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Can one say it is SERVICE at all? Who will buy a knife from Darrel Ralph now...
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braillediver
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Could you post a Review of the new knife when it arrives? It'd be a nice way to wrap up the thread and I'd like to see some fine cutlery.
Mitch
Mitch
OK guys,
I received a mail from D.Ralph with apologies and a promise to send a new knife (+ money? as I understood from his post here).
So I am sending him my shipping address and will show you all the unboxing video and thoughts on a new knife when it arrives.
Alex
I received a mail from D.Ralph with apologies and a promise to send a new knife (+ money? as I understood from his post here).
So I am sending him my shipping address and will show you all the unboxing video and thoughts on a new knife when it arrives.
Alex
Good Climbing
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You are absolutely correct that his quality control and customer service is unacceptable and it shouldn't matter if he's a custom maker or not! He and his company are in the wrong!
I know for a fact that your other statement is not true AKnife. You are welcome to your opinion but DDR was emailing/texting me and I'm sure many others asking their opinion and what he should do long before that email was posted here on the forum. Fortunately he took the advice he was seeking and is trying to make it right.
I don't blame you or anyone else for not trusting DDR, especially after the way they/he handled this situation but when someone tries to make it right, which is what he should have done all along then you should at least refrain from further public attacks. What more can he do? He's trying to make it right? He has asked for help with his QC and CS skills. He screwed up big time but he can't change what is in the past, all he can change is the future.
Just my opinion. Hope you have a great day. Thank you
Good Climbing,
Bob
Sending those knives to a customer in that terrible of a condition with glaring issues in fit and finish and selling them as customs for a premium price was a fraudulent act. Hence making him a fraud. It's not a personal attack, it's the obvious truth. He may be making it right now, but that's after the fact that his con and manipulating behavior was shown in a public forum. He has no integrity whatsoever.
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People mess up, make mistakes or handle things incorrectly, the difference is in how it's handled after the fact and before anyone plays judge and jury, how about letting this finish playing out.
DR, I commend you for stepping up, I've followed you for a long time and have always been impressed by your work, I know quite a few people on this forum that have your knives and are extremely happy, in fact I know more that are happy than not.
To both parties involved, the OP and Mr. Ralph, please keep us updated and thank you for taking with this out in the open.
Ted E. (I'm no one in particular
)
DR, I commend you for stepping up, I've followed you for a long time and have always been impressed by your work, I know quite a few people on this forum that have your knives and are extremely happy, in fact I know more that are happy than not.
To both parties involved, the OP and Mr. Ralph, please keep us updated and thank you for taking with this out in the open.
Ted E. (I'm no one in particular
)Sharpe95th - You make some reasonable 'suggestions' along with a bit of 'reaching', as well. Sure, Karda's initial post could be looked at in a couple of ways, but in the end and in many complaint threads such as this, things get resolved and people 'outed' for their transgressions, be it an isolated incident or common practice.
When Karda or any other mod offers their views/opinions in a particular thread, it is simply that.....their opinion, as is yours, mine and all other members. We can agree to disagree and are able to voice those differences. If every post by Karda or another mod were to be taken 'very personally', I suspect that many more than just yourself would have their hand on the door knob. And just subsequent to that, a whole bunch of 'don't let the door hit you in the azz on your way out' salutations would follow. Just the nature of the beast when such forums entertain such a diverse population of members. That's good.....IMHO.
For example - Karda stated his opinion in post #33 about how he felt providers should approach the contractual part of their transactions with their customers. One word in one sentence seemed less than prudent to me, especially given the majority of reasons/issues that people find themselves embroiled in controversies here in the GBU section.......such as with this particular case. So, in post #34, after feeling compelled to give my thoughts on Karda's one specific sentence , I simply offered my opinion on his suggestion. I expect that Karda didn't knowingly feel or think that the word 'almost' wouldn't really be as conducive to attaining what we all hope to achieve here at BF's............just an oversight on his part..........IMHO. No harm, no foul, just a likely oversight or written exactly as intended. Either way, as is to be expected, we move on and allow our opinions the opportunity to be heard.
In post #73, Karda ends that post with a bolded/highlighted, 'no more 'fixing' posts or other such juvenile behavior'. Obviously, the only bolded/highlighted statement in his post was aimed directly at me, as I had previously 'fixed' a post, which I didn't know that I wasn't allowed to do and had seen done many, many times before, without any obvious administrative involvement. That was my bad and I told Karda that when he pm'd me informing me of my transgression. I told him I appreciated the heads-up and that was that.
The point being (and I don't drink coffee), if I, we, all of us were to take things written in these posts so personally, whether from other members or the mods, I would likely have been inclined to believe and feel that Karda had silently harbored a bit of a grudge/contempt for me having given my opinion of just the one word, 'almost', in his post #33 and in essence, somehow may have believed that I had somehow disrespected him, found fault with his post/choices of words, impinged his authority, reputation.....whatever. I gave a clear explanation in the very next post, #34, as to exactly why I differed with just that one word, 'almost', and as should be expected, I forgot about it and I moved on, as I would expect anyone to do.
I believe that Karda was just informing others that 'fixing' other members posts was not allowed so as to head off any more forum violations and certainly not a retaliatory shot at me as might be the case if I took such comments personally. I'm not sure that the 'and other such juvenile behavior' was really necessary as just a very simple and courteous, 'no more fixing posts' would surely have sufficed, especially when he had already earlier pm'd me concerning my 'misstep', but then again, knowing that most members and especially the mods wouldn't likely be expected to resort to such tactics or to use the seemingly acceptable description, juvenile behavior, I'm sure that I wasn't being targeted or singled out for any possible reason other than my one, small, pretty insignificant, 'fixing'.....misstep.
It all boils down to us choosing to believe that it's either raining or that you're peeing on my leg.................. The decision that we all inevitably have to make is whether we toss or wash those pants....ala....personally vs not so much...respectively.
When Karda or any other mod offers their views/opinions in a particular thread, it is simply that.....their opinion, as is yours, mine and all other members. We can agree to disagree and are able to voice those differences. If every post by Karda or another mod were to be taken 'very personally', I suspect that many more than just yourself would have their hand on the door knob. And just subsequent to that, a whole bunch of 'don't let the door hit you in the azz on your way out' salutations would follow. Just the nature of the beast when such forums entertain such a diverse population of members. That's good.....IMHO.
For example - Karda stated his opinion in post #33 about how he felt providers should approach the contractual part of their transactions with their customers. One word in one sentence seemed less than prudent to me, especially given the majority of reasons/issues that people find themselves embroiled in controversies here in the GBU section.......such as with this particular case. So, in post #34, after feeling compelled to give my thoughts on Karda's one specific sentence , I simply offered my opinion on his suggestion. I expect that Karda didn't knowingly feel or think that the word 'almost' wouldn't really be as conducive to attaining what we all hope to achieve here at BF's............just an oversight on his part..........IMHO. No harm, no foul, just a likely oversight or written exactly as intended. Either way, as is to be expected, we move on and allow our opinions the opportunity to be heard.
In post #73, Karda ends that post with a bolded/highlighted, 'no more 'fixing' posts or other such juvenile behavior'. Obviously, the only bolded/highlighted statement in his post was aimed directly at me, as I had previously 'fixed' a post, which I didn't know that I wasn't allowed to do and had seen done many, many times before, without any obvious administrative involvement. That was my bad and I told Karda that when he pm'd me informing me of my transgression. I told him I appreciated the heads-up and that was that.
The point being (and I don't drink coffee), if I, we, all of us were to take things written in these posts so personally, whether from other members or the mods, I would likely have been inclined to believe and feel that Karda had silently harbored a bit of a grudge/contempt for me having given my opinion of just the one word, 'almost', in his post #33 and in essence, somehow may have believed that I had somehow disrespected him, found fault with his post/choices of words, impinged his authority, reputation.....whatever. I gave a clear explanation in the very next post, #34, as to exactly why I differed with just that one word, 'almost', and as should be expected, I forgot about it and I moved on, as I would expect anyone to do.
I believe that Karda was just informing others that 'fixing' other members posts was not allowed so as to head off any more forum violations and certainly not a retaliatory shot at me as might be the case if I took such comments personally. I'm not sure that the 'and other such juvenile behavior' was really necessary as just a very simple and courteous, 'no more fixing posts' would surely have sufficed, especially when he had already earlier pm'd me concerning my 'misstep', but then again, knowing that most members and especially the mods wouldn't likely be expected to resort to such tactics or to use the seemingly acceptable description, juvenile behavior, I'm sure that I wasn't being targeted or singled out for any possible reason other than my one, small, pretty insignificant, 'fixing'.....misstep.
It all boils down to us choosing to believe that it's either raining or that you're peeing on my leg..................
The decision that we all inevitably have to make is whether we toss or wash those pants....ala....personally vs not so much...respectively.
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This isn't the first screw-up by DRalph and company. Do a search on GBU. The common theme is he screws up and then tries to fix it, but he still screws up. They are not just "human errors". Too many errors for a precision product and it becomes fraudulent.
How many chances does he deserve? In this case, he tried to hush the guy once, it didn't work and now he's trying to buy him off because the stink may effect his business.
How many screwups are needed before a company walks the plank at Bladeforums?
How many chances does he deserve? In this case, he tried to hush the guy once, it didn't work and now he's trying to buy him off because the stink may effect his business.
How many screwups are needed before a company walks the plank at Bladeforums?
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Darrell I'm glad you took the humble pie route and decided to squash it, good move. This thread was turning into a roller coaster with hijackers and too many irrelevant emotions being voiced, eeh gads. With no disrespect intended, if you are newer to BF I recommend reading a lil more and posting a lil less. Don't be so emotional towards the staff. They are doing this for free and out of the kindness of the hearts. Thank you mods.
The reputation is established I think that is clear to knowledgeable collectors. You are correct Brownshoe. :thumbup:
The reputation is established I think that is clear to knowledgeable collectors. You are correct Brownshoe. :thumbup:
Some questions and an observation:
--I am under the impression that "custom" refers to a knife solely made by the knifemaker. There was a thread here a while back discussing the difference between "custom" and other terms.
In this case, the knife has been consistently referred to as "custom". Yet Mr. Ralph wrote he was sending a "brand new knife which I have personally checked and double checked." That implies to me he is sending a knife worked on by someone else.
Thus, it is not clear to me if these are custom knives or something else. Am I missing something? If so, I apologize in advance for my denseness. If not, is there an issue with labeling and with pricing?
Finally, I want to state how proud I am of this community. An outraged citizenry rose up and righted a wrong through public pressure. What a model of good citizenship!
--I am under the impression that "custom" refers to a knife solely made by the knifemaker. There was a thread here a while back discussing the difference between "custom" and other terms.
In this case, the knife has been consistently referred to as "custom". Yet Mr. Ralph wrote he was sending a "brand new knife which I have personally checked and double checked." That implies to me he is sending a knife worked on by someone else.
Thus, it is not clear to me if these are custom knives or something else. Am I missing something? If so, I apologize in advance for my denseness. If not, is there an issue with labeling and with pricing?
Finally, I want to state how proud I am of this community. An outraged citizenry rose up and righted a wrong through public pressure. What a model of good citizenship!
I have expressed some unflattering opinions about Bladeforums before. That said, this thread exemplifies something very unique about this place. I participate in a lot of other forums, some of which are the largest in the world in their respective subjects. In all of those, if a customer gets the shaft from an individual or manufacturer, well, tough luck. Threads like this get few replies, mostly from posters feeling sorry for the wronged man.
That´s simply not so in Bladeforums. This kind of crap doesn´t fly in here.
Gastonknife
Gold Member
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I am glad that this situation appears to be on the right track finally. Also, I applaud DDR for finally attempting to make this right.
The one question that still has not been answered, is what "HAND" made the two knives in question?
Can you kindly advise details DDR ?
Thanks.
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
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In this age of the mid-tech knife, the line between production and custom blurs. I have been seeing mid-techs sold as customs with prices that exceed true customs.
I won't try to define custom here, but let me propose that a small shop, staffed by a few family or a few friends, could call its work custom.
If they produce knives, each unique, to the shop's imagination, these are custom. Especially if the buyer requests certain aspects to his specifications.
When a shop sells knives by name or number, stamped out to the same specifications, I find it hard to call these customs. They may depend as much on individual expertise and effort as true customs, which will blur the line.
A knifemaker of integrity will describe his procedures so his customers will know what they are getting. That satisfies me; the term "custom" has become too widely used to mean what it used to.
My usage of the word almost was a simple nod to the fact that you never can tell....each and every situation is different.
In my experience if a customer is too demanding,insulting or telling you how to manufacture or run your business, it is best....especially if money has exchanged hands to politely decline the sale/order, refund the customer and part ways before the situation can be made worse by either party in the myriad of ways a deal can go south. Reacting to poor behavior with poor behavior is never a good thing. With that said there are those people, sometimes customers, that can rub the wrong way and some are never satisfied, those should also be treated as above.
My warning for "fixing posts" was nothing more than a warning to everyone to step back and not make the problem worse by poor behaviors.
Do we all.....everyone included possibly get pushed too far and react poorly at times? There isn't a person here, myself included....with the possible exception of Mr. Benyamin who hasn't.... do we deserve the chance to right the wrong? Probably. Multiple chances?...possibly....up to a point.
I am not going to lie and not say that, considering that some of this has happened before. The gunhammer fiasco. The money order sent for product not received.... The non disclosure agreement :barf: .....that I did not consider discussing with my fellow moderators about the closing of the DDR forum. I'm not going to say that it could not happen in the future should these things continue to be a problem and efforts are not made to rectify these past problems....
I can only state that If it were my business and name being brought up in this manner, that I would be doing everything possible to ensure that my representatives would be acting not only in my best interests, but in those of my customers and to insure that any product made by and endorsed by my standards lives up to them wholly to the best of my abilities. Those acting on my behalf for manufacture, quality control and customer service would be obligated to act in the same manner. If I value my business and my customer, you can bet things will be set and done right, if I have to personally oversee every inch and transaction.. no matter how many shows, personal appearances, whathaveyou that I have to miss. I do not need to ask the opinions of other to know what is right. I was brought up by my parents to know the value of personal integrity, honesty, forthrightness and manners. I expect it also from those with whom I associate and with those with whom I do business.
Do I expect perfection? Hardly. We are all human, all fallible....but I do expect and appreciate the effort.
I will also state that to expect a manufacturer, such as Mr. Ralph, to personally grind, mill, sharpen....etc every part, parcel, whatnot of every knife in his shop is fantasy. There are plenty of others who work the same way. There is no possible way for one person to do all this work and produce product that will even touch a fraction of demand. Those that do personally touch every facet of their work are few, their pieces command an astounding premium (talking thousands of $ here) and their wait times can sometimes be counted in years, not months.
Communication is key and paramount. Your paid customer is your living. An old adage learned right here on the forum goes....a paid for knife is the hardest one to make. Your customer has entrusted you with a goal, to be who you say you are and do what you say you can and what you will do. If you promise updates, do them promptly as scheduled. If you promise pics, provide them as agreed. As I've already stated, under promise and over deliver and you can almost never go wrong. Integrity is not what you do when everyone is looking.... it is what you do when no one is looking.
Sorry for the rant folks... I started this post after getting home from spending time with dear family members and driving 500+ miles from 8am-11pm with only a couple hours in a standing, non moving position. I hope my points a clear and understandable.
In my experience if a customer is too demanding,insulting or telling you how to manufacture or run your business, it is best....especially if money has exchanged hands to politely decline the sale/order, refund the customer and part ways before the situation can be made worse by either party in the myriad of ways a deal can go south. Reacting to poor behavior with poor behavior is never a good thing. With that said there are those people, sometimes customers, that can rub the wrong way and some are never satisfied, those should also be treated as above.
My warning for "fixing posts" was nothing more than a warning to everyone to step back and not make the problem worse by poor behaviors.
Do we all.....everyone included possibly get pushed too far and react poorly at times? There isn't a person here, myself included....with the possible exception of Mr. Benyamin
who hasn't.... do we deserve the chance to right the wrong? Probably. Multiple chances?...possibly....up to a point.I am not going to lie and not say that, considering that some of this has happened before. The gunhammer fiasco. The money order sent for product not received.... The non disclosure agreement :barf: .....that I did not consider discussing with my fellow moderators about the closing of the DDR forum. I'm not going to say that it could not happen in the future should these things continue to be a problem and efforts are not made to rectify these past problems....
I can only state that If it were my business and name being brought up in this manner, that I would be doing everything possible to ensure that my representatives would be acting not only in my best interests, but in those of my customers and to insure that any product made by and endorsed by my standards lives up to them wholly to the best of my abilities. Those acting on my behalf for manufacture, quality control and customer service would be obligated to act in the same manner. If I value my business and my customer, you can bet things will be set and done right, if I have to personally oversee every inch and transaction.. no matter how many shows, personal appearances, whathaveyou that I have to miss. I do not need to ask the opinions of other to know what is right. I was brought up by my parents to know the value of personal integrity, honesty, forthrightness and manners. I expect it also from those with whom I associate and with those with whom I do business.
Do I expect perfection? Hardly. We are all human, all fallible....but I do expect and appreciate the effort.
I will also state that to expect a manufacturer, such as Mr. Ralph, to personally grind, mill, sharpen....etc every part, parcel, whatnot of every knife in his shop is fantasy. There are plenty of others who work the same way. There is no possible way for one person to do all this work and produce product that will even touch a fraction of demand. Those that do personally touch every facet of their work are few, their pieces command an astounding premium (talking thousands of $ here) and their wait times can sometimes be counted in years, not months.
Communication is key and paramount. Your paid customer is your living. An old adage learned right here on the forum goes....a paid for knife is the hardest one to make. Your customer has entrusted you with a goal, to be who you say you are and do what you say you can and what you will do. If you promise updates, do them promptly as scheduled. If you promise pics, provide them as agreed. As I've already stated, under promise and over deliver and you can almost never go wrong. Integrity is not what you do when everyone is looking.... it is what you do when no one is looking.
Sorry for the rant folks... I started this post after getting home from spending time with dear family members and driving 500+ miles from 8am-11pm with only a couple hours in a standing, non moving position. I hope my points a clear and understandable.
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