EDC Work or Weapon?

A tool. I can't carry a firearm yet, so for a defensive tool I go with non lethal options like an ASP baton or my Comtech Stinger or Jaw Jacker. Sometimes I carry a tactical pen, but that is actually mainly for use as a pen, I just like the heavier feel of it.
 
My EDC knife is used as a tool. In a Self Defense situation I would use it as a weapon. A weapon of last resort.
 
Shotgun said:
I agree that if you have a justified shooting you're not going to go to jail for murder or manslaughter. You will however see the inside of a jail cell until the police can figure out what happened. The police don't come up to a fatal shooting, interview you, and then let you be on your merry way because you have a good story. You will be put into handcuffs and processed. If you don't believe that you're kidding yourself. An exception may be if you're a homeowner and the person who broke into your house has a long list of violent offenses on their record.
Click to expand...

I personally know of two cases where that didn't happen. One did go to the police station. However, he was never put into a cell, just questioned at someone's desk and released.

The sad thing is that I live in a city so violent that I know two people who have had to shoot someone to protect themselves. I have had to draw, but not shoot.
 
The problems with using a knife as a defensive weapon, especially a folding knife are: 1) it makes for a very short range weapon; 2) while it can cause massive damage it is not an instant off switch; and, 3) if it's a folding knife the blade can become unlocked as you struggle with your opponent (you are not supposed to put pressure on the back of the blade no matter what kind of lock it has). So it doesn't much matter whether you are up against a drunken bar fly or a martial artist, both of you are likely to end up shreded. The other guy gets to pound you with his weapon the entire time that you are fighting him with yours. It's the self defense equivalent of trying to win a game of Tic-Tac-Toe. You might be able to stop the other guy from stabbing you and walking away, but that doesn't mean that you will be walking away either.

This is fiction:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01NHcTM5IA4

In real life there is an excellent chance that Dundee would have been stabbed a few times as he reached for his knife, and a few times after that during the fight. But, that would have ended the movie too quickly.

n2s
 
Last edited:
A knife is a tool. Should be considered as such (especially if anyone asks). If you have it with you and you use it and it is solid made and ergonomic then yes, it could be used for defense. Anyone considering a knife as self defense only has no idea what they are talking about. Knife fighting is personal, dirty and participants likely will get cut (and badly). If you pull it out it is like your firearm....go straight to work and use it till they stop or you can get away.
 
Where does it say that a knife can't be a tool and a weapon at the same time? What is this "tool or weapon" crap?

Consider this: A knife is a tool that is used to cut things.

"Things" can be defined in many ways: Paper, food, people, etc...

"Weapon" implies instrument of harm. If I mean to destructively cut a person, then my knife becomes a weapon. While my knife is busy being a weapon, it is still fulfilling its function as a tool to cut things (in this case a person)

In many jurisdictions the definition of weapon (outside of firearms) depends on the intent of the user. If I decide to beat some poor shmuck to death with my phone, SHAZAM! My phone is now a weapon. Conversly while your knife (whatever knife that may be) is hanging out in your pocket or on your belt, it is busy being a tool. It is not a weapon until you remove it from your pocket, open it up, and stab some sucker in the ribs with it.
 
The major concern for me in using a knife for self defense would be the possibility of me cutting myself in the ensuing panic. I've cut myself plenty while doing mundane cutting tasks with zero stress. I'm not eager to put my knife to use in a situation where I trade control for power when I'm pumped with adrenaline and my hands are shaking(and I know they will).

That being said, I would pull the thing out if I'm convinced that I'll be dead or maimed in the next 5 seconds anyway.
 
No ammount of training will prepare you for using a knife on another person.
Anyone that says different is full of S$@%.
I usually don't post about this, but my home was broken into a few years back while myself, my wife and young son were home.
My knife was in reach, as loaded guns are not ever kept accessable due to a child running through the house.
I used it.
In the heat of the moment, in defense of family, you do not need to be "one bad ass SOB", because truthfully, I am not.
( I am a pretty scrappy guy with Martial Arts training, but that did not come into play at all in this situation... a gun in your wife's face will turn anyone to mush.)
I did not get cut, shot or hurt as many people seem to expect.
I did spend 6 hours talking to local LEO, and did ride to the police station for questioning, but never was arrested, and never charged.
Self defense, fully justified.
And you know what?...I still feel like S@#! about it. Probably never get over it.
Today I can say I carry for utility only, but that would be a lie.
I Carry equally.. for SD and utility.

I ALWAYS have at least one knife on me or withing arm's reach.
ALWAYS.


I hate thinking about that, so now I'm gonna sand some wood and try to rinse the memory back down the brain drain with some of Auggie B's finest.
 
Knifein said:
In my opinion civillians who stuff their pockets and belts to the max with multiple knives, firearms, and weapons are a bunch of ignorant, insecure, mall ninjas.
Click to expand...
People who think this way are naive and deluded into thinking that nothing bad could ever happen, or that if it does that the police will be there to save them. Certainly there's a difference between being prepared (even if only minimally so) and being paranoid, but either is preferable to being a willing victim. I don't feel "insecure" without the knife, but I definitely feel more secure with it. I don't carry my "weapon" knife to be a badass. I carry it because I know first-hand that bad shit can go down and the knife could be the difference between bad and being even worse. It's not paranoia, and it's not insecurity. It's merely preparedness.

Don't pretend that if you got jumped by 3 gangbangers and were getting the crap kicked out of you that you yourself wouldn't immediately think to go for your "tool" to defend yourself.
 
I always ask the people that are against carrying any type of self-protection, if they were being attacked by a person, or an animal that was trying to kill them, would they pick up a weapon, if it was within reach and use it? Or would you happily continue to be beat, or torn to death, in the name of your belief?
 
knives are great tools. my Grandy said, if you're in a fight and end up on the ground, there's always a stick or rock or brick for use. that is what God put it there for.
 
I've been carrying an Endura for about 20 years. I use it as a tool. I've noticed that many people consider it to be a scary weapon. Like many of you I've been around the block long enough to know it's a pretty small and pitiful weapon. If I wanted to carry a knife for a weapon, I'd pack something a little more effective. Around here you can legally carry a fixed blade. So one vote for EDC work. I don't mind though if other people look at the clip on my pocket and quietly move on to another target. ;)
 
Shorttime said:
Looking for people who have had to use a knife for SD is how I got to Bladeforums in the first place.

From what I've read from military, security, and LE, as well as regular guys,

1) Knives are very seldom carried for utility and weapon use.

2) They are even less often carried solely as weapons.

3) Even a knife which is pulled is almost never used.

4) When a knife is used, the results are brutal, even if both parties live.

Most "knife fights" are the result of alcohol augmenting poor judgment. One or more people go to jail, one or more people go to the cemetary.

I used to have this illusion of "knife as emergency SD tool". Then I went looking for people who have really been there. Now whatever I have in my pocket is there to cut things. Never people.
Click to expand...

Well said.

I have come to the same conclusion you have after 3+ years of research on this topic.

EDIT: If I were in law enforcement, I would definitely carry a knife to be used as a weapon and train to use it regularly. But I'm not, so I don't.
 
Knifein said:
That depends, do you carry them with defending yourself from an attack in mind everyday? Or do you actually carry them to actually use as tools everyday?
Click to expand...
I carry a knife daily for work, physically demanding work that is sometimes damaging to the edge of the knife. The knives I carry for work ONLY get carried for work. I work most every day, so the knife I carry for work gets carried for that purpose most often.

When I travel, I am not working. I am moving amongst people I don't know, in unfamiliar places, at sometimes odd hours. Then, I carry a knife for self defense, as well as a smaller knife, often a slipjoint, for any other purpose. So the answer to your question is, I carry knives for specific purposes. I carry a knife most of the time to use for work, but on occasion, for self defense ONLY.


A knife is always important to have since there are a lot of everyday tasks that require cutting. If you want to exercise your second amendment as an American and carry a fire arm be aware that you will be in a huge and I mean HUGE legal battle if you end up killing someone, in which you will most likely be sent to prison for murder or if you're lucky manslaughter. YES, EVEN IF IT WAS IN SELF DEFENSE! The same applies to a knife as well. Your best bet is to run away as soon as you see a situation escalating into a potential gun battle, or simply give your wallet if you are being mugged.
Click to expand...

I committed myself to not being a victim a long time ago. I won't put my fate, or the fate of my loved ones, in the hands of someone who has so little regard for his fellow man as to become a predator. I won't trust them to "just leave me alone" after robbing me, as I can't read minds and can't know what the ultimate purpose for the crime is. I am very familiar with the laws of self defense, I know what the consequences of using deadly force can be, legally, socially and psychologically. I also know that I am not a rabbit, and won't be easy food. I won't live in fear.

I would guess if they need a duffel bag then they are carrying some serious weaponry. So, yes absolutely a mall ninja, or a crazed maniac about to shoot up a place.
Click to expand...

I would guess first that they might just be traveling, and who are you to judge them?

Knives can be for work or for self defense, both equally legitimate uses. I don't judge someone for deciding not to be a victim.

Andy
 
MikeC said:
Gutting another man requires a very different kind of mental capacity that the average man can muster, your going to be close, close enough to hear him breath and see his eyes when the lights go dim. Very, very, very few people are gifted with the mental constitution required for such an exercise. .
Click to expand...

I beg to differ. That's not the case if you are living in Africa, http://www.genocidewatch.org/southafrica.html :(
 
stabman said:
The numbers of people who stab people to death seem to put the lie to this.
Even snot-nosed teenagers somehow manage to kill people with knives far too often.
It doesn't take any special uber toughness or anything, judging by the unfortunate commoness of it.
Click to expand...

To all those that are living here in the United States with a different cultural, belief, system, etc. as opposed to third world cess pools around the world, ergo the enlightened post by TS404 and to all those who think that it is common or a commoness occurrence for someone to be stabbed to death here in the united states and stabman I can get the Canda numbers if you want and there low too I've seen them this morning as a matter of FACT.

The last number I could get for the United States was 2008 was a total number of stabbing deaths of 1,897, divided by the population at the time estimated at 325,000,000 equals 0.00001 of one percent, WOW your so right stabman that percentage rate makes stabbing deaths VERY COMMON here in the united states. Please sir since your definition of common is represented by 0.00001 of one percent provided me with your definition of uncommon.

What I was trying to say and has been said by LEO and Military alike before that there is a big difference between shooting someone from a distance or killing someone up close and personal with a knife or ones bare hands and the mental capacity to do so SOBER and not under the influence of drugs (legal or illegal), alcohol, etc. is vastly different than killing someone with a gun which allows you distance both physically and mentally. The way I heard it explained it with shooting from a distance is more like a video game, it allows for a certain degree of detachment from the situation, but with a knife, club, bat, fist, etc. your close and it changes things entirely. Also worth noting is that the rate of stabbing deaths in the United States is now lower than it was in 1965, just a side bar.

You even reference snot nosed teenagers, who by the way or still children and have not matured in their ability to think rationally, logically, etc. as compared to a adult human being. Kids do stuff all the time that are in very poor judgement because they have yet to learn certain things. I could go on but I think you get where I'm going with this, if you think for one minute that out of 325,000,000 thats three hundred and twenty-five million that 1,897 of anything out of that number is common, then there is no point continuing this conversation.
 
MikeC said:
and stabman I can get the Canda numbers if you want
Click to expand...

Well, in the magical realm of Canda, people ride unicorns to work and eat rainbows.

In CANADA, there are places, such as Edmonton and Winnipeg especially, where stabbings are unfortunately common...especially given that many violent occurrences do not get reported, or get reported as "I was in the kitchen and I fell on my knife." (people up to no good often try to cover their butt)

I am not saying carrying a knife for a weapon is the best idea in the history of mankind, but there is no real validity to many of the claims people make about how hard it is to use them for violent purposes...unfortunately.

The guy responsible for Chatham's first (and only) triple murder, Jason Cofell, was a guy I knew from my grade 9 drafting class; that's right, grade 9. He was a nerdy, wimpy Dungeon and Dragons nerd who talked a bunch of smack and couldn't fight worth a damn. Didn't stop him from doing evil with great ease. May he burn in hell.
 
Last edited:
MikeC said:
if you think for one minute that out of 325,000,000 thats three hundred and twenty-five million that 1,897 of anything out of that number is common, then there is no point continuing this conversation.
Click to expand...
Out of 300 million, not many folks shoot each other enough to be considered common, but you don't seem to be going on about the uselessness of guns; why is that?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top