EDC Work or Weapon?

[stabman]

How about a work weapon?
Today at work I used my Benchmade Gravitator to "kill" the plastic wrapping off the box of expensive Christmas chocolates.
It was a close call...whew!!! (that stupid plastic wrap was actually annoyingly difficult to get off without a knife)

 

[Poez]

Knives make very poor weapon. Have to have proper training and skills, range very limited, difficult if not impossible to control/limit the damage... Crap
The worst choice ever.

 

[stabman]

Knives make very poor weapon. Have to have proper training and skills, range very limited, difficult if not impossible to control/limit the damage... Crap!

Meh, there's worse weapons, and there's better weapons.
As for needing training, the girl who bought her knife because it matched her purse did okay...

Refusing to be robbed by 2 men, woman fights back
By Trevor Wilhelm, The Windsor Star, September 18, 2009
WINDSOR, Ont. -- They hit her, they knocked her down, but Melissa Codling wasn’t going to be a victim.
When two men ambushed Codling Wednesday night as she walked alone near Victoria Avenue, she fought back. They wanted her purse and iPod. She had other plans.
“He’s not going to rob me, that’s all I kept thinking, all I was feeling,” said Codling, 21. “I’m not going to be a victim. It’s not going to be me. You hear about people that are victims of crime and all I was thinking was I’m not going to be that person.”
Police said the attack appears to have been a crime of opportunity.
“These guys happen to be lurking around the area, they see her walking by herself and next thing you know they jump her,” said Sgt. Brett Corey.
He said struggling against the attackers was the right thing to do.
“Do everything you can do,” said Corey. “Scream, yell, fight, draw attention to yourself. She was obviously able to break free and call us.”
He added you can help protect yourself by walking in pairs and sticking to well-lit, well-travelled areas when possible.
Codling was walking down Pelissier Street toward her mom’s place after getting off the bus at Ouellette Avenue and Shepherd Street around 9 p.m. She was headed toward Tecumseh Road while scrolling through songs on her iPod.
There was a guy leaning on a fence near a church at Tecumseh and Victoria Avenue.
“Really staring at me, giving me the creeps,” said Codling.
She immediately thought of her pocket knife, which she bought because it matched her purse. Codling slipped it into her sleeve and cut through the parking lot behind the church.
“The first male starts moving really fast toward me,” said Codling.
She didn’t panic, she didn’t scream. She ignored the flip-flops on her feet making it hard to run. Codling just bolted.
“It was total tunnel vision,” she said. “All I could see was me going forward. I wasn’t thinking about anything else.”
But she didn’t see the other guy coming. Codling turned back to see where her pursuer was, unaware a second man was hiding, waiting to strike.
“He jumped out and I hit him like it was a brick wall,” said Codling.
She’s not sure where he came from. He might have been hiding behind a church wall that jutted out.
“I walk through there all the time,” said Codling. “When I do I always kind of lean sideways to look because you can see a shadow. But I was dealing with the guy behind me. I didn’t have time to check around. I didn’t think he had a buddy waiting in the dark to creep out on me.”
She ploughed into him and backed up, staggering. Her attackers were relentless.
“The guy behind me was screaming, ‘grab that bitch’s iPod, grab that bitch’s purse,’” said Codling. “Then the second male pushed me.”
She slipped out of her flip-flops and tumbled to the pavement. One of the men climbed on her chest to hold her down.
For the first time, she felt panic. Codling was becoming a victim. It made her angry. She told herself she was strong. She mustered her courage.
“I started swinging my knife around, just trying to put distance between me and them,” said Codling. “I think I got the second male because he went ‘aahh’ and moved back. I was going every which way with this thing. They backed up away from me.”
She saw her opportunity.
“I got up and I ran.”
Codling didn’t stop running — still clutching her purse and iPod — until she got to her mother’s house.
“I was fine until I walked in the door and I saw my mom,” said Codling. “Then all the emotion started coming. I started crying. I just needed a minute to understand what had just friggin’ happened. Then I had a couple cigarettes, told her what happened.”
Police said the one of the attackers was white, bald, clean shaven and 25 to 30 years old. He was about 180 pounds, five foot seven with a medium build and wore a black hoodie, black pants and was clean shaven.
The other man was also white, about 30 years old and six feet tall with a muscular build. He was bald, clean shaven, and wore a tight, long-sleeved black shirt and dark pants.
Police ask anyone with information to call their investigations branch at 519-255-6700 ext. 4830 or Crime Stoppers at 519-258-TIPS (8477).

Still, my knife gets used for work related things, as I don't get mugged (except for that one idiot who tried mugging me without a weapon; I just laughed and shoved him out of the way).

 

[Doubledee]

To all those that are living here in the United States with a different cultural, belief, system, etc. as opposed to third world cess pools around the world, ergo the enlightened post by TS404 and to all those who think that it is common or a commoness occurrence for someone to be stabbed to death here in the united states and stabman I can get the Canda numbers if you want and there low too I've seen them this morning as a matter of FACT.

The last number I could get for the United States was 2008 was a total number of stabbing deaths of 1,897, divided by the population at the time estimated at 325,000,000 equals 0.00001 of one percent, WOW your so right stabman that percentage rate makes stabbing deaths VERY COMMON here in the united states. Please sir since your definition of common is represented by 0.00001 of one percent provided me with your definition of uncommon.

What I was trying to say and has been said by LEO and Military alike before that there is a big difference between shooting someone from a distance or killing someone up close and personal with a knife or ones bare hands and the mental capacity to do so SOBER and not under the influence of drugs (legal or illegal), alcohol, etc. is vastly different than killing someone with a gun which allows you distance both physically and mentally. The way I heard it explained it with shooting from a distance is more like a video game, it allows for a certain degree of detachment from the situation, but with a knife, club, bat, fist, etc. your close and it changes things entirely. Also worth noting is that the rate of stabbing deaths in the United States is now lower than it was in 1965, just a side bar.

You even reference snot nosed teenagers, who by the way or still children and have not matured in their ability to think rationally, logically, etc. as compared to a adult human being. Kids do stuff all the time that are in very poor judgement because they have yet to learn certain things. I could go on but I think you get where I'm going with this, if you think for one minute that out of 325,000,000 thats three hundred and twenty-five million that 1,897 of anything out of that number is common, then there is no point continuing this conversation.

The problem with this statistic is its only knife DEATHS... What about situations like the Spyderco story earlier in this thread where the attacker was only wounded and then caught 3 days later? I bet the number of knife injuries related to a crime is much higher for one or both parties involved...

I carry my Leatherman and a small 1"-2" blade plus something in the 3'-5" range primarily as tools the small one is sheeple friendly and the large one for real cutting tasks... The blades on the Leatherman are what gets use when someone asks to use a knife...

For SD purposes id rather use my pistol because up close knife is going to be messy and dangerous with less than guaranteed results but as a last result id use the knife rather than giving up...

 

[stabman]

The problem with this statistic is its only knife DEATHS...

Exactly.
I don't know where people get the idea that you have to kill people to defend yourself.
It's often MUCH better legally and morally if you can avoid killing people.

 

[Poez]

Exactly.
I don't know where people get the idea that you have to kill people to defend yourself.
It's often MUCH better legally and morally if you can avoid killing people.

Exactly my point - one of the things why knife is essentially crap weapon. Distance is short, stopping effect is negligible compared to many other choices, pressure on - particularly if you do not have practice and control... Then it is all about luck - that is not good at all.
Sorry about that. Should not have posted in this thread at all - it is all be repeated again and again... Some people just come here to discuss this kind of issue. It will never stop - thanks to movies and media...

 

[ThePharce]

Exactly.
I don't know where people get the idea that you have to kill people to defend yourself.
It's often MUCH better legally and morally if you can avoid killing people.

Morally? Sure. Legally? Hell no. Dead people cannot testify against you.

 

[Warp]

Morally? Sure. Legally? Hell no. Dead people cannot testify against you.

This line of thought is ridiculous. No, check that, it's beyond ridiculous.

Please stop and think.

 

[ThePharce]

This line of thought is ridiculous. No, check that, it's beyond ridiculous.

Please stop and think.

So ridiculous that it's taught in Tennessee carry permit classes. If you are attacked by someone and after the fight only you are left alive; then there is only one story to tell. That is why, in those permit classes, you are taught that if you are going to discharge your weapon in self defense, your intent had better be to kill, not wound, your assailant.

 

[emperorwang]

Both.

I carry a fixed blade on my weak side primarily for weapon retention/backup to my strong side firearm.

In addition I carry a folder (usually, but not always, a SAK) for utility.

 

[Ripthejacker]

My EDC knife is strictly for work/utility. I carry a handgun as a self defense weapon. God forbid I have to use a folder as a weapon.

 

[Noctis3880]

So ridiculous that it's taught in Tennessee carry permit classes. If you are attacked by someone and after the fight only you are left alive; then there is only one story to tell. That is why, in those permit classes, you are taught that if you are going to discharge your weapon in self defense, your intent had better be to kill, not wound, your assailant.

Are those permit classes taught by cops? Because I find it hard to believe that a cop would encourage killing an assailant for that specific reason. I'm usually told that the reason why you shoot for center mass is because most people aren't expert marksman with countless hours of practice shooting at a small moving target, and so shooting to wound is a waste of bullets and will get you killed.

With a knife it'll be a bit different as stabbing anywhere with any effectiveness will be much like shooting, at center mass. That requires one to be at bad breath distances. Whereas wildly slashing at arms length can hit any limb that the attacker wasn't quick enough to pull back and cripple it. So I would think wounding would be easier than killing. Whereas with a firearm killing is easier than wounding.

 

[santino]

Only a weapon as a last resort for if im outmanned or out stengthed and in immediate danger and i cant run or use fists, if some punk my age (16 years old) comes up to me im much stronger il use my fists or run (this happens alot with robberies in my area) so a WEAPON, but im obliged by the province of ontario to say that it is a TOOL for work which does apply as ive worked construction and in the back of a restaurant with boxes and stuff

-GTA, ONTARIO

 

[ThePharce]

Are those permit classes taught by cops? Because I find it hard to believe that a cop would encourage killing an assailant for that specific reason. I'm usually told that the reason why you shoot for center mass is because most people aren't expert marksman with countless hours of practice shooting at a small moving target, and so shooting to wound is a waste of bullets and will get you killed.

With a knife it'll be a bit different as stabbing anywhere with any effectiveness will be much like shooting, at center mass. That requires one to be at bad breath distances. Whereas wildly slashing at arms length can hit any limb that the attacker wasn't quick enough to pull back and cripple it. So I would think wounding would be easier than killing. Whereas with a firearm killing is easier than wounding.

Less than half of gunshot wounds are fatal, so killing with a handgun, while easier than a knife , still isn't that easy.

I know the reason given by the carry permit instructors might sound barbaric. However, most of those on this board live in the US....where a man broke into someone's house, cut himself on a kitchen knife in their house, and won a judgement against his VICTIMS. Our legal system is broken. Victim's rights are now an afterthought here.

I am a very gentle and peaceful person by nature. I maintain a 'live and let live' philosophy. However, if you attack me or my family and intend on doing harm; I am going to end you. Period.

I will need counseling. I will be messed up emotionally for a long time since it goes against my nature. Nevertheless, I'll protect myself and my family at all cost.

 

[BBW]

So ridiculous that it's taught in Tennessee carry permit classes. If you are attacked by someone and after the fight only you are left alive; then there is only one story to tell. That is why, in those permit classes, you are taught that if you are going to discharge your weapon in self defense, your intent had better be to kill, not wound, your assailant.

That is retarded. Have you heard about forensics? give a guy a double tap in the back of the neck and I'll assure you that even if he's not talking anymore, you are going to jail.
On the other hand NOBODY teaches you to KILL; you shoot to STOP THE AGGRESSION and IF and only IF that means the assailant needs to die so beat it.
Once the aggression stops you cannot keep shooting since its not self defense.
think and read (from good sources)

 

[ThePharce]

That is retarded. Have you heard about forensics? give a guy a double tap in the back of the neck and I'll assure you that even if he's not talking anymore, you are going to jail.
On the other hand NOBODY teaches you to KILL; you shoot to STOP THE AGGRESSION and IF and only IF that means the assailant needs to die so beat it.
Once the aggression stops you cannot keep shooting since its not self defense.
think and read (from good sources)

I'm not talking about double tapping someone in the back of the head. I fail to see how that could even be construed from my post.

I think you are misconstruing the point. The point is that if it appears that you were attempting to wound or maim your assailant, you are FAR more likely to find yourself on the wrong end of the law than if you actually kill the attacker. I'm not talking about emptying 15 rounds into someone......though if they're dead the two thing my LEO buddies have taught me to say are 'he just kept coming' and 'I was scared for my life'. You say you're supposed to stop the aggression. That's true. You just aren't supposed to pop someone in the knee to do it. Maybe it's different in other states. I doubt it.

 

[Poez]

I have heard that kind of discussion on radio another day - saying that killing is much more cheaper at the end than wounding. So it was on radio - must be true.
What follows probably is exactly not necessarily that you should finish off somebody after he has fallen. But it you have defended yourself with gun or a knife and the assailant has survived to tell his story - you may be in more trouble you could expect based on your common sense.

 

[Noctis3880]

Less than half of gunshot wounds are fatal, so killing with a handgun, while easier than a knife , still isn't that easy.

True, but having watched a video of a man stabbing his wife over 20 times in the course of a minute and watching her walk away afterwards, I still think the gun stands on top as far as lethality.

I know the reason given by the carry permit instructors might sound barbaric. However, most of those on this board live in the US....where a man broke into someone's house, cut himself on a kitchen knife in their house, and won a judgement against his VICTIMS. Our legal system is broken. Victim's rights are now an afterthought here.

Is that the exception or the rule? But having seen that one couple on TV get away with shoplifting due to the media coverage surrounding it, I'm not so sure about our legal system. Granted, they stole and ate a couple of sandwiches without paying, but it ultimately seemed like the law is not an absolute force punishing all those who break it and could be suspended on public opinion. The O.J. Simpson and Casey Anthony cases don't seem to show it in a good light either.

Actually I'm less concerned about the barbarism and more about legal consequences. Personally I feel society would benefit from not having to feed, cloth, and entertain career criminals. And if they're let out of prison anyways, better to have one less running around. Cheaper to put a bullet through their head and get over it. I feel those who threaten the lives of others have forfeited their own lives.

I am a very gentle and peaceful person by nature. I maintain a 'live and let live' philosophy. However, if you attack me or my family and intend on doing harm; I am going to end you. Period.

I will need counseling. I will be messed up emotionally for a long time since it goes against my nature. Nevertheless, I'll protect myself and my family at all cost.

Family is unquestionable, though the law seems to push for a "duty to retreat" if you're by yourself and outside your own home. The expectation is certainly understandable if you're being threatened by a fat guy with a knife who looks like he could be outrun by a glacier.

 

[Birdkiller]

When was the last time you were in a knife fight? When was the last time you used your knife as a utility tool? Should answer it. I could see carrying a "fighting" knife on you LBV, and also carrying a utility knife.

Now, in a pinch, heck yeah, my utility knife will gladly do weapons duty, so will my pen and my flashlight, etc. etc. For the vast majority, at least for those of us with our feat firmly planted on the ground, it's a tool first.

 

[Cypress Creek Knives]

I carry a small sebenza in my front right pocket and a benchmade osborne rift in my back left pocket. They are both used as tools first. Different knives for different tasks. Obviously the sebenza would be too small for a SD weapon but the rift could be used as one if need be. Running is by far the best option if you want to live.