new member.
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The OP came in with a bias to everything but BM, I did not attack I tried to guide into a different line of thinking but it did not work. I did note the lack of experience but with the bias sometimes the cold truth is the only way to open someones eyes.

I guess, maybe you should re-read the thread.
 
knifenut1013 said:
The OP came in with a bias to everything but BM, I did not attack I tried to guide into a different line of thinking but it did not work. I did note the lack of experience but with the bias sometimes the cold truth is the only way to open someones eyes.

I guess, maybe you should re-read the thread.
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I read the thread.

Straight to the attack for little purpose.

Simple acknowledgement of the obviuous issue of a big hole in a plate of steel, why it isn't a particularly critical issue to folding knife choice (with some mention of possible advantages), and then some recommendations of knife models/makers.

Calm, reasonable accurate, and gives one a solid foundation upon which to argue ones opinions/physical facts.

Your "cold truth" is not convincing and appears to be based upon less than probable occurances.
 
J.Mattson said:
It was an early morning goof to cause me to write 806 (aside from the fact that I have one and like it) in my other post I said 800’s to cover some of the other iconic models.

I had a 741, even though I generally like knives with tons of handle I couldn’t quite get the ergo’s to work for me so I donated it to a local program that sends gear and such over see’s to our local guard units that are deployed.
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That is not good.

I have been getting to like the 741 and the "806 Guru" I deal with (a martial arts nut IMO, but a decent honest person nonetheless) seems to like it, though the 741 takes up more realistate than the 806.
 
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Orthogonal1:

I thought I addressed the issue of materiel surrounding the hole. My point was that there is a hole in EVERY folder and it is at the pivot point. Is it not the case that this often results in a design with less metal between that hole and the edge of the blade than the amount of metal between the spyder hole and the edge of the blade? Is it not also the case that the torque will be higher there than at the spyder hole which is further down the blade?

Maybe I'm wrong about this but it just seems to me that in a folder the issue of decreased strength due to the spyder hole is a non-issue because there are so many other areas at which knives can and do fail. If it makes you feel better, I readily acknowledge that if you have your choice of two fixed blades and one has a hole the size of the opening hole on an Endura on the blade and the other doesn't you SHOULD choose the one without the hole.
 
crapgame said:
Orthogonal1:

I thought I addressed the issue of materiel surrounding the hole. My point was that there is a hole in EVERY folder and it is at the pivot point. Is it not the case that this often results in a design with less metal between that hole and the edge of the blade than the amount of metal between the spyder hole and the edge of the blade? Is it not also the case that the torque will be higher there than at the spyder hole which is further down the blade?

Maybe I'm wrong about this but it just seems to me that in a folder the issue of decreased strength due to the spyder hole is a non-issue because there are so many other areas at which knives can and do fail. If it makes you feel better, I readily acknowledge that if you have your choice of two fixed blades and one has a hole the size of the opening hole on an Endura on the blade and the other doesn't you SHOULD choose the one without the hole.
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The hole at the pivot is usually at one of the stronger points in the blade.

Draw it out.
 
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