Enforced ZT MAP, will you give Benchmade a second look?

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whp said:
Which is why most of my knife purchases over the couple of years have been from Spyderco.
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So when Spyderco jumps on the RPM bandwagon who are you/we going to purchase knives from? Thats the whole point of this thread, in that we were all mad at Benchmade for doing what they did while at the same time praising KAI/ZT. Granted, BM has done little to their product lines to excite consumers (I would like to see something without an AXIS lock) whereas ZT still has some knives that are probably still undervalued at their current MAP (550, 801).
 
RevDevil said:
Nobody smack talk the 0350 or 0200. ;)
They are good knives.
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Sadly, these models will likely suffer the most from higher effective prices online. Throw the 0300 into that group too. I am willing to speculate that certain Benchmade designs sales took a hit last year (551,556,707,710) for the same reason.
 
Yep, nothing out there with reputations for reliability better than Jaguar or Land Rover. :rolleyes:
 
Tripton said:
Yep, nothing out there with reputations for reliability better than Jaguar or Land Rover. :rolleyes:
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^^^This is funny, but very true as well!

Edited to add...Indeed, they are famous for having very poor reliability. Just wanted to avoid any confusion.
 
Tripton said:
Yep, nothing out there with reputations for reliability better than Jaguar or Land Rover. :rolleyes:
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Well from what I've read jaguar has gone a long way to improve reliability with their cars in recent years. Land rover still hovers around the bottom.
 
EDCanAdamas said:
So when Spyderco jumps on the RPM bandwagon who are you/we going to purchase knives from? Thats the whole point of this thread, in that we were all mad at Benchmade for doing what they did while at the same time praising KAI/ZT. Granted, BM has done little to their product lines to excite consumers (I would like to see something without an AXIS lock) whereas ZT still has some knives that are probably still undervalued at their current MAP (550, 801).
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I trust Spyderco to do the right thing.
 
BM and ZT has had MAP pricing for as long as I remember, they just havent enforced it in this way until recently. Will Spyderco jump into the bandwagon like BM and ZT fans claim? I dont know, they dont even have MAP in place and I honestly doubt they change that anytime soon. It's a much much smaller company than ZT and even BM, they'll feel the backlash harder.
 
Scurvy092 said:
I will say that the Benchmade policy has SERIOUSLY put the balance back on the side of the B&M stores . . .
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. . . assuming, of course, that people who wouldn't buy Benchmades at B&M stores because they were too expensive will suddenly do so now that Internet pricing has risen to the same level of unacceptability.

Benchmade and others can build as strong a price policy foundation as they like. But if they set it down on quicksand, it will sink anyway.
 
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I shop for knives by comparing prices. If I can't afford it, I don't need it no matter how much I might want it. I'm retired and I don't have an unlimited supply of disposable income so prices matter to me more than to many on this forum.

But, to the original question. My answer is no. There are only a few ZT models that I don't already have that I would like to have but there are zero current Benchmade models that interest me that I don't already have.
 
I'm in the same boat you are with respect to Benchmade. I already have all the models I'm interested in. And ZT makes it real easy for me to say no because they don't tend to make knives that suit my needs. ZT's and Benchmade's pricing policies are just one more nail in their coffins as far as I'm concerned.
 
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Except I, for one, always do an opportunity cost calculation in my head before I lay down my dollars. The question is whether there's another knife out there that's better for the money in my personal estimation than the one I'm considering buying. If there is, I slow down long enough to do my homework before I part with my hard-earned cash. YMMV.
 
JarrodS said:
Yes, you misunderstood, and apparently misunderstand the issue many have with MAP. It's not about what I'm willing to pay, it's about what retailers are willing (but not allowed) to list them for. I.e. it destroys competition. We've had antitrust laws against this sort of manipulation for decades. Until recently, that is.

FYI, I've purchased 7 Benchmade knives since MAP enforcement. But I never once paid MAP.
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Yes, actually that is all this is about. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. You are free to buy what ever you like just as Benchmade, ZT, or whom ever is free to charge whatever they like and sell only to dealers who will follow their pricing guide. Pretty damn simple really.
 
True. And pretty damn deadly for manufacturers who price their goods higher than people are willing to pay for them. Have Benchmade and ZT done that? Time will tell. But from the perspective of my wallet, they have.

I didn't say living with an opportunity cost calculator in my head was easy. But it's led me to the right decision more often than not.
 
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Maybe it's a good thing, maybe the rabid fans will branch out and look at other stuff. One can always shop here, god knows the folders for sale section has a daily plethora of ZT's for sale at below MAP. Not like that will ever change.
 
bld522 said:
True. And pretty damn deadly for manufacturers who price their goods higher than people are willing to pay for them. Have Benchmade and ZT done that? Time will tell. But from the perspective of my wallet, they have.

I didn't say living with an opportunity cost calculator in my head was easy. But it's led me to the right decision more often than not.
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My goodness it really is that simple! If only more people could have an opportunity cost calculator in their head. Heck, I'd just be happy if they had a little common sense!
 
crom said:
Maybe it's a good thing, maybe the rabid fans will branch out and look at other stuff. One can always shop here, god knows the folders for sale section has a daily plethora of ZT's for sale at below MAP. Not like that will ever change.
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True, the exchange is a great place to shop. I haven't purchased a knife new from a dealer in quite some time that I can recall. That said, the end user prices (I just made up a new dumb term for pricing! EUPs!) will eventually trickle down to the used market. I know I have sold BMs for more than I would have been able to pre the EUP hike (there's that term again, let's hope it catches on!)
 
craytab said:
My goodness it really is that simple! If only more people could have an opportunity cost calculator in their head. Heck, I'd just be happy if they had a little common sense!
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It's actually pretty simple in practice. The first thing folks have to do is learn how to count to 10. :)
 
bld522 said:
. . . assuming, of course, that people who wouldn't buy Benchmades at B&M stores because they were too expensive will suddenly do so now that Internet pricing has risen to the same level of unacceptability.

Benchmade and others can build as strong a price policy foundation as they like. But if they set it down on quicksand, it will sink anyway.
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Clearly you didn't read the rest of the post...
 
craytab said:
Yes, actually that is all this is about. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. You are free to buy what ever you like just as Benchmade, ZT, or whom ever is free to charge whatever they like and sell only to dealers who will follow their pricing guide. Pretty damn simple really.
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That's collusion.

This thought experiment points to the flaw in the "if you don't like price fixing, then don't buy it" logic: What if we were talking about groceries? What am I willing to pay for food, to feed my family? Is collusion OK in that case, just because people would be willing to pay up to and including everything they make to feed themselves? No of course not.

The free market system works, and must be allowed to work. Collusion/MAP/ERP interfere with the market system by limiting opportunities for competition. I am strongly opposed to it and cannot believe the cavalier attitude some display here about it. The market should find the price, period. If you don't think that, then I question your commitment to capitalism and the concept of equal opportunity. It's as simple as that.
 
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