cckw doesn't stand behind his words

CUTS LIKE A KRIS said:
Actually Animal, it appears that the buyer was told there was $100 insurance on the package, and the seller refuses to honor his claim of said amount, and refuses to refund anything. That is more the issue to me than any location issue.
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belive that the buyer refused his charity from the top of this page
 
CUTS LIKE A KRIS said:
Actually Animal, it appears that the buyer was told there was $100 insurance on the package, and the seller refuses to honor his claim of said amount, and refuses to refund anything. That is more the issue to me than any location issue.
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Damn_Animal said:
belive that the buyer refused his charity from the top of this page
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^^^^THIS^^^^

When asked directly, it seems as though PWET wants the money but doesn't want "charity" (whatever that means). I mean, CCKW offered him some cash (I have to assume it was at least $100 or thereabouts) and PWET said no. What else can we really expect from the seller in this case? It seems like he's gone well above and beyond.

The only thing that I can fault him on is not saying "delivery risk is yours" but that's implicit in the insurance/customs value discussion.
 
I have shipped to France a number of times with no problems. That's not really the issue here as the buyer of the knife is from France. If you are going to sell a knife to a man in France I think it is reasonable to expect that you will ship there.

The buyer has neither the knife nor his money. I don't understand how the seller has gone above and beyond?
 
Offered the buyer 100 he refused it as charity. Spent twenty hoours on the phone attempting to track it down even though the seller cheapped out on shippiing. Finaly put up with emails for months. Seems he has done everything but eat a huge lose that wasn't his responsability after the seller attempted to take the cheapest and lleast safe shipping matter
 
I may be mistaken but I haven't seen any quotes from cckw email where there was actually any money offered at all, there may have been but I haven't seen it. I did see this quote:

"Not knowing the screwy rules of the postal system I don't feel so guilty about, even the people who work there do not know a lot of the odd ones. However, I have been thinking that I sold you the knife for more then I paid, and refunding the profit amount has been on my mind."

I don't know if "been on my mind" would constitute an offer of some sort of refund, if it had said 'and I'd like to refund you the profit I made' then that's an offer to me.

Personally, if I buy a knife, it gets lost after I was told it shipped with $100 insurance then I was offered the "profit" the seller made, I'd likely be a bit pissed and refuse his "charity" as well. I don't want charity, I want what is due to me and if I agreed to a shipping method that I'm told includes $100 insurance and something happens, then by God I want the $100 insurance I was told was on the package.

Lets also not forget the unofficial rules posted elsewhere on this thread, originally posted on this site by Esav, if someone sends you money for a sale or an item for a trade, it'd your responsibility to get the knife or item to the party. Period! Insurance is a means to cover the shippers potential loss (the receiving party can't file a claim, the shipper has to file it). You (as the shipper) buy the insurance to cover the full purchase price of the item so that you can refund the buyers money should it get lost or stolen in shipment, just be smart and include the cost of it in the price of the item or, don't give the buyer a choice to ship without it ... 'You want me to ship to France? Sure but the insurance is gonna cost you $$$, you pay it or I don't sell to you'.

In this case, PWET agreed to the $100 insurance he was told by cckw would be included so it's his loss that he's not due a total refund, but he is due the $100 bucks ... and not some BS "profit" the seller may (or my not) have offered. If the buyer pays for any amt of insurance and the seller doesn't insure the item, the buyer shouldn't be out of a refund.

For those who seem to think PWET gets nothing, I wonder what your opinion would be if PWET had paid to insure the full value of the knife and cckw had just decided not to get the insurance? It's the sellers risk, if he want's to 'self insure' that's up to him.

Jester60
 
I have no idea why people are continuing to make excuses for cckw. Anyone who could read these two threads and come away thinking that pwet is in the wrong and cckw is a standup guy isnt paying attention imo.
 
Jester60 said:
I may be mistaken but I haven't seen any quotes from cckw email where there was actually any money offered at all, there may have been but I haven't seen it. I did see this quote:

"Not knowing the screwy rules of the postal system I don't feel so guilty about, even the people who work there do not know a lot of the odd ones. However, I have been thinking that I sold you the knife for more then I paid, and refunding the profit amount has been on my mind."

I don't know if "been on my mind" would constitute an offer of some sort of refund, if it had said 'and I'd like to refund you the profit I made' then that's an offer to me.

Personally, if I buy a knife, it gets lost after I was told it shipped with $100 insurance then I was offered the "profit" the seller made, I'd likely be a bit pissed and refuse his "charity" as well. I don't want charity, I want what is due to me and if I agreed to a shipping method that I'm told includes $100 insurance and something happens, then by God I want the $100 insurance I was told was on the package.

Lets also not forget the unofficial rules posted elsewhere on this thread, originally posted on this site by Esav, if someone sends you money for a sale or an item for a trade, it'd your responsibility to get the knife or item to the party. Period! Insurance is a means to cover the shippers potential loss (the receiving party can't file a claim, the shipper has to file it). You (as the shipper) buy the insurance to cover the full purchase price of the item so that you can refund the buyers money should it get lost or stolen in shipment, just be smart and include the cost of it in the price of the item or, don't give the buyer a choice to ship without it ... 'You want me to ship to France? Sure but the insurance is gonna cost you $$$, you pay it or I don't sell to you'.

In this case, PWET agreed to the $100 insurance he was told by cckw would be included so it's his loss that he's not due a total refund, but he is due the $100 bucks ... and not some BS "profit" the seller may (or my not) have offered. If the buyer pays for any amt of insurance and the seller doesn't insure the item, the buyer shouldn't be out of a refund.

For those who seem to think PWET gets nothing, I wonder what your opinion would be if PWET had paid to insure the full value of the knife and cckw had just decided not to get the insurance? It's the sellers risk, if he want's to 'self insure' that's up to him.

Jester60
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Justa said:
I have no idea why people are continuing to make excuses for cckw. Anyone who could read these two threads and come away thinking that pwet is in the wrong and cckw is a standup guy isnt paying attention imo.
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snowreaper1 said:
There was never an offer of $100 refund given so please dont make the story any more complicated.
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Did you guys actually read the thread? Jeez, do I need to provide references to the EXACT place where its stated (I think its actually in the OP).

I just realized, why am I even responding on this thread? If folks can't be bothered to read and want to condemn someone on flawed information then its their loss. I have no dog in this race. I am done. Au revior folks.
 
wow wow wow

the charity thing is greatly misunderstood. first i havent refused anything. he told me he had no problem not delivering the insurance but will think about refunding some profit money .... my answer to that was "do what you think is right" ooitzoo you know it you've got a copy of the conversation by mail but you have also a good bias here it seems . you also know that after that i got no mails anymore ... and no money obviously

if you can quote me saying anywhere in this thread or in the mail history i sent you that i refused the money please quote it there i'll apologise for the misinformation. because to him i never refused any refund. and i really don't think that what he said about profit money was a serious offer, if so he wouldn't have blocked my email right after that.
 
Well looks like the words from the horses mouth confirms it...... no $100 refunds offered and denied.
 
ooitzoo said:
Did you guys actually read the thread? Jeez, do I need to provide references to the EXACT place where its stated (I think its actually in the OP).

I just realized, why am I even responding on this thread? If folks can't be bothered to read and want to condemn someone on flawed information then its their loss. I have no dog in this race. I am done. Au revior folks.
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Obviously you do have a dog running. Maybe cckw is your cousin or something. An impartial outsider cant help but see that cckw got his money and pwet didnt get the knife. Now cckw is making excuses, trying to spin, and periodically modifying his story to try and cast himself in the best light. Everything else is just dross.
 
Justa said:
Obviously you do have a dog running. Maybe cckw is your cousin or something. An impartial outsider cant help but see that cckw got his money and pwet didnt get the knife. Now cckw is making excuses, trying to spin, and periodically modifying his story to try and cast himself in the best light. Everything else is just dross.
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Hahaha, I am more then willing to laugh at some ghost account with two posts. Go do some trades/sales and accumulate my level of feedback and MAYBE you'll have some legitimacy in saying something.

pwet said:
what i wanted at first was leaving a public trace of what happened.

then i got caught in the whinning .... i shouldn't have. now that he felt like he could lie to everybody saying i never asked for insurance i want to make him stop that.

the "charity" thing was for this email


where he basicaly says, no it's not my fault, i'm not responsible (false) but as i took a big markup on you (fine otherwise) i'll probably give you that.

this upset me. that's perhaps just me but that's what i call charity, he shouldn't say like a prince that he'll refund me his gain like a prince, he should refund me the insurance he told me i paid ... that's a principle thing, no more.
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Ummmm.....

I had absolutely no bias going into this but after reading thru this whole thread I feel that CCKW did his part.

Has anyone thought about trying to collect on a insurance claim after listing a customs value well below the insurance amount? The first thing USPS will do is say "you're trying to collect $x but customs value is only $24 (or whatever)....hmmmm, we'll pay you $24."

Anyway, I am done here.
 
If you payed for the right shipping and insurance this woulld not be a problem at all that's my main point. Ypu skimped to save a few dollars and your gamble did not pay off. If you infact payed for insurance you are entitled to the ammount unless you have refused I. This seemed to be the case from your refusal of charity comment.

Simply put the rules say that if both parties agree to terms they are the terms followed.


To those stilll skeptikal on how insurance works go buy a car don't insure it wreck it, and then apply to insurance to get the repairs done and lemme know how it works out.
 
I'm still confused as to how an offer of giving up the profit (maybe $20-30) is enough to put him off of the hook. No knife was delivered, no refund of the $100 insurance (wrongfully promised) given- to me end of story. $100 or knife shows up, story ends. The only way I see it.
 
Damn_Animal said:
If you payed for the right shipping and insurance this woulld not be a problem at all that's my main point. Ypu skimped to save a few dollars and your gamble did not pay off. If you infact payed for insurance you are entitled to the ammount unless you have refused I. This seemed to be the case from your refusal of charity comment.

Simply put the rules say that if both parties agree to terms they are the terms followed.


To those stilll skeptikal on how insurance works go buy a car don't insure it wreck it, and then apply to insurance to get the repairs done and lemme know how it works out.
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As others have pointed out, insurance is for the seller, not the buyer. The buyer is responsible for getting the money to the seller. The seller is responsible for getting the product to the buyer. Only one of these happened in this case. If the seller wanted more money to cover insured shipping or didnt want the hassle of overseas shipping, he could have refused the sale or built the extra costs into his asking price. When he took the money, he was committing himself to delivering the product and he cant just arbitrarily say "not my problem".

I suppose the difference of opinion I have with those saying pwet was at fault is in who people think is responsible for delivering the product. As I said above, I think it has to be the sellers responsibility to get the product to the buyer and that he cant just wash his hands of it once he drops it in the mail. Until the product is in the buyers hands, the seller didnt deliver. It seems the only logical way things can work. If the seller can just arbitrarily say "I put it in the mail and its not my fault you didnt get it" and have it end there, whats to stop him from just saying he shipped it and pocketing the money? The seller can require delivery confirmation to avoid the opposite (buyer receiving item then denying he received it) but the buyer has to take the sellers word that the item even shipped even after he's already taking a bit of a leap by being the first to deliver (nobody ships before they have money in hand).

Anyway, it doesnt really matter I guess. I was indignant since pwet was the one who lost out on the deal and then a bunch of people started piling on saying it was his fault, but I should have just kept lurking. Nobody is ever going to change their mind so pontificating on the subject is either preaching to the choir or banging my head against a brick wall. At least I can go to sleep believing I made a well reasoned and logical argument on the subject and didnt have to resort to "I have more posts than you therefore I win" which is about 1 step up from "my dad can beat up your dad" (not a shot at you Damn_Animal).
 
I see where he says "this is the cheapest price, it includes 100 ins". I see where you say "ship it the cheapest way you can"

What I dont see is you insisting on insurance. You just paid 288 for something, another 20 would have fully insured it. Not why YOU chose to not fully insure it.

As for the "insured for 100"...it may be like that shipping to other countries in europe...so I am thinking it is an honest mistake on his part...but you are in France, isnt this something you would know? Or verrify as untrue?
 
cckw said:
You did not ask for insurance you opted save on import tax. Invested a huge amount of time in trying to recover this package. At one point even sent you a photo of my phone showing more then an hour on hold and the number could be googled to confirm it was the postal claim where lost packages are sent. ESAV investigated and after viewing the string of e-mail and tracking info, said he had no problem with my part of this transaction. You have been stalking me ever since. I had to put your e-mail address on my spam list.
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Your obligation as the seller is to insure the buyer gets his goods. The knife got lost in the mail then pony up his money. Pretty simple here on BFC!!!
 
good lord, how much could the import taxes possibly be?

again, I think people really should buy insurance regardless of weather or the not buyer wants it and the sellers should just increase their price!


anyone not wanting to buy insurnace is not so smart.
 
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