Cold Steel Strider rip-0ff

[Charlie Moore]

Im not sure that anyone could prove that this is the case...
Strider Knives seems to be doing fine...I cant find any posts by the supporters of Strider Knives, or of the people that work there that hint that business is down at all.

In fact, given the demand for their knives due to the war in iraq, as well as the price i see listed for the knife I wanted to get, (over $300) I got to believe that Cold steel's website is a moot point as far as effecting Strider Knives goes....

Is there any proof that Strider Knives is 'hurting" because of anything at all?

Has anyone from Strider Knives said anything about business being down for any reason at all?

Strider Knives does not have to "prove" that their business is being damaged; they merely have to provide a reasonable argument that their business is or could be being damaged -- not hard in this particular case.

In fact, the real burden of proof will rest with ColdSteel to show that their negative information about Mick Strider and Strider Knives is, in fact, true.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Strider Knives does not have to "prove" that their business is being damaged; they merely have to provide a reasonable argument that their business is or could be being damaged -- not hard in this particular case.

In fact, the real burden of proof will rest with ColdSteel to show that their negative information about Mick Strider and Strider Knives is, in fact, true.

Free legal advice is typically worth every penny you pay for it.

 

[Charlie Moore]

Free legal advice is typically worth every penny you pay for it.

I don't recall providing anyone in this thread advice. Are your suggesting that I have?

My comments in this thread are merely my opinions or beliefs -- you are correct not to attach any monetary value to them.

 

[2dogs]

I admit up front that I haven't read every post. I am just curious about one thing and that is what makes a knife a Strider besides of course the label. Is it design or steel, or usability? I don't own a Strider knife and the only CS is an old SRK I bought on sale. I'm not defending or attacking either one maker or any one person.

The only reason I'm even asking this question is that I have a knife that is very similar to a Strider or a CS GI tanto IN LOOKS. About 1984 I tried to have a knife made by Jodi Samson (at John Cooper's old business and phone number). JS was too busy to take an order but the guy working in the shop had just made a prototype knife that I ended up buying. It looks similar to a Strider or Strider knock off. The handle was cord wrapped, the sheath made by Les Lannom of "Southern Comfort". I don't think the guy that made my knife invented the style or the cord wrap.

I would imagine that Strider et al refine good working designs into sellable knives that people like to buy. The reason isn't really important, IN MY OPINION, because I think most expensive knives don't get used, regardless of how good they work for given task.I may be wrong. In my world the knife I made in high school from an old file is really all I have ever needed. Of course I have a drawer full of other knives.

In conclusion a current good working knife is a refinement of earlier designs even if just from of the maker's previous design. So, what makes a Strider a Strider.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

How can ColdSteel prominently post what they do about Strider on their ColdSteel Web Site? If this information were not true, don't you think Strider Knives would sue them and fast too?

Even if everything on Cold Steel's site about Mick is true, I think they are going to find out that the truth is not a defense for the kind of action they have taken.

 

[Allan Molstad]

Strider Knives does not have to "prove" that their business is being damaged; .

Are you sure?

I would think you would always have to....
I think I would like to see a lawyer toss me an answer about this, but as far as I know you actually have to show some type of hurt if you expect to have a valid case...

I think that being unable to show that something was any harm to you is one of the reasons why some cases get tossed out....

I keep thinking that sooner or later you have to be able to show that you were actually harmed by something,,,not just that you "could" have been harmed. Every time I get in my car I guess I "could" run into your car, but you cant take me to into court untill i cause some type of real harm...

I think....

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Okay. My bad I guess.

m1

Not at all. I was criticizing CM for suggesting Strider owed anyone a statement here on what action the company might be taking.

Anyway, it's an uninteresting assumption that the CS website is harming Strider business. I know 2 people who have definitely turned away from Cold Steel because of it.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

Anyway, it's an uninteresting assumption that the CS website is harming Strider business. I know 2 people who have definitely turned away from Cold Steel because of it.

I would doubt that it is doing Strider ant good. Just like you, I know of people that have been turned right off of Cold Steel by their actions.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Strider Knives does not have to "prove" that their business is being damaged; they merely have to provide a reasonable argument that their business is or could be being damaged -- not hard in this particular case.

In fact, the real burden of proof will rest with ColdSteel to show that their negative information about Mick Strider and Strider Knives is, in fact, true.

Sorry, Mr. Moore. I was being a wiseass. That was rude.

Speaking only of the U.S.:

A plaintiff seeking injunctive relief (preliminary injunction or temporary restraining order -- granted by court order without a jury trial) must not only prove, almost beyond doubt, that he will win on the merits at the eventual trial (where there is a right to a jury). He must ALSO prove that he is suffering immediate, ongoing injury (for example, to business reputation) that cannot be fully compensated by money damages.

The plaintiff in a defamation case must prove, by a preponderance of the evidence, every element of a cause of action/claim -- including that the statements published by the defendant were false.

In theory, a defendant in such a case can present absolutely no evidence and still prevail because the plaintiff failed to present enought evidence on every element of his claim to allow a reasonable jury to find in the plaintiff's favor.

In practice, a defendant in a defamation case will present evidence that the statements of fact that he published were accurate -- if he has such evidence.

Generally speaking, publishing the truth is not a basis for civil liability even where it hurts the competition and is designed to hurt the competition.

As always, YMMV --- but I doubt it.

 

[Allan Molstad]

He must ALSO prove that he is suffering immediate, ongoing injury .

As far as I have seen,(and I have been reading and staying up on current events) I have yet to see anyone say that Strider has suffered any injury at all.
The only reputation that I think has suffer a bit of loss has actually been Cold Steel for their website attacks. (But thats just my take on this)
But aside from that, I have not heard from anyone in the middle of this topic saying that they have been effected in anyway by the actions of another player in the story.

So far, I dont see any harm done to anyone...

If I saw a post from some Strider officals talking about, "Business is down" then thats different.

But I checked the Strider website tonight looking for a blade to send to someone, and so far I see NO SIGN of a dept-forced sale about to happen any time soon.
Things seem to be going just fine over there at Strider Knives...
There business is war knives, and business is good.

 

[Jerry Hossom]

As far as I have seen,(and I have been reading and staying up on current events) I have yet to see anyone say that Strider has suffered any injury at all.
The only reputation that I think has suffer a bit of loss has actually been Cold Steel for their website attacks. (But thats just my take on this)
But aside from that, I have not heard from anyone in the middle of this topic saying that they have been effected in anyway by the actions of another player in the story.

So far, I dont see any harm done to anyone...

If I saw a post from some Strider officals talking about, "Business is down" then thats different.

But I checked the Strider website tonight looking for a blade to send to someone, and so far I see NO SIGN of a dept-forced sale about to happen any time soon.
Things seem to be going just fine over there at Strider Knives...
There business is war knives, and business is good.

I just chose this quote as exemplary, not that it alone expresses these points.

If there is anyone here who thinks that what is on Cold Steel's website and what has been said here by indivduals and companies represented by individuals on this forum has NOT harmed Strider Knives (the company), they are naive at best. In fact, that is exactly what the Cold Steel website is intended to do. There is also a question of who on this forum have acted with that intent, being distributors of Cold Steel knives or representatives/distributors of other companies that may compete with Strider Knives.

Strider Knives is not an individual; it is not a sole proprietorship; it is not Mick Strider.

I am not an attorney and don't play one on TV, but I have to think liability for what has transpired here and elsewhere should be of serious concern to many.

For those of you who think lawsuits are filed within days or weeks of the subject event(s), and a lack of same is evidence of some truth, you'd better think again. For those who think they can sit here and judge what has or hasn't transpired within a business, Wall Steet has a job waiting for you.

I suspect there will be sufficient liability arising from this whole incident to keep a couple attorneys busy for a few days.


IP addresses are not annonymous, btw.

 

[Danno4017]

Settle down Jerry.
I am sure you are good man and mean well but.....
Insinuating that some poor bastards on here expressing a simple opinion may have their IP's tracked and be dragged before the courts is drawing a long bow.
If I said anything negative which I am pretty sure I have not then I will ask to be sent to serve in Fiji as my sentance to help keep the peace of a troubled government there. Put me up at the Hilton please.
Oh hang on, I forgot you need the Prosecuter to know about this before it can happen.
I thought if me and my defense Lawyer agreed it was a good idea then it was going to be accepted, DAM

 

[Danno4017]

"I am not an attorney and don't play one on TV, but I have to think liability for what has transpired here and elsewhere should be of serious concern to many."

You practising by playing one on the net?
We have a relationship with lawyers in this country that puts them on a similar level as Shithouse Rat.

 

[Allan Molstad]

what has been said here by indivduals and companies represented by individuals on this forum has NOT harmed Strider Knives (the company), they are naive at best. .

Well then we disagree.
Because I just dont think anyone has any chance at all of saying that "Business is down" due to anything posted here or wherever.

I believe that the Cold Steel website is a very foolish thing to have posted on a company website, and only serves to cause harm to the reputation of Cold Steel alone.

But cause any real harm to Strider Knives?.....nope.
I have not even seen a hint in the news from anyone connected to Strider Knives that the actions of anyone has cause them to say, 'Business is down because of ___"

The fact is that I think all this could well result in Strider Knives seeing business go UP from their name being tossed around.
I think it is very "interesting" that the very people that seem to be aiming to cause real harm to this guy named "Strider", also always point out that this has nothing to do with the knives that Strider makes.
The loudest voices against Strider the person, are also the voices we hear telling us that Strider's knives are darn good, and that the company stand's behind them!

No one is really going to cause much harm to a company or a person by always pointing out how great their product is and how well the guy himself stands behind his own work...LOL

If any here think that the website attacks of Cold Steel against Strider are important even slightly?
What I would want to see would be something like a number of knives ordered now as compared to before the CS website attack foolishness started?
Or some sort of comment by Strider Knives that they have noticed even a slight change in income?

So far,I dont see any sign at all the Strider Knives even cares what foolishness people from other companies do on their websites.
Now I guess that things could change in the future about how this story plays out, but so far it all sure seems to be a "wash" to me.

 

[OilMan]

Allan,
How many companies do you see discussing their private business on forums? Why do you think anyone from Strider would discuss their biz, good or bad, on a forum? Does not compute.

 

[Charlie Moore]

Sorry, Mr. Moore. I was being a wiseass. That was rude.

I did not take your comments as being rude Thomas. My only point was that if the information that ColdSteel has posted on their Web site about Strider and Strider Knives is false, then Strider Knives should not have a very hard time getting the information removed and quickly.

Key to all of this is where the truth lies.

Is not truth an absloute defense regarding claims of defamation in United States?

 

[Danno4017]

I do not know US law but in most countries I thought you would be able to get an injunction to stop this sort of advertising until it went to Court.

 

[Jerry Hossom]

Danno, I doubt my suggestion that Strider has been harmed by these discussions is far off the mark by anyone's standards, except maybe Allan's.

We all are at some level held liable for what we say about others, particularly if the intent is to cause them harm. Whether that rises to the level of an actionable event is something else and I'm not suggesting there are any threats of such, but there is indeed a limit to what you are allowed to say in public that may cause harm to others. That's why there are legal remedies for Slander and Libel. My comment about IP addresses was simply to remind people that the internet is not annonymous so you really can't get away with saying just anything you want simply because your screen name is XXXXXX and your info fields are blank.

The issue I was trying to make is the FACT that a number of people have posted here who are indeed Strider competitors (directly or indirectly) and may have caused harm to Strider Knives (the company). We certainly know that Cold Steel has that intent. The extent to which Strider has been harmed is at this point impossible to tell. These discussions could have very longterm consequences.

I want to reiterate that Strider Knives is not a sole propietorship, the individuals and entities who are harmed by these discussions are known only by a few, and taking legal action is expensive, time consumming and is generally conducted for the benefit of the plaintiff and not the curiosity of the public.

 

[Allan Molstad]

to stop this sort of advertising until it went to Court.

Perhaps , but down the line you still would have to prove that something has actually hurt knife sales....you would have to have proof that the number of knife orders was down, or that a goverment contract was lost, or something in black and white is different, or else there is no point in walking into court in the first place.

Now I do not expect the leadership of Strider Knives to log onto an internet forum and confess their busness problems with the world, but I would expect there to be some hints dropped along our path too.

So far, I dont even see a slight hint that Strider Knives is now or has ever been effected by the Cold Steel foolishness....
As for the question has Cold Steel ripped-off strider designs?
I am not an expert, but as I know that every knife is designed based on the many ideas that came before it, I would not say that cold Steel was a rip-off artist....they are at most just another follower and not a leader in this case.

 

[Danno4017]

Danno, I doubt my suggestion that Strider has been harmed by these discussions is far off the mark by anyone's standards, except maybe Allan's.

We all are at some level held liable for what we say about others, particularly if the intent is to cause them harm. Whether that rises to the level of an actionable event is something else and I'm not suggesting there are any threats of such, but there is indeed a limit to what you are allowed to say in public that may cause harm to others. That's why there are legal remedies for Slander and Libel. My comment about IP addresses was simply to remind people that the internet is not annonymous so you really can't get away with saying just anything you want simply because your screen name is XXXXXX and your info fields are blank.

The issue I was trying to make is the FACT that a number of people have posted here who are indeed Strider competitors (directly or indirectly) and may have caused to harm Strider knives. We certainly know that Cold Steel has that intent. The extent to which Strider has been harmed is at this point impossible to tell. These discussions could have very longterm consequences.

Fair enough Jerry.
This whole situation needs to come to a head and be resolved.