Cold Steel Strider rip-0ff

While my personal opinion is that LT has all the morals and ethics of a sewer rat, I have to ask this of those mentioning liabily, court cases, etc.

Isn't the truth defense against libel? In order to successfully sue, wouldn't strider need to show that what was being said, and possibly hurting Strider's business, is untrue?
 
Jerry Hossom said:
Danno, I doubt my suggestion that Strider has been harmed by these discussions is far off the mark by anyone's standards, except maybe Allan's.

We all are at some level held liable for what we say about others, particularly if the intent is to cause them harm. Whether that rises to the level of an actionable event is something else and I'm not suggesting there are any threats of such, but there is indeed a limit to what you are allowed to say in public that may cause harm to others. That's why there are legal remedies for Slander and Libel. My comment about IP addresses was simply to remind people that the internet is not annonymous so you really can't get away with saying just anything you want simply because your screen name is XXXXXX and your info fields are blank.

The issue I was trying to make is the FACT that a number of people have posted here who are indeed Strider competitors (directly or indirectly) and may have caused to harm Strider knives. We certainly know that Cold Steel has that intent. The extent to which Strider has been harmed is at this point impossible to tell. These discussions could have very longterm consequences.
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Well, if a case comes, the claims and counter-claims they'll be met with will lead to an interesting time to say the least. There are limits to what you are allowed to say about people, true. It'll be interesting to see what's offered as proof though.
 
I had about 10 distractions while writing my last post so some of what I said was convoluted and difficult to follow. I tried to clarify that with my edit, so those of you who have quoted me may want to revisit my post. It was not my intent to mislead, and I honestly didn't expect such an immediate response to what I said (or didn't say well).

I apologize for the inconvenience.
 
Jerry Hossom said:
I honestly didn't expect such an immediate response .
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But I got nothing else to do for the next hour except read your words...lol

(I just really didnt understand the sentence you used, I could not tell your aim, or direction you were pointing in. However I perhaps should have re-read it a few more times too)
 
Based on what I've seen LT is probably saying, "bring it on." Anyone that thinks he didn't think it through, edit, re-edit and study before finally selecting the final draft for public viewing is assuming a lot I think. I think he was very careful, tactful in fact and more than likely legally advised to keep it such that it could only be slander if anything said were not true.

Even still what he did may have hurt his own business as much if not more than it did anyone elses but then again his knives are a different league of price altogether than those he is speaking about from Strider.

In the unlikely event that LT gambled some its probably a safe gamble that someone with a 'past' particularly a sorted one involving hiding secrets that have come out publically in past trials before may more than likely still be hiding some others that would likely come up with another public trial or law suit.

STR
 
it then shows how different the same thing can appear to different people.
For I found The Cold Steel wording childish.

The tone of the website seemed to me needlessly too personal.
The idea I came away with is that the website attack was just the latest round in a long-standing, bitter little battle between two guys who really spend a lot of time thinking about the other guy...

The website tended to appear to me to be a very bad reflection of the Cold Steel company as a whole.
But I dont think it actually caused Strider or Strider Knives any real harm.
It's more or less a wash as far as that goes...

But the real harm here is that to the reputation of Cold steel.
That the company would allow itself to be so swept up in such un-checked angry zeal, that it would post such things on it's own company website.

It just seems like business is business, and that anyone's personal problems should not be dragged into your worksite like this.
 
I'd like to see what you are reading then. Has he changed it or something? I don't remember it being much different than some other things I've read unless he has added or edited again since I first checked it out.

I'll look again.

STR
 
STR said:
I'll look again.
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Good, because to tell the truth I have not been back to that link after it was first found and posted on the forum.

I have heard that there have been some changes to the attack webpage, and I talked here about the need to allow people to go back and change post and websites once "cooler heads" return.

I remember it was the way the writer of the Cold Steel attack website seemed a bit too upset over the "Rockstar" image that he had heard connected to Strider...I just felt that the Cold Steel writer was almost jelous of the way Strider was viewed by others...
 
It really doesn't matter what it may say now. What matters is what it has said, EVER. You don't get an "oops, I'll take that part back" in these cases. I'm pretty sure everything said by everyone in this matter is well recorded and witnessed.
 
Jerry Hossom said:
It really doesn't matter what it may say now. What matters is what it has said, EVER. You don't get an "oops, I'll take that part back" in these cases. I'm pretty sure everything said by everyone in this matter is well recorded and witnessed.
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Well, I wouldn't go that far. It's true most of this has probably been recorded, but it's a lot more complicated than you make it out to be, Jerry. As stated repeatedly through this, the truth & reasonable belief & opinion are all valid defenses. Furthermore, it's interesting that people can excuse lying when done to promote someone, but when the truth comes out they froth at the mouth for people to be sued.
 
Jerry Hossom said:
You don't get an "oops, I'll take that part back" in these cases. .
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There is another place where I find that I disagree.

I believe that people should always be offered the chance to change websites or change postings on forums to better reflect how they feel now about something.

This is far better than forever being stuck with a past posting on a forum, or a past webpage that was writen in anger, or under the effect of drugs or cheap women.

If we, the readers of this forum dont always allow people to go back and edit their past remarks, we are in effect putting a stop to anyone being able to change their minds in the future!

The most common idea behind a Message Forum is that with reason and arguement, calm minds can learn from each other, and points of view can change over time.
This is all pointless if we dont allow people to change!
And no one is going to ever see the point in a change of heart if they are going to be forever stuck to their past posts with no hope of getting free of them.

This is why I believe that whatever has been posted in the past, is in the past, and that in order to help people get into a mind-set where a change of heart has a chance, we have to allow them the chance to change in the here and now, and in the future.

Let the dead bury the dead, for we are amoung the living.
We are alive now, and can change, the dead can not.
Not allowing people to change their past internet posts makes them dead to future change.
That is why we should not stop people from saying to themselves in secret, "oops, I'll take that part back",and then editing their on-line past posts to reflect a new point of view.
 
It sure is complicated Spark and that's why the lawyers that get hired to sue and defend should it ever get that far will make lots of dough.

In the end there will be a winner, a loser and a bunch of lawyers very happy this type of stuff exists...............
 
Danno4017 said:
I do not know US law but in most countries I thought you would be able to get an injunction to stop this sort of advertising until it went to Court.
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Alas, we have this Constitution thing that gets in the way of some judicial tyranny.

(And no attorney fees automatically given to the prevailing party in civil actions.)
 
Jerry Hossom said:
We all are at some level held liable for what we say about others, particularly if the intent is to cause them harm. Whether that rises to the level of an actionable event is something else and I'm not suggesting there are any threats of such, but there is indeed a limit to what you are allowed to say in public that may cause harm to others.
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Bad motives do not make an otherwise lawful action (e.g. publishing accurate, if harmful, facts) unlawful.

That's why there are legal remedies for Slander and Libel.
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Absolutely. But to prevail in such actions for defamation, the plaintiff must prove, amoungst other elements, falsity and injury. Proving the publisher acted in a slimmy fashion out of slimmy motives is not enough.

My comment about IP addresses was simply to remind people that the internet is not annonymous so you really can't get away with saying just anything you want simply because your screen name is XXXXXX and your info fields are blank.
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How true. I especially think of that each time I read threats or vows of physical violence or comments that failure to keep a promise makes the promise-breaker a "thief" or "crook."

I want to reiterate that Strider Knives is not a sole propietorship, the individuals and entities who are harmed by these discussions are known only by a few, and taking legal action is expensive, time consumming and is generally conducted for the benefit of the plaintiff and not the curiosity of the public.
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Certainly, SKI is a distinct "person" under the law, with it's own interests and rights to bring legal actions and suits. However, I have read no negative comments about SKI. Instead, I have read many positive comments about SKI and its products.
 
Thomas Linton said:
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Instead, I have read many positive comments about SKI and its products.
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Had Strider not stood behind their knives then I would support Cold Steel attacking them of their website.

But this is not about knives and knife companies , it's about anger.
Cold Steel , via their website, is clearly very angry at Strider.

Well, Im not angry at anyone.
If there is some information about Strider knives that you think is important to share with guys like me in the market for a knife , then lets see it.

But sending me links to internet message forums where guys are just shooting the bull about stuff, is not really going to sway me to think anything.
I dont believe anything posted on forums anyway..

I have shared that I find the actions of the Cold Steel guy not very helpfull in this case, and only harmfull to his own reputation.

As for Strider?
I have checked the listed links of his so-called lies, and I just dont think there is anything clear enough connected to him to get so upset about.
I have noticed that Strider is a clever forum poster, and always seems to write his posts about himself in a style that could be taken different ways.

The tone of many of Strider's posts is also needlessly angry and not showing as good of manners to others as I would have suggested.
At times he appears to be a real jerk.
But when he is looked at as just a knife maker, then he seems to be ranked with the best out there as far as company reputations go...
 
Charlie Moore said:
do you still think there are no negative comments about SKI?
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I don't see any real big attack against the company,
It reads more like one guy personally attacking another...

The way he objects a little too much about the "Rockstar" stuff , thats where we see that this is just all personal.
 
I see that. He doesn't like Dex's view point so he goes public with it rather than just write him about that part that doesn't sit well with him or write the editor to comment that way. LT probably assumes they treat negative comments there and everywhere else the way CS does by filing those away in a little can in the corner called file 13.

The rest I can see no differently than anything else already out there about Mick since it is all old news now to most of us.

STR
 
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