Cold Steels Blade Weaknesses

Here is an impromptu poem.

Who’s the shillinest shilling shill? That’s right!
Still Spinning the spin & Shilling the shill when all other shills have had their fill! Heck yeah!
Is he LT? Heck no! He is just a shill!
DngrRuss1!
 
Ouch...
That hurt...
No, really, I mean it. That was just too creative and loaded with enough satire and and sarcasm to deride anything I have ever said on this forum. Wow, you really are an incredible wordsmith and I am in awe of your intellectual and informational superiority.

Oh, and go screw yourself...:jerkit:
 
DngrRuss1 said:
Ouch...
That hurt...
No, really, I mean it. That was just too creative and loaded with enough satire and and sarcasm to deride anything I have ever said on this forum. Wow, you really are an incredible wordsmith and I am in awe of your intellectual and informational superiority.

Oh, and go screw yourself...:jerkit:
Click to expand...

Creative?- Maybe, since it took me all of a minute to write.
Sarcastic?- hardly, I think it was pretty straightforward and to the point.

Hmm, your poem is less creative, but I might give it a C Minus for trying.
Kind of lost your train of thought there at the end, but not a bad first effort.

tongue.gif
tongue.gif


Still, a Shill.
 
Okay, let's step back a minute. If we were all discussing this in person, we'd probably all not start a fight over this and just agree to disagree. So let's forget that this is the internet for a while.

Cold Steel, and more specifically Lynn Thompson, elicits strong emotional responses from knife enthusiasts. Why? Simple. CS operates very differently than most knife companies. How did most of the big knife companies start? With a highly skilled craftsman and a dream. Craftsmen don't market knives like consumables. They don't need to. CS takes the mainstream goods approach: hype, hype, and more hype. But it's not simply for the sake of tricking you into buying something. Lynn Thompson is a fanatic, and he's ridiculously excited about his product. And he wants you to be ridiculously excited about it, too. Watch the DVDs. There's a lot of stuff there that would've met the cutting room floor if your average corporate exec. got their hands on it. But Lynn is just a big kid having fun and showing off his toys. I know a guy a lot like that, and he's tons of fun, but I wouldn't necessarily buy anything from him. The reason is simple: he's usually speaking out of his enthusiasm rather than a base of facts. In my opinion, LT mixes the two and what you get is a few attractive facts stirred into a whole lot of infomercialesque (yes, new word) exaggeration.

The Proof DVDs seem to be a major sore spot for people. Obviously, not every knife they sell will stand up to those displays. From what I've read, many CS products suffer from inconsistent quality. Like they used to say about the old GI 1911s, about 1 in 50 was actually of the quality they were known for. THe knives used in those demonstrations are obviously from the top of the barrel. Anyone who buys a knife based on some crazy stunt they saw on a DVD should not blame the manufacturer but themselves for not being rational. This doesn't require any more skepticism than most of your everyday interactions with other salesmen. When the big automakers in Detroit want to sell a car, they quote peak horsepower numbers that are essentially meaningless for the average driver, but sound impressive. They get these numbers by running a pristine motor on an engine brake dyno in an air-conditioned room. The word is marketing. But CS does somthing that most won't: they stand behind their claims. If you wreck your car doing something stupid, you better have good insurance, or you're going to be walking to work. If you do something stupid and destroy a CS knife, they replace it. You can find all sorts of examples of people doing what I would consider "gross abuse of the weapon," and still getting a positive response from the company. It's hard to argue with that.

Bottom-line: Cold Steel over-hypes a product that may be of inconsistent quality, but they will stand behind it and try to make you happy. Whatever my opinion of the product, I find it hard to hate a company that does that.

Ouch, that was long.
 
Martini, you don't happen to live in colorado do you? and yes I agree with what you said. Very eloquent and well thought out.
 
dugurowngrave or whatever, why then do so many people hate cs but not all the others?

lies- "the worlds stongest and sharpest knives"

"cold steel"(some of mine came quite warm)

"The blade is expertly crafted from the finest premium stainless steel"

"Because they are as tough as nails and will cut like a chain saw! Every facet of their construction has been over engineered to make them as strong, durable and effective as humanly possible.'

'not only will you have a finely crafted folder; you’ll also have bragging rights that will last for years."(they must have forgot to put them in the box if they werent lying, there were no new bragging rights with the knife,maybe heinne stole them)

why dont people hate spyderco and benchmade. doesnt it upset you that theyre the biggest bragging, cussing company out there who charge high prices for alot of theye knives eg black sable etc but yet thyre one of the only big knife companies who you cant buy a cpm-s30v,154cm or vg10(d2,a2,bg42,ats34 etc) blade from.

what i mean is that they charge alot for the product, dont use even good materials and then try telling other makers that theyre crap.

fair enough if they just kept themselves to themselves but theyre a pile of turd shouting theyre own praises. if you dont keep up with the market, sellfor twice its usual price you cant then get up on your soap box, tell everyone thyre rubbish and then expect respect from the knife industry.

dug, you should see enough reasons for them to have lost respect, except that most people know some of thyre stuff is ok and move on. as a knife collector and buissness owner you shouldnt unconditionally try sticking up for a company thats hads the history and present it does.thats going against decent values.

r u maybe saying that really theyre good guys and altough they do what they do its all done unintentionally. that theyre oblivious to it andr unaware of theyre ways?and should be pitied not hated?
 
DngrRuss1 said:
Semantics, not a lie.

What LT was referring to is the rash of knives that have SWAT, or Recon, or whatever emblazoned on them just to sell them. These knives are usually of substandard quality and rely on their tough-guy appearance and logo to sell product rather than quality and usefullness. The issue LT and CS has with those products is that they use the name of military or law enforcement units to mislead the public to think that they are tougher than they are or that they might be used by said units.

I heard a story from a knife seller where he said, "if you want to sell knives to cops or wannabes, just put 'police' on the blade. Quality doesn't matter, they want the name." I am paraphrasing and he was not referring to the Spyderco Police model(s) for the simple fact that they are a quaity product. Look at the junk offered on the late night Knife Show on home shopping and you can see what LT was referring to.

Stating that the above items are "best selling" to the military is not a lie, neither is it "using" the military to sell product. It is a fact pulled from the military distributors and their sales records. How is that either wrong or misleading? CS couldn't and wouldn't put such in print without facts to back them up.

The Special Forces Shovel is a decades old design and was used by Russian Special Forces. LT didn't create a new and completely different shovel of substandard quality and then call it a Special Forces shovel. Again, where is the lie?

Military Classic- the original Randall was designed for and used by the military. Where is the lie?

Recon 1 and Recon Tanto- certainly not substandard knives. Now the haters may accuse me of arguing semantics here, but while these items have a military sounding name, they can stand up to the punishment they were designed for and do their jobs very well. The name doesn't just sell the knives, the quality does. The Recon Tanto has been in the CS line for many years and is on of the staples of all their products. So I don't see this as a lie or misleading.

Again, anybody thinks that LT and CS is lying- call them, write them, go to the CS Challenge and confront them. They will back up their statements- will you?
Click to expand...

DngrRuss1,

I do appreciate your loyalty and the strength you have in your convictions, but I get the feeling you aren't accepting what was actually stated in print by LT : (In the fall, 2003 “Riposte,” published in Cold Steel’s “Special Projects” catalog)
"No one loves our men and women in uniform more than Cold Steel. That’s why, over the last 23 years, we have tried to honor them by never trying to profit by associating our knives with any branch of the service or special units like the Navy SEAL’s or the Army’s Delta Force.”

Nowhere in that statement by LT does he say what you are trying to imply he did! He did not say, "knives that have SWAT, or Recon, or whatever emblazoned on them." He did not say anything about knives having "a military sounding name." He did not say anything about knives of "substandard quality." What he did say was that CS was "never trying to profit by associating our knives with any branch of the service or special units like the Navy SEAL’s."

If that statement were true, why would it be necessary to include in the "More Proof" & "Solid Proof" videos/dvds that the SRK is issued to Navy SEAL's attending BUD/S training? Why bother mentioning the fact that the Navy SEAL's like & use the CS Kukris? Or maybe you don't think that, by making that statement, CS is "associating" one of their "knives with any branch of the service or special units like the Navy SEAL’s." Is that the case, DngrRuss1? Do you really not see the association as part of the sales pitch?

I am not saying that other knife companies don't blatantly associate their knives with the military or special units thereof for a profit, but I have yet to find one who so blatantly and hypocritically states, in print, that they never do that sort of thing. That is one of my biggest issues with CS.


Best wishes,
3G
 
DANTHEMAN123 said:
lies- "the worlds stongest and sharpest knives"

"cold steel"(some of mine came quite warm)

"The blade is expertly crafted from the finest premium stainless steel"

"Because they are as tough as nails and will cut like a chain saw! Every facet of their construction has been over engineered to make them as strong, durable and effective as humanly possible.'

'not only will you have a finely crafted folder; you’ll also have bragging rights that will last for years."(they must have forgot to put them in the box if they werent lying, there were no new bragging rights with the knife,maybe heinne stole them)

why dont people hate spyderco and benchmade. doesnt it upset you that theyre the biggest bragging, cussing company out there who charge high prices for alot of theye knives eg black sable etc but yet thyre one of the only big knife companies who you cant buy a cpm-s30v,154cm or vg10(d2,a2,bg42,ats34 etc) blade from.
Click to expand...


Have you ever heard of "Marketing?"

While CS has some issues with some of their products, they also have quite a few that aren't as bad as you claim.

Welcome to the world of high volume, low cost production.

You need to take a chill pill ! ;)
 
3Guardsmen said:
Do you really not see the association as part of the sales pitch?
Click to expand...

I see the logic of what you are saying and understand why you take the position you do. I still think that this is an argument of semantics though.
 
In response to bigbcustom, no, I'm not from Colorado. Been up there once; loved the scenery, but missed the oxygen.

As to the bit about CS profitting from associating their knives with the military, I don't think anything conclusive can be said on this. Without knowing exactly what LT was thinking of when he made his statement, I can't really say whether or not he is breaking his own rule.

What he does do:
Acknowledge that our armed forces provide good professional testimony of his products. I think most people would consider this fair play.

What he does not do:
Intentionally mislabel products to give the impression that they are used by professional soldiers when they are not. I think most people would consider this very bad form.

If LT had said that he never took advantage of any branch of service, then it would be an open-and-shut case to me. But if you take his statements at their most literal, he most definitely is associating his products with specific branches of service in a way that is likely (and usually designed) to generate revenue. I try not to jump to conclusions, so I can't say either way based on the evidence I'm seeing.
 
DngrRuss1 said:
I see the logic of what you are saying and understand why you take the position you do. I still think that this is an argument of semantics though.
Click to expand...

Fair enough.:)

Best wishes,
3G
 
Well, i have heard of marketing, and i know a bit about hype. And i know a few more things. I know that i brought a CS to Iraq, and it failed me! Period, end of story, no excuses, no 'oh let them fix it', forget it. (they never returned my email either) That pos Recon Tanto is not fit to carry into combat. You might find a good use for it when your life isn't on the line, but if you NEED to cut something, if cutting that thing could save your life (a seatbelt, not that i wear them, for instance) then the last thing you will think before you die is that you should have shelled out a few more bucks for a real knife that holds an edge. I'm going to take it back to the states for one reason. The reason is so that insurgents dont fine a dull blade and use it against US forces. Once i get that knife (term used loosely, knives actually cut 550 cord) back stateside, its going in the garbage. And the same goes for anything else i have with a CS label on it! I can't depend on it when it counts, and i wont own it much longer. Semantics or lies/advertising or BS'ing, doesnt matter, its an inferior product despite the price.
 
I can't imagine a Recon Tanto not cutting 550 cord. Also, no one should judge a knife (much less an entire line of knives) based on a quantity of one. Some people do that, but I've never considered it fair. In the gun world, I've had bad pistols that weren't representative of others I had seen and fired.

If someone said, "Hey, I had three of them and all three were bad," that's another thing, but first I'd put a wicked sharp edge on the Recon and then see how it cut. As to Thompson's enthusiasm, I've never based my purchases on his abuse of knives. I've been happy with a number of Cold Steel knives, especially their Voyagers and Vasqueros, and that's what I judge them on.
 
like what confederate said, it really depends on the production line I think... I have the Gunsite folder and a Voyager, confederate claims he's happy with the voyager, I had to take it back the first time cuz the blade went really dull after I came back from camping (mainly used it for cutting up woods and stuff like that), but cs quickly replaced it anyway. My Gunsite folder has put up for few years now, this one I can say proud to be made in my country :p ha.

I mean hey, someone said you shouldn't compare prices with $300 Busse knife with the cs $40 one... ur right, but there's also a fact that Busse is a smaller(not saying that in a bad way, they do make excellent knives:thumbup: ) company compared to mass production based CS, and I'm sure Busse can spend a lot more time on perfecting their knives imo...

neverthless, a consumer should well research before they buy something, and not always intake completely whatever the company claims... I'm sure lot of us here has had that experience with not just knives but everything else that's on the market today. Happy kniving!
 
I just mailed my knife off to Cold Steel last Saturday. They had better send me a new one or all hells gonna break loose.
 
KyleTuck said:
I just mailed my knife off to Cold Steel last Saturday. They had better send me a new one or all hells gonna break loose.
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<> Go gettum tiger~:thumbup: :D

<> Kyle, please let us know how they respond and how they treat you on this return. I am interested to see how the customer service end of the firm relates to there customers problems.

Thanks & Good Luck!
 
I will be sure to let you and the others know. I will post it on this page. And thanks for you care and support.
 
Redhat said:
Mr Wilburn,

How did it fail you and what are you planning to replace it with?
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This thing failed to keep an edge, any edge at all. Perhaps some of their knives come sharp. I thought mine was sharp for about 1 week. Like i have said in another post, it was not used, definately not heavily used or moderately used. I needed a knife that i could take out on patrol in Iraq, and if need be use in self defense or as a means of egress from a vehicle. While this knife is great for stabbing through anything (I have started to test that ability with it as of late), it fails the cutting test. It seriously has one crappy edge. My plans on replacing it are a Ka-Bar, or perhaps a 6 or 7 inch Benchmade fixed blade. Nothing but good things to say about either of those knife companies. But first impressions with a knife company mean alot to me. And CS failed in that respect as well. They provided me with a poor quality knife, for a reasonable price. And their company wont recieve any more of my money, or any of my recommendations to other soldiers/hunters/anyone in general. I try not to judge a brand by one bad experience, but this time...i will. I had maybe used it once, and could run my hand down the edge without fear of cutting myself. And this is supposed to be a combat knife? I have a butter knife, no lie!, that is about 4 times sharper than that recon tanto, and i bought it at walmart. One bit i would like ot add here, this is getting kinda long, is that i have a CS spike, tanto blade, and that thing is sharp as all get out, and keeps an edge well. Its just got a better geometry to it, and better steel, i think.
 
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