Cold Steel Strider rip-0ff

Personally, I just think that LT marches to his own drummer and doesn't care what anyone else thinks of what he does. He obviously feels that it is his duty to bring to people's attention things about the knife industry that he feels are wrong.[/QUOTE]

You mean like stealing other knife makers designs?? Because that is what CS does all the time. So I don't really think he is the one to out other people on what he may think is wrong, or what they may or may not have done!!!!:barf:
 
Firecap said:
Personally, I just think that LT marches to his own drummer and doesn't care what anyone else thinks of what he does. He obviously feels that it is his duty to bring to people's attention things about the knife industry that he feels are wrong.
Click to expand...

You mean like stealing other knife makers designs?? Because that is what CS does all the time. So I don't really think he is the one to out other people on what he may think is wrong, or what they may or may not have done!!!!:barf:[/QUOTE]

Besides the Strider design, can you tell me what others he has stolen?
 
This being my first post, I would like to thank all of the members of this forum first. My knowledge of the subject matter has been greatly improved by eveyone's contributions, and I am thankful.

That being said, I have been reading this thread for a few days, and actually feel that something crucial has been ignored. It seems that everyone is avoiding the elephant in the room. Perhaps this is just a perspective of a newbie...

I think CS/LT have committed an unspeakable sin in the knife industry. Not so much an issue of design theft or marketing, but more like revealing a magicians secret. When looking at another thread tonight (what EDC do you carry), the responses were more about bragging than conversation. People listed the make and model of their car keys, model of PDA, designer wallet, custom handguns, etc. Not so much about what gear they carry, but the "quality of life" they enjoy (and thusly, their worth/success/wealth etc)

Then it jumped out at me...CS (as supported by the Knifetest video) has made (imported/ordered/whatever) a blade that is MSRP 1/10th the price of the Strider, but is actually a pretty good device. All of a sudden, I wonder if this is LT's crime? He revealed that the Strider design can be improved on (handle tang and butt), do a good job, and list for $18 at most online vendors? Now it seems all the "industry insiders", who are all friends, and hang out at Blade shows together are quickly circling the wagons. Insults, accusations, flame wars and testimonials have all ensued, but I (as a newbie) am left with the feeling that a $350 buys the consumer a $100 knife and $250 in bragging rights, status, and image. There was even a fellow who talked of a carrying 3 Striders daily, and had their logo put on his body...permanently. I am not attacking him, but this gross allegiance to brand name consumerism is one of my biggest fears for this country...we are all guilty. It really seems that the Strider customer is getting a good knife, but what they are really buying (and people say LT is the marketing zealot) is the tough-guy, spec-ops, "been there" image.

Why this thread has gone so out of control, IMHO, is that marketing secret has been revealed, and sadly, seems pretty suspect (if the allegations are true...I'm not even touching that). Point being, If consumers were paying for that image (please look at the copy for the Buck/Striders, where "Mick says grind the handles off yourself" and makes insinuations that not everyone is man enough for these knives) and it was a graven Idol...what does that say about the consumer? I know if I spent hundreds, if not thousands on a brand of blades, partly due to the image that they project...I would be far more inclined to defend that company than admit that I was duped (but there would be rage to direct somewhere). It is that image that makes them more expensive than CRK knives...and the subtle assurance that if it good enough for the "operators" it is good enough for me.

The only question I have left (to figure out myself), is when blade shopping, how am I to figure out what blades, designers, and price tags are legit...and which ones are are simply selling through fanboy loyalties, hype and marketing. Thankfully, I have found this forum to help me do some real reserch...thanks to all for that.

Funny though...it is the reaction to CS/LT that has made me skeptical about the knife industry's marketing and prices...not LT/CS themselves.
 
After reading my post, I'm not sure if I addressed my main point clearly enough. Please allow me to give an example of what I mean:

I managed a mobile phone store for about 6 years. In that time, I dealt with the Palm Treo 300, 600, 650, 700. Those were the devices for the movers and shakers. If you were at all anyone in the business world, that was the device to have. The reviews, Wall Steet Journal, and even the online tech magazines all agreed...it was the greatest tool EVER.

At the store level, our joke was that everyone should be issued two...because the first one will break. IMHO...terrible device. I know, as I had to deal with the repairs and warranty swaps. However, people are still lining up for the next incarnation. It is overpriced and can be very unreliable...and still one of the best selling mobile devices on the market. The funny thing was, MOST never even used it for email, scheduling, or backed it up...they would have been netter served with a basic (free) phone.

I'm not saying Striders or CS knives are bad...just pointing out that people will buy what makes them look good, even in the face of an entire sales staff urging them not too...
 
Keith Montgomery said:
Besides the Strider design, can you tell me what others he has stolen?
Click to expand...

Keith, I can think of one other: the Black Talon. A Civilian clone, and before the current version there was one in the catalogs for about 5 minutes that looked even more like a Civilian, if that's possible.
 
I hate to tell you all, but there really isn't anything new in the knife business. You can design a knife in a closet by yourself with no input and, when you finished, it will look like some other design done by someone else at some other time.

I submit that it is almost impossible to design a knife that doesn't look something like something that came before it. The Black Talon isn't a Civilian clone. It is a folder with an S shaped hawkbill blade. So is the Civilian. Would you call every drop point hunter a clone of the thousands of other drop point hunters that came before it? Does the industry now need to stop making knives because they might make a blade that someone somewhere thinks looks something like another one? Sorry, folks, you're being very unrealistic.
 
LOL! Now you're talking! :D $20 on Thompson. He may look like a chubby little dude, but CS' prez has studied with some pretty serious people over the years, Felix Valencia and the Dog Brothers being a few of them.

Lynn would just throw a Badaxe and split him in half, would never make it to a fight at all :D


I think there is a place in this world for both. You have the working man and everyday grunts who need a good knife at a fair price and CS fits the bill. You have people who have been blessed financially who would not think twice about price when purchasing a knife, thus Strider knives were born. So I personally think both manufactures can do business in peacfull harmony and still succeed.

No wha I say'n :p
 
EdgeOn said:
The Black Talon isn't a Civilian clone.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is.

EdgeOn said:
I submit that it is almost impossible to design a knife that doesn't look something like something that came before it.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to think of another large S-shape bladed folder with hole in the blade and pretty much all I can think of is the Matriarch. What was the earlier knife that Sal could possibly have copied to make the Civilian? Or did nothing like it exist?

The original Black Talon even had a round opening hole, IIRC. Your position doesn't have much to stand on, at least in this case.
 
Nothing like it existed. My point is that, if you are going to call an s shaped hawkbill blade a clone then you need to call a drop point blade a clone or a dagger a clone. You can't have it both ways.
 
Morpeus said:
I think there is a place in this world for both. You have the working man and everyday grunts who need a good knife at a fair price and CS fits the bill. You have people who have been blessed financially who would not think twice about price when purchasing a knife, thus Strider knives were born. So I personally think both manufactures can do business in peacfull harmony and still succeed.
Click to expand...

For the record, I have the CS GI Combat on my desk next to a Strider DB-L and a Mad Dog Texas Hunter. So far, they have gotten along without throwing papers at each other, but I'll not leave them unattended for long :D

My money's on the Dog if they get frisky with each other, but if they looked at me and saw a soft, pink 190 pound piece of meat without armor, oh crap, one of them looked this way, now it's whispering to the others, I gotta go.....:eek:
 
EdgeOn said:
Nothing like it existed. My point is that, if you are going to call an s shaped hawkbill blade a clone then you need to call a drop point blade a clone or a dagger a clone. You can't have it both ways.
Click to expand...
The drop point and the dagger are old designs, and I would say they were originally ripped off too. Unfortunately, they were ripped off so long ago in the past and the designers have been dead for so long that there's no point in saying much about it. On the other hand, you can walk up to Sal Glesser and shake his hand at a knife show in 2007. In 200 years, if there are thousands of copies of Civilians floating around, then I'll grandfather them into the same category as daggers.
 
If I am not mistaken, Cold Steel and Spyderco came to an agreement on the use of the patented bladeshape of the Civilian. At least that is what Sal posted awhile back.

A lot of people point to the theft of the Axis/Ultra lock. There is a licensing agreement in place between Benchmade and CS, so CS didn't steal that design. Some point to the opening feature on the AK-47 and the Talwar as a theft of the Emerson Wave. It is no such thing. That opening system is either patented or has a patent pending issued to Andrew Demko, the designer of the AK-47. Besides that, it doesn't in any way resemble the Emerson Wave.
 
What Keith said. At least regarding Spyderco's reverse S-curve and Thompson's use of it.

The bitter irony is that, elsewhere, the original poster was offering to provide unlicensed aftermarket waves as a value-added feature to other peoples' knives - violating Emerson's patent - and yet was upset that Thompson is marketing an almost-copy of a knife which was neither trademarked nor patented.

Joe, I hope you find peace, give the promised knives to Flyer35, and enjoy a bright future as a chef and knifemaker. Well, Flyer35 first, then peace and success, but the sentiment's the same.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top