Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
- Joined
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- 75,551
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can someone explain to me why there is a maxpedition boycott?
- Thread starter doorkicker
- Start date
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
- Joined
- Oct 9, 1998
- Messages
- 75,551
Some different angles:
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
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- 90,915
this is our hobby and lets enjoy it
Now I like the sound of that.
Now I like the sound of that.
Cougar Allen said:
No it's not, but that's not what was said about Mick.
He wasn't just out of the country but on "covert missions"
And it wasn't just "a friend who once said" but lots of people repeating it for years in magazines and on fora.
Mick did nothing to rectify this reputation that became common knowledge amongst knife enthousiasts.
Why didn't he? Because that reputation did more to boost sales than any amount of advertising.
Parker said:
Parker, you were admonished for posting in a for sale thread. That is not the place to have a discussion, or to ask irrelevant questions. You should have emailed Mr. Brown, and asked him your questions. This is a rule here at BFC, no matter who it is. Spark even has a sticky posted at the top of the forum regarding that issue. If you had posted that here in TGB&U forum, or in a discussion forum, nothing would have been said at all.
Sky Masterson, as far as your comment about us not shutting this thread because of who it concerns, you are dead wrong. It doesn't matter who it is, or what the subject matter is, we won't shut it down unless a flame war breaks out, or it strays from the topic at hand. Cougar said it best a few posts ago. We do our best as moderators not to show bias. We want the information to be presented, so the members here can make their own conclusions. One sided information, or bias does not present the whole story, and we want to avoid that here.
I have read what I have access to in the Mick Strider case, and I also agree that his children should have been left out of it. Other than that, my opinion in the matter is irrelevant, as I try to remain neuteral as a moderator here.
My email is readily available if anyone would like to discuss this issue, or any other issue.
Cliff Stamp
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 5, 1998
- Messages
- 17,562
Cougar Allen said:
The arguement put forth by McClung's wife, which can be read on his forum was that the nature of the crime which was a fairly extreme one (again from her description) and it indicated a character in the individual which yes you would not want to support.
Many people feel this way and see some criminal acts as being pretty much unforgivable, and would not trust or support people who have commited them. Personally, it is hard to say what you would do in an extreme situation and it you don't give second chances you might as well exile criminals.
That seems ok for some, until they get in that situation which often forces a chance in perspective. Again, extreme circumstances can induce extreme behavior. I don't know what was going on in Mick's life at that time, but it isn't hard to imagine how a basically good person can be forced to behavior he would later regret and wish he had not done.
What I find odd about the whole thing is that the individuals putting forth the arguement have made far wilder statements about themselves in the promotion of their knives than I have seen Strider do personally. What they may have said in private is another matter, but again not a lot of people have come forth in that regard.
-Cliff
Cliff Stamp said:
Now I am dis appointed. I fully expected to see a review on the performance given by the individuals involved. I wanted to know if the edge retention was good, how long did the sharp conversation hold up in different minds, was a dense brain harder than a jello one on one over the other. How does one hold up to repeated blows by a 2x4 etc....
maybe you tell us about the individuals just based on thier looks too...
but on the other hand it is good to see that cliff has knowledge in this type of area too...
- Joined
- Apr 3, 1999
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People that haven't carried snapping turtles have no business judging those that have or still do!
(I'm sorry, that really didn't add to this, but I'm in a bad mood because I missed my "Firefly" rerun.
)
(I'm sorry, that really didn't add to this, but I'm in a bad mood because I missed my "Firefly" rerun.
)
fracmeister
Petroleum Engineer
- Joined
- May 26, 1999
- Messages
- 1,686
Cougar Allen said:
Run for the hills boys, the knife salesmen are coming!
fracmeister
Petroleum Engineer
- Joined
- May 26, 1999
- Messages
- 1,686
Kohai999 said:
OK, it was a long time ago, so just drop it.
It it is no secret to anyone here I am a friend of Kevin McClung, aka Mad Dog, of Mad Dog Knives of Mad Dog Labs. He and I started our friendship by me calling him and basically being an obnoxious dick over the phone when I could not convince him to sell me a Frequent Flyer back in 1994 as I had no CCW or other verifiable means of demonstrating I was a genuine good guy. I think we have progressed since then, though I am still obnoxious and he still builds fantastic knives, Cliff's opinions not withstanding.
Since he is not a member at BFC, he emailed me the following last evening, asking I post it here for him - he's got his own forum and does not get out much in an internet way in terms of being a joiner. I've no problem with this, and therefore, I post the following from Kevin McClung as written by him concerning what I have come to think of as the "Strider Epispode Number 3." I am sorry I have not gotten a chance to post this earlier, but business matters dictated I be away from this delightful soiree since early this morning.
If you so desire, you may contact Kevin directly upon reading this - his email is readily available at his site - I'm not fielding emails.
So, read and enjoy.
----------------------------------------
Sky, Cliffy, and all y'all at BF (except Stropper, who seems to have it well in hand),
Some of you seem to be slightly to extremely confused as to what actually occurred.
Given the quantity of disinformation being strewn like keyboard diarrhea by the Striderettes, it is easy to see why.
Maxpedition's Tim Tang, Beau Springer, Kevin "Mad Dog" McClung (moi) , and Lance "Kensho" Harris didn't attack anyone first. Nor did they have any investigations done on Mick Strider. That was done by someone else, who disseminated the info on the net.
Even Mick Strider admitted that.
Once word got out about his falsehoods and those of his chroniclers, business partners and promoters, Mick came out and attacked the aforementioned Tang, Springer, McClung, and Harris in public, on Tactical Forums.com, a public forum.
Let's look at the chronology of what actually happened, shall we?
Beau Springer noted that Mick Strider's real name was Mickey Burger on 14 July, in a completely factual post:
http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000509
Note that there are PUBLIC documents to ascertain all of this.
Mick Strider posted on (the same thread) 19 July, 2005 10:39
http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000509
A really horrible set of insults and lies laced with his usual vulgar literary stylings. However, no proofs to contradict a single word of what Beau had written, and nothing in the way of documentation offered to indicate that a single word Strider had written about his past or those he was attacking were true.
The thread was locked on 21 July to preserve Mick's slanderous and libelous post. Believe me when I tell you that there are people that care a lot more about what Mickey said publicly than I do. It was preserved for their legal teams. Ask Mick Strider about that. Really. Ask him. Ask him about the lawsuits filed in North County San Diego last week.
Tactical Assault Gear vs. Strider Knives
San Diego Court phone number is 760-726-9595 ext. 150
All you have to give them is the case number. GIN 046 566
Ryan "Knifebomber" Renuart posted 21 July, 2005 01:5007-21-2005 02:50
http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=83;t=000011
Ryan made a really egregious set of gross insults and profanity in a very personal ad hominem attack on Tim Tang/Maxpedition.
Ryan Renuart then denied making such statements. Posted 21 July, 2005 15:2507-21-2005 16:25
http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000513
He was immediately proved a liar yet again.
That was the last we heard from Ryan Renuart at TF.
NOTE: Renuart wasn't banned until late on July 26 when we cleaned house.
Beau Springer responded with a set of questions for Mick, which Mick could have easily ignored or simply answered. TF had no objection to Beau Springer starting the thread though, as he had been so horribly wronged by Strider's numerous entirely false claims about Beau, his service to Country, and more.
http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000514
Instead, Mick responds with more invective, lies, and vitriol.
In response, PUBLIC document names and sources were published so that anyone who wished to could ascertain the truth of the matter for themselves.
TF locked that thread, too, same reason.
READ THIS CAREFULLY: IT WAS NEVER ABOUT KNIVES.
No matter how much the Striderettes wanted it to be, no matter how much diversionary BS their crew spewed, it was never about knives. It was about Mick panicking because he had been found out.
In plain fact, Mick (et al) made a lot of claims about his military and personal past that were simply untrue.
PUBLIC documents exist to prove all of this.
Sure, he was in the army for a while, but that's about it. We never disputed that, despite more of Mick's spurious claims to the contrary. But he had no spec-ops, no black-ops, no SOCOM, which was founded after Strider was no longer even in the Army, no anything else that has been widely claimed by him and/or his advertisers including Buck Knives:
http://www.buckknives.com/catalog/236
Mick started the overt hostilities.
Mick.
Not Kevin McClung, not Beau Springer, not Lance Harris, and certainly not Tim Tang.
Mick...started...it.
Got that?
The simple fact is that almost every pro Strider respondent to any of those TF threads violated every single rule of the Tactical Forums, and every rule of common civility. Mick Strider most obviously included.
The ones that were left with intact TF registrations include Mick Strider, Duane Dwyer, and Darryl Bolke. Why? So they can respond if and when they ever develop a shred of evidence that exculpates them. Did Strider lie to Daryl Bolke, or did Bolke lie to us in the articles he wrote?
Is Buck Knives lying to us, or did Strider lie to them? Pat Covert? American Handgunner's staff?
However, they have yet to produce a shred of data indicative that Strider's claims and personal attacks are even remotely defensible. Especially Darryl Bolke's very public assertion that Mick was involved in a hazardous overseas combat mission while he was actually in prison for armed carjacking, and had been for quite some time. (What a snort that was!) Printed in the 2002 Tactical Annual by American Handgunner. Article by Darryl Bolke. "Mick has a background in Special Operations Command (SOCOM) with the U.S. Army. Nothing else really needs to be said."
We strongly doubt that they can prove a shred of it.
Frankly, I do not care whether they do or not, but TF did leave them the opportunity to.
Honorable enough?
They are welcome to rejoin the public fray that they started if they have the stomach for it, but they also know that TF and a few others know far more than they have told so far.
TF left a lot of the anti TF/Beau/Kensho/Mad Dog etc invective and slander intact on the Forums despite the obvious profanity, ad hominem and protocol violations so that everyone can see, for all time, the sort of mind Mick has and the sort of people who cling to him.
He is, quite frankly, welcome to them.
You must surely admit that the Striderettes didn't comport themselves with any dignity or rationale at all. Rather, they preferred to meander off topic, hurl accusations and slander, and make all sorts of idiotic statements about knife quality which had nothing at all to do with Mick's false assertions, outright lies and complete vulgarity.
To a man, they quite obviously missed the entire point of the discussion and relied on vitriol and/or emotionalism to carry their Kerryesque case.
TF et al did not attack, they defended.
Quite successfully I might add.
They acted honorably, in that they presented a ton of evidence countering all of Mick's claims and aspersions, and also gave Mick and the Striderettes full latitude to say whatever they wanted to.... coincidentally exposing themselves even further.
In closing I will tell you that if I personally gave a rat's patoot for Mick Strider or anything he says, I too would be suing him right now for the things he has said and written about me, my wife, and my friends. However, I am uninjured by an obvious liar telling obvious lies about me, so why bother?
Yours very truly,
Kevin "Mad Dog" McClung
Pres.
MD Labs/ Mad Dog Knives
8333 Pecos Drive #4
Prescott Valley, Az. 86314
Since he is not a member at BFC, he emailed me the following last evening, asking I post it here for him - he's got his own forum and does not get out much in an internet way in terms of being a joiner. I've no problem with this, and therefore, I post the following from Kevin McClung as written by him concerning what I have come to think of as the "Strider Epispode Number 3." I am sorry I have not gotten a chance to post this earlier, but business matters dictated I be away from this delightful soiree since early this morning.
If you so desire, you may contact Kevin directly upon reading this - his email is readily available at his site - I'm not fielding emails.
So, read and enjoy.
----------------------------------------
Sky, Cliffy, and all y'all at BF (except Stropper, who seems to have it well in hand),
Some of you seem to be slightly to extremely confused as to what actually occurred.
Given the quantity of disinformation being strewn like keyboard diarrhea by the Striderettes, it is easy to see why.
Maxpedition's Tim Tang, Beau Springer, Kevin "Mad Dog" McClung (moi) , and Lance "Kensho" Harris didn't attack anyone first. Nor did they have any investigations done on Mick Strider. That was done by someone else, who disseminated the info on the net.
Even Mick Strider admitted that.
Once word got out about his falsehoods and those of his chroniclers, business partners and promoters, Mick came out and attacked the aforementioned Tang, Springer, McClung, and Harris in public, on Tactical Forums.com, a public forum.
Let's look at the chronology of what actually happened, shall we?
Beau Springer noted that Mick Strider's real name was Mickey Burger on 14 July, in a completely factual post:
http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000509
Note that there are PUBLIC documents to ascertain all of this.
Mick Strider posted on (the same thread) 19 July, 2005 10:39
http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000509
A really horrible set of insults and lies laced with his usual vulgar literary stylings. However, no proofs to contradict a single word of what Beau had written, and nothing in the way of documentation offered to indicate that a single word Strider had written about his past or those he was attacking were true.
The thread was locked on 21 July to preserve Mick's slanderous and libelous post. Believe me when I tell you that there are people that care a lot more about what Mickey said publicly than I do. It was preserved for their legal teams. Ask Mick Strider about that. Really. Ask him. Ask him about the lawsuits filed in North County San Diego last week.
Tactical Assault Gear vs. Strider Knives
San Diego Court phone number is 760-726-9595 ext. 150
All you have to give them is the case number. GIN 046 566
Ryan "Knifebomber" Renuart posted 21 July, 2005 01:5007-21-2005 02:50
http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=83;t=000011
Ryan made a really egregious set of gross insults and profanity in a very personal ad hominem attack on Tim Tang/Maxpedition.
Ryan Renuart then denied making such statements. Posted 21 July, 2005 15:2507-21-2005 16:25
http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000513
He was immediately proved a liar yet again.
That was the last we heard from Ryan Renuart at TF.
NOTE: Renuart wasn't banned until late on July 26 when we cleaned house.
Beau Springer responded with a set of questions for Mick, which Mick could have easily ignored or simply answered. TF had no objection to Beau Springer starting the thread though, as he had been so horribly wronged by Strider's numerous entirely false claims about Beau, his service to Country, and more.
http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000514
Instead, Mick responds with more invective, lies, and vitriol.
In response, PUBLIC document names and sources were published so that anyone who wished to could ascertain the truth of the matter for themselves.
TF locked that thread, too, same reason.
READ THIS CAREFULLY: IT WAS NEVER ABOUT KNIVES.
No matter how much the Striderettes wanted it to be, no matter how much diversionary BS their crew spewed, it was never about knives. It was about Mick panicking because he had been found out.
In plain fact, Mick (et al) made a lot of claims about his military and personal past that were simply untrue.
PUBLIC documents exist to prove all of this.
Sure, he was in the army for a while, but that's about it. We never disputed that, despite more of Mick's spurious claims to the contrary. But he had no spec-ops, no black-ops, no SOCOM, which was founded after Strider was no longer even in the Army, no anything else that has been widely claimed by him and/or his advertisers including Buck Knives:
http://www.buckknives.com/catalog/236
Mick started the overt hostilities.
Mick.
Not Kevin McClung, not Beau Springer, not Lance Harris, and certainly not Tim Tang.
Mick...started...it.
Got that?
The simple fact is that almost every pro Strider respondent to any of those TF threads violated every single rule of the Tactical Forums, and every rule of common civility. Mick Strider most obviously included.
The ones that were left with intact TF registrations include Mick Strider, Duane Dwyer, and Darryl Bolke. Why? So they can respond if and when they ever develop a shred of evidence that exculpates them. Did Strider lie to Daryl Bolke, or did Bolke lie to us in the articles he wrote?
Is Buck Knives lying to us, or did Strider lie to them? Pat Covert? American Handgunner's staff?
However, they have yet to produce a shred of data indicative that Strider's claims and personal attacks are even remotely defensible. Especially Darryl Bolke's very public assertion that Mick was involved in a hazardous overseas combat mission while he was actually in prison for armed carjacking, and had been for quite some time. (What a snort that was!) Printed in the 2002 Tactical Annual by American Handgunner. Article by Darryl Bolke. "Mick has a background in Special Operations Command (SOCOM) with the U.S. Army. Nothing else really needs to be said."
We strongly doubt that they can prove a shred of it.
Frankly, I do not care whether they do or not, but TF did leave them the opportunity to.
Honorable enough?
They are welcome to rejoin the public fray that they started if they have the stomach for it, but they also know that TF and a few others know far more than they have told so far.
TF left a lot of the anti TF/Beau/Kensho/Mad Dog etc invective and slander intact on the Forums despite the obvious profanity, ad hominem and protocol violations so that everyone can see, for all time, the sort of mind Mick has and the sort of people who cling to him.
He is, quite frankly, welcome to them.
You must surely admit that the Striderettes didn't comport themselves with any dignity or rationale at all. Rather, they preferred to meander off topic, hurl accusations and slander, and make all sorts of idiotic statements about knife quality which had nothing at all to do with Mick's false assertions, outright lies and complete vulgarity.
To a man, they quite obviously missed the entire point of the discussion and relied on vitriol and/or emotionalism to carry their Kerryesque case.
TF et al did not attack, they defended.
Quite successfully I might add.
They acted honorably, in that they presented a ton of evidence countering all of Mick's claims and aspersions, and also gave Mick and the Striderettes full latitude to say whatever they wanted to.... coincidentally exposing themselves even further.
In closing I will tell you that if I personally gave a rat's patoot for Mick Strider or anything he says, I too would be suing him right now for the things he has said and written about me, my wife, and my friends. However, I am uninjured by an obvious liar telling obvious lies about me, so why bother?
Yours very truly,
Kevin "Mad Dog" McClung
Pres.
MD Labs/ Mad Dog Knives
8333 Pecos Drive #4
Prescott Valley, Az. 86314
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2000
- Messages
- 333
This thread was about the reason some buyers of gear equipment have
stopped buying Maxpedition gear; due to their participation in flame wars.
Hate filled posts can backfire. People sending e-mails, that soon become
public,and start off "we thought you should know that...." are found to be
pushing their own agenda.
Blade forums is open to all,why can't Kevin McLung join Blade Forums &
post himself? We don't like links to other forums,especially those that some
of us are banned from using.
Moderators let these disgusting attacks on a man's family & business
continue because it was not a "flame war".It's not?
Thousands of us will support Mick Strider because we know what honor
and integrity is,and we live by that code.He and Emerson have the top two
tactical companies in the world,deservedly so.
We are known by the company we keep, as my dad once said.
stopped buying Maxpedition gear; due to their participation in flame wars.
Hate filled posts can backfire. People sending e-mails, that soon become
public,and start off "we thought you should know that...." are found to be
pushing their own agenda.
Blade forums is open to all,why can't Kevin McLung join Blade Forums &
post himself? We don't like links to other forums,especially those that some
of us are banned from using.
Moderators let these disgusting attacks on a man's family & business
continue because it was not a "flame war".It's not?
Thousands of us will support Mick Strider because we know what honor
and integrity is,and we live by that code.He and Emerson have the top two
tactical companies in the world,deservedly so.
We are known by the company we keep, as my dad once said.
I dont think the plot thickens, more the opposite. Ive read the entire digression and one of Kevin Ms (and his posse) assertions is that Mick S lied about his military career. From what I can read/decipher of Beaus statements/assertions/intent, he is making the claim that serving in a Ranger Batt does not make one a Ranger
only Ranger School does (even had links to a Ranger Associationmight want to email the Pres of said organization cause they are soup and need to rectify). I saw this assertion on TF and didnt respond at the timeprobably because Im not one of Kevins appointed ettes and I didnt think it was worth my time.
Kevin, you and yours need to drop this already. Argue whatever else, but your just plain wrong on this assertion. If ANYTHING, serving/having served in the Regiment is what we in the Army consider a Rangernot some cherry nube that went to OBC/BNOC, passed the big suck, then went to his mech line unit at 1st Armored (hopefully you understand the difference in my very relevant example of Regiment/outside Regiment). Another example of same standard/psychology: Ive been to jump school, but I dont call myself a paratrooper unless Im in an Airborne unit on jump status done the school, but dont rate the title. As far as a Batt, a heck of a lot of Batt boys havent done the school (Ranger) prior to be promoted to specialist/pinning Sergeant stripes onthere is a queue/OML like everything else.
Dont know how else to explain it, but your assertion on this account is just plain wrong and I cant stand seeing it any longer (especially since it is overflowing to a board I frequent).
p.s.: fyi: the 75th has been realigned and now (along with SF, 160th, Psyops, and others) now falls under an Army USASOC 3-star at Bragg, who falls under SOCOMs umbrella.
Kevin, you and yours need to drop this already. Argue whatever else, but your just plain wrong on this assertion. If ANYTHING, serving/having served in the Regiment is what we in the Army consider a Rangernot some cherry nube that went to OBC/BNOC, passed the big suck, then went to his mech line unit at 1st Armored (hopefully you understand the difference in my very relevant example of Regiment/outside Regiment). Another example of same standard/psychology: Ive been to jump school, but I dont call myself a paratrooper unless Im in an Airborne unit on jump status done the school, but dont rate the title. As far as a Batt, a heck of a lot of Batt boys havent done the school (Ranger) prior to be promoted to specialist/pinning Sergeant stripes onthere is a queue/OML like everything else.
Dont know how else to explain it, but your assertion on this account is just plain wrong and I cant stand seeing it any longer (especially since it is overflowing to a board I frequent).
p.s.: fyi: the 75th has been realigned and now (along with SF, 160th, Psyops, and others) now falls under an Army USASOC 3-star at Bragg, who falls under SOCOMs umbrella.
Parker - you have been stirring this crap since the "for sale" post.
Glad you finally came out of the closet as having a dog in this race. I now see why you kept stirring this, you obviously knew far more than you originally let on.
Really, seems like thats what you did here.
Frankly, I don't care to see all the links to another forum. Don't tell me someone who compiled such a long bunch of "he said she said" can't take 2 minutes to join here and post for himself.
This boycott thing must be having an impact...
Glad you finally came out of the closet as having a dog in this race. I now see why you kept stirring this, you obviously knew far more than you originally let on.
Really, seems like thats what you did here.
Frankly, I don't care to see all the links to another forum. Don't tell me someone who compiled such a long bunch of "he said she said" can't take 2 minutes to join here and post for himself.
This boycott thing must be having an impact...
i agree the boycott must be working, but i do NOT think this should be the playing field.
Strider or mad dog have yet to post here, and mad dogs unwillingness to join even shows how lame he is.
i know strider has his own forum-
so why not let the little fans [myself included] show their support on their 'sides' arenas.
it is fruitless to argue ANY facts here.
just my .02 cents...of which i will not be buying any maxpedition gear.:thumbdn:
Strider or mad dog have yet to post here, and mad dogs unwillingness to join even shows how lame he is.
i know strider has his own forum-
so why not let the little fans [myself included] show their support on their 'sides' arenas.
it is fruitless to argue ANY facts here.
just my .02 cents...of which i will not be buying any maxpedition gear.:thumbdn:
RWS said:
I would read TF with a grain of salt, it gets edited more often than not by the owners. :thumbdn:
:thumbdn: And I love Strider knives, I've sold just about every other knife I've owned to get more more more.
The carjacking sure took me by surprise though when I heard about it, especially when all you hear about is undying honor and such from some of the supporters and whatnot. But, I too have had legal problems in my past so it's a null issue. It's funny that you can be a decent person your whole life and then be labeled forever for something bad you did once. 
I would certainly give Mick another chance and it seems like he did well with the chances given him. More power to him. :thumbup: sorry for babbling,
oil