Cold Steel Strider rip-0ff

[hardheart]

excellent post

 

[Cobalt]

What motivates Lynn is money not patriotism. Outsourcing his product line entirely out to china is obvious.

Whatever the case maybe Lynn should advertize this:

 

[hardheart]

wasn't that recon scout USA made? (and the same manufacturer/steel as the Becker line)

lol @ Starter jacket in background

 

[roughedges]

hey! I did something very similar to a Cold Steel LTC kukri, made a thread about it awhile back.

 

[jill jackson]

Really, what's the difference between CS ad copy and Dark Ops? Overwrought puffery designed to attract attention to sell knives. And the product lines? Import copies of other designers work - intended to look the same, sold cheap to grab the impulse dollar from knife users with no clue about construction or intellectual property concerns.

I didn't know Dark Ops Imported anything in their line?(In fact they are marked USA and the website states they are made in the USA) I've never read anything in Dark Ops ads saying anything about Extreme Ratio.

 

[T.K.C.]

As far as I am concerned that statement by Cold Steel as low as it gets. They can stick their knives where the sun don't shine.

I am with you 100% here!!

 

[wh4f]

............

 

[wh4f]

............

 

[STR]

All the Carbon V blades were USA made ones. The products hold up fairly well from CS. Lots of LEO, Military, and Emergency crew workers carry and use their products everyday. Many have for years and buy a new one when an old one gets lost or finally gives out also. You have to separate the man from the product to see their true worth.

Honestly, much as I hate to admit it if I was in the service still with my new born son, my wife and living in gov. quarters barely scraping by and got transferred to Iraq with new orders I'd never even look at the ZT 0100, or Strider or any other knife of that ilk. Its not in budget and therefore a pipe dream that only a self centered irresponsible butt head would consider rather than buy a Cold Steel factory second Recon Scout or Tanto, Kabar regular Buck or some other less money alternative knife they can truly afford.

Much as I love the knives alls I can figure is that the Strider and ZT lines along with the Emerson and other high dollar ones are geared toward commissioned corp military personel because no enlisted people I knew could afford that kind of expense for a beat em up knife they planned to take to war even when it was ordered at the PX with the millie discount. In fact the only people on active duty that I know now that carry one of those type knives are the ones I gave one to or ones that recieved one as a gift from some other outside source. They are just too darn much money for most guys that have families while serving in the enlisted corp.

STR

 

[Helle]

Well after reading all of this and following a crap load of links around all I can say is good for Mick, he's walking talking proof the system can work, he messed up in his life, payed the price for his mistake, and turned out to be a legitimate benefit to society, and generous with the companies success, IMO.:thumbup:
And Lynn is for Lynn, but he fills a needed niche and has been around a long time, so his methods and product must work.

Going to buy a Strider in future.
Helle

 

[Cougar Allen]

I'm moving this to TGB&U. Carry on....

 

[Vaako]

Oh what the heck, why not. It's Saturday and the temperature is still dropping outside. I'd like to stick Al Gore out there right now. Global Warming, my arse. Anyway...

Why do you keep saying the real strider is a rip off of an Emerson?

...because the profile is identical and the grind is substantially the same. Let's try this again:

Ernest Emerson designed (and if he didn't, could someone please chime in) a hybrid of the kiriha zukuri tanto and the bowie. This blade combined a tanto with its point in the center of the blade and a straight clip back bowie. Are we still on the same page? That style of blade became popular thanks to Ernest Emerson's CQC series, the same way the original kiriha zukuri tanto profile became popular thanks to Cold Steel. When Strider uses Ernest Emerson's very distinctive blade design, they're profiting from someone else's work/ innovation without paying them for it. That's a very detailed way of saying they're "ripping it off". Changing the style of grind, when everything else about the blade profile is identical doesn't change the fact that it's still an Emerson innovation.

Because it's a tanto? The knives are TOTALLY different. The specwar has a completely different handle ergos, it looks like rubber of some sort, it's also CHISLE GROUND.

I was discussing the blade profile as I mentioned in my earlier post. Putting a different handle on someone else's blade design or changing it to simplify production doesn't make it a "new" design. Using that logic, the Cold Steel knife is "different" because the forward guard at the base of the choil is radiused not square and it has a different style of cord wrap.

Come on, Have you really ever heard of a strider failing? Everyone that finally buys a strider become strider addicts, Like Busse people.

I wasn't discussing Strider's failure rate. I was refuting the claim you made and I quote: The knives perform better than almost any knife. I then gave two examples I would bet money could beat the Strider in prying strength: The CS Trailmaster or the Mission Knives MPK. You've given a third brand: Busse Knives. A fourth would likely be Chris Reeves' fixed blades. A fifth brand would be Merc Worx. I'll leave the exhaustive testing to Cliff Stamp who succeeded in breaking his Strider, but not his Busse. So there are many brands of comparable knives, not just a few, that would outperform a Strider.

How can knives that perform in the top % of all knives made, that even if it does fail will be fixed or replaced, And has a warrenty that fallows the knife not the original owner, And a knife that when you buy it and keep it for awhile,you can accually sell it or trade it for way more than the original msrp, IN ANY WAY be a rip-off?

You quoted me but I'm not sure you understood what you quoted: There are comparable, better finished knives that cost less, which certainly is a fact. Ek Knives, for example, also offers "one piece" cord wrapped knives with finer finishes, more careful grinding, at lower cost. Chris Reeves offers "one piece" fixed blades (not counting the butt cap) that are much more technically complex, better ground, at comparable prices. If a Strider is more expensive and less well made, then it's overpriced and therefore a rip-off.

As for the knives you listed, cold steel DOES NOT MAKE KNIVES they are a marketing firm. None of the knives you mentioned where made in a cold steel production shop in the U.S. because there AREN'T ANY. Those where made by Camillus.

Some old Sheffield brands used to "outsource" their work to individual crafstmen in surrounding towns, too. If it's the Cold Steel "brand" and the knife is made in the USA (as all Carbon V knives are), then Cold Steel knives are made in the USA.

The CS knife in question is an exact reproduction of a Strider. Everything is the same.the blade, the gaurd is exact, even down to the slant on the pommel, that most striders have, even buck/striders.

Look again. Striders have a square cross guard, Cold Steel's is radiused. You were quick to claim that a very minor difference in grind style somehow makes Strider's tanto different from Ernest Emerson's. Using your logic, a different crossguard/choil must make the Cold Steel knife "different" as well.

a good knife is a good knife. cold Steel knives are for the most part sub-par and over priced

At the risk of mimicking you unfairly, how often do you hear of Carbon V knives failing? It can happen to any knife if it's abused hard enough. The whole "Cold Steel Challenge" was built around their performance. That's also where Lynn Thompson started making enemies because it took a long time before a few companies could consistently meet that challenge.

VAAKO I don't understand why every post you've made on this topic, is defending cold steel

I'm not "defending" Cold Steel as much as showing that Strider isn't any different in similar areas.

You're defending Cold steel ripping off a Strider knife

...who ripped the blade design off from Ernest Emerson. What goes around comes around. Since you asked, no, I'm not friends with Lynn Thompson and you're right, he is a bloated jerk. So is Mick Strider, in addition to being a blade copycat like Thompson. If it comes down to it, those extended "Strider" pry butts were first seen on John Ek's knives over 60 years ago.

And whats this supposed to mean-
Quote by Vaako:
...another typically incisive remark showing both the intelligence and character of the Strider crowd. It was polite and civil until you started flaming. Good job.

If you read the post, I wasn't speaking to you. I was criticizing the poor behavior of someone else. In that case, the "Strider crowd" consisted of Mick Strider who has a reputation for being abusive and the "fan" who was flaming me.

I'm in the strider crowd. I have knives, t-shirts. I edc 3 every day. I have the logo with the sword and wings tattoo'd on my forearm.

Rat Finkenstein, I apologize for calling you a fanboy a few weeks ago. To my knowledge, you've never admitted to having the Busse logo permanently embedded into your flesh. That's taking "brand identification" to a whole new level. God help him if Strider ever updates their logo.

Really, what's the difference between CS ad copy and Dark Ops?

Good question. Here's another: what's the difference between Strider and Dark Ops?

1.) "High speed tools for hard core individuals"

2.) "Made by operators for operators in the greatest country in the world!"

3.) "sometimes the initials are those of a warrior or hero we wish to show our respect."

4.) "the new choice of operational warriors throughout the globe"

5.) "Our only competition is death"

6.) "The finest tactical fighting knives in history"

7.) "The Nightmare grind", "The Triangle Of Doom"

8.) "The Splitter Hilt", "The RaptorLok"

A Gold Star and an extra ten minutes of recess on Monday to the first person who figures out which ad copy comes from Strider's site and which comes from Dark Ops!

 

[JimConvex]

Since you actually can't patent a Blade Profile as opposed to a lock or combination of features--I could care less who makes what knife or who else makes it or where it actually came from.

There are very few new ones and if you go back far enough , you probably will find it anyway.

I really don't even care where Cold Steel makes their knives. They never cared about jobs or American Manufacturing anyway.

I do find the website copy for this product, regardless of it's origins, to be offensive.

A product should stand on it's own merits. If it needs reference to some other product or person, in a negative way, it is not something I am interested in ever seeing or purchasing.

I am afraid that Mr. Thompson has gone overboard on this one and I will never look at any of his products again.

I don't have any Strider Knives and know very little about how they perform. It is no longer relevant to this subject. I do know about Mr. Strider's past, from reading about it on forums ,and it is no longer relevant to this subject.

This is a very childish person, in a position of power, going too far in self promotion with no regard for how it may hurt others.

I may be the only one who thinks this way but that will be my position on all future concerns about Cold Steel.

Jim

 

[jill jackson]

I'd say Strider is 1, 3, 5, 7 Dark Ops 2,4,6,8 ? Just a guess .

 

[j.h]

Everyone has their opinions of what they like and don't like. None of that matters.

For cold steal to post something like that on their web page is all the explanation needed as to why so many have chosen to never own any of their products.

Un-effing-believable.

 

[Chambers]

Having read the copy several times, and even using the Ctrl+F function to search for the word "Strider" nothing comes up. I'm a little confused here.

The copy specifically says: convicted felons and rip off artists posing as elite “military operators".

Nowhere does it say Strider. So the only thing to link it to Strider is everyone here saying that he's talking about Strider. You guys are the ones making the mental leap from: convicted felons and rip off artists posing as elite “military operators” to: Mick Strider.

So what you're saying is

convicted felons and rip off artists posing as elite “military operators”

=

Mick Strider.

I wonder why you all would intuitively make that mental leap.

Get a grip folks we did this discussion a few years back when Lynn used the same terminology in one of his articles that came out in the CS catalog. All the Strider panties went WAY up in simultaneous wads across the nation.
Same old same old. Lynn has never and will never specifically mention Strider and he will continue to take pot shots when and where he can get away with it. Grow up guys. This is seriously grade school level stuff here. If you don't like the knives, don't buy them. Don't go crying to the teacher because Lynn called Mick a doody head.

 

[Vaako]

I'd say Strider is 1, 3, 5, 7 Dark Ops 2,4,6,8 ? Just a guess .

Yep!

Copying somebody else's blade profile maybe legal, but it's still cutting into the innovator's profits.

Since you know more about it than I do (patent law was never my strong point) Jim, how is MOD going to patent Besh Wedge technology?

MOD is also pursuing patent application for Besh Wedge Technology to ensure that Beshara receives proper credit and protection for his innovative design. ​

Is a double edged dagger grind a feature or a profile? One thing's for certain. There won't be any cord-wrap commando versions unless Mr. Beshara sees some money from it.

 

[HoB]

who's berger?

Berger is Mick Strider's alter ego. Strider's name used to be Berger, before he committed armed car jacking during which a weapon was discharged (read: aggravated armed robbery/serious felony) got caught and convicted and served time. After he got out of prison, he changed his name (supposedly inspired by Aragon's alter ego from Lord of the Rings...I think Tolkin would be deeply offended). His friend Duane's name is on the Strider company, because he, as a convicted felon is ineligeable to secure a military contract, of which he's got a few. It also seems that his claim to have served oversees as a Ranger (a claim which he has used extensively has advertisement for his goods) does not hold water either. Seems he had to wimp out during basic training and never achieved full Ranger status let alone being deployed oversees. (The above is btw. all matter of public record and not really subject to discussion as some will want to make you believe).

To me the moral and ethical basis of the Strider company is about as low as it gets, but that is no excuse for CS and Lynn Thomson to join Strider in the moral abyss or to enter a competition with them to see who can behave more despicably :jerkit: .

There are many solid US knife companies, who still do a good number of steps in house, some of which are family owned, who make a good product for a good price. There are other companies who have contracts with companies oversees, but who also operate on good, solid, decent and honorable business principles. IMHO you don't have to raise the moral bar much nor do you have to limit your choices significantly to avoid buying from either company.

Rat: Ever since I looked up the meaning of douchbag I just have to :barf: when I see that word.... And your Avatars totally gross me out, where the hell do you find these aweful pictures (the last one was the worst). But I love your posts .

 

[Chambers]

Berger is Mick Strider's alter ego. Strider's name used to be Berger, before he committed armed car jacking during which a weapon was discharged (read: aggravated armed robbery/serious felony) got caught and convicted and served time. After he got out of prison, he changed his name (supposedly inspired by Aragon's alter ego from Lord of the Rings...I think Tolkin would be deeply offended). His friend Duane's name is on the Strider company, because he, as a convicted felon is ineligeable to secure a military contract, of which he's got a few. It also seems that his claim to have served oversees as a Ranger (a claim which he has used extensively has advertisement for his goods) does not hold water either. Seems he had to wimp out during basic training and never achieved full Ranger status let alone being deployed oversees. (The above is btw. all matter of public record and not really subject to discussion as some will want to make you believe).

To me the moral and ethical basis of the Strider company is about as low as it gets

Oh dude that was beautiful...

 

[hardheart]

This is a very childish person, in a position of power, going too far in self promotion with no regard for how it may hurt others.

I agree

wait, which one are you talking about...